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post #131 of 185 Old 01-13-2016
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Re: Serious attack on cruisers in Haiti - Injuries

I've known many generals and admirals and not a single one of them wants war. Ever. This isn't the middle ages anymore.

Dismiss their input at your own peril. They are typically very good at what they do. Humans too, but still very good.


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post #132 of 185 Old 01-13-2016
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Re: Serious attack on cruisers in Haiti - Injuries

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Take your head out of the sand. He's not saying every square inch of the Caribbean and I highly doubt he's fabricating. This stuff is happening all over, why would you not believe it could happen in certain places in the Caribbean?
A very interesting discussion, but how exactly do you think it relates to cruisers?
Attacks could be launched against airplanes, cruise ships or even the mega yachts, but what benefit would a terrorist attack against a couple of private yachts mean to a terrorist cause?
It probably wouldn't even make the nightly news. As far as I know, even the horrendous attack on Rainbow in Union didn't get much, if any, attention outside the cruising community.
As I said, it's interesting, but kinda like yelling 'shark' when it is a dolphin at a busy beach, to most of us out cruising.

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post #133 of 185 Old 01-13-2016
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Re: Serious attack on cruisers in Haiti - Injuries

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A very interesting discussion, but how exactly do you think it relates to cruisers?
Attacks could be launched against airplanes, cruise ships or even the mega yachts, but what benefit would a terrorist attack against a couple of private yachts mean to a terrorist cause?
It probably wouldn't even make the nightly news. As far as I know, even the horrendous attack on Rainbow in Union didn't get much, if any, attention outside the cruising community.
As I said, it's interesting, but kinda like yelling 'shark' when it is a dolphin at a busy beach, to most of us out cruising.
One scenario everyone has overlooked but the U.S. Caribbean Command General has not and neither has the NSA or Immigration department is that many of these pirated vessels can be a source of these terrorists coming into our shores and causing untold terror and destruction unless they are intercepted by our Coast Guard. It's a big ocean and many open shores along the continental U.S. for them to infiltrate during night hours... So yes the general has concerns since many of these countries besides Puerto Rico (which shares data with the military and government due to its Commonwealth status) do not have the means or budget to share information with the U.S. as mentioned in the article.
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Re: Serious attack on cruisers in Haiti - Injuries

It's not just the Coast Guard, but the Navy has several interdiction boats in the Caribbean. Between smugglers and pirates (which are often one in the same) they were always busy.

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Re: Serious attack on cruisers in Haiti - Injuries

Capta I think in some ways it does relate. Fear is an excellent motivator and some political parties in USA like to profess terrorism as a huge threat to our safety. Just like some cruisers like to say pirates are a huge risk to our safety. If a person is sailing in certain areas the risk increases significantly but are still very low. The risk of terrorism to US citizens is virtually 0. Approximately 3500 U.S. citizens have died from terrorist attacks world wide in the last 20 years and most on one day. If I am attempting to reduce harm to the citizens of a country and I have limited resources I should quantify actual risks and allocate my limited money and labor to mitigate significant risk first. How many cruisers sailing the Caribbean die from heart attacks, skin cancer, drowning, influenza, mosquito transmitted disease and car accidents compared to pirates? What amount of time and resource should a captain allocate to the risk of death or injury due to piracy (petty theft/ strong arm theft on boats) cruising say the Bahamas. Quantify the true risk. We should be rational and quantify actual risks. The problem is that people are not rational they are rationalizers. If a captain takes a rifle, shot gun , hand gun etc the most significant risk is to the safety of captain and crew and innocent by standers. There are few situation where a gun will increase safety for anyone and many many more situation where it will significantly decrease safety. That is a fact rationalize all you want. The time, cost and effort spend traveling with guns on sailboats would be best spent on actually risk. Learn about weather routing, fire prevention, diesel/engine repair and maintenance, standing rigging inspection, learning to swim. etc etc etc. There is a whole lot of risk that are significantly more likely to affect the health and safety of crew then Pirates. Even capta where you are located and where you are cruising your risk of death or serious injury from pirates are very low compared to any number of other risk. Yes we should stick together and communicate where problems occur and have situational awareness of our surroundings but many folks take the risk way too far.

A similar argument could be made for carrying life raft. For the price of a life raft I could have an additional large trash pump. I could replace all the cheap sea cocks and cheap plumping fittings. We all do have limited time and resources we should quantify actual risk and mitigate actual risk and step back from our fear to do something that is actually productive.
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post #136 of 185 Old 01-13-2016
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Re: Serious attack on cruisers in Haiti - Injuries

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Originally Posted by XSrcing View Post
It's not just the Coast Guard, but the Navy has several interdiction boats in the Caribbean. Between smugglers and pirates (which are often one in the same) they were always busy.
Agree and one concern always is the number of refugees fleeing Cuba and Haiti coming onto our shores.... Some get caught but how many we do not intercept which are either friendly and seeking asylum or true hardcore terrorists awaiting their cells to do their nastiness?
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Re: Serious attack on cruisers in Haiti - Injuries

Fear and more fear. 99% of folks want to get along and live in healthy and safe places. It is a very small number of people that want to harm others.
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Re: Serious attack on cruisers in Haiti - Injuries

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Originally Posted by guitarguy56 View Post
One scenario everyone has overlooked but the U.S. Caribbean Command General has not and neither has the NSA or Immigration department is that many of these pirated vessels can be a source of these terrorists coming into our shores and causing untold terror and destruction unless they are intercepted by our Coast Guard. It's a big ocean and many open shores along the continental U.S. for them to infiltrate during night hours... So yes the general has concerns since many of these countries besides Puerto Rico (which shares data with the military and government due to its Commonwealth status) do not have the means or budget to share information with the U.S. as mentioned in the article.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Been there, done that!
In the early 80's the drug smugglers tried that. Killed a few yachties in the Bahamas and stole their boats to use for drug smuggling. And you know what? It only lasted a few months because they figured out that smuggling drugs in a boat everybody was looking for was just plain STUPID!
So now we have terrorist groups with more money than gawd and you think that they are going to steal a 5/6 knot 40' sailboat for a terrorist attack, when they can legally buy something a great deal bigger and faster and more able to avoid the authorities, that no one is looking for?
I don't.

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“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” ― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

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post #139 of 185 Old 01-13-2016
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Re: Serious attack on cruisers in Haiti - Injuries

Come on guys. We need to keep the fear going so that we can justify spending untold billions on the mili/prison/police/industrial complex. DO NOT QUESTION THIS, YOU IDIOTS [grin]

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post #140 of 185 Old 01-13-2016
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Re: Serious attack on cruisers in Haiti - Injuries

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I've known many generals and admirals and not a single one of them wants war. Ever. This isn't the middle ages anymore.
Well I've known many Colonels and they all want a pension.

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Last edited by Sal Paradise; 01-13-2016 at 02:19 PM.
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