Navy to file criminal charges.. - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 45 Old 01-17-2018
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

They train these sailors mostly how to wage war. Their marine skills have been neglected. The big brass thinks that spending obscene billions on naval technology will make up for lack of basic seamanship. What an idiocy.

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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post #12 of 45 Old 01-18-2018
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

It is a dog and pony show. Someone has to be the public target of blame, but naval investigations have already formally said the problem is not any one person--but the entire USN is at fault, for forcing ships to go to sea when they are undermanned, undertrained, and certifiably NOT READY FOR SEA DUTY.

The top brass will blame Congress, saying there's not enough budget for ships and training and crew. But they'll still order the ships they have to go out. And the captains of those ships? Gee, sir, admiral sir, my ship isn't ready so I'm going to refuse your order? That's a career-ender no matter how nicely you say it.

So it all runs downhill and in this case, lands on a batch of people who never should have been in charge of what they were in charge of. But the Peter Principle applies in or out of uniform.

You can argue that the brass, like the captains, like Congress, everyone is stuck in the middle because "everyone" wants things but doesn't want to pay for them. This reaction is (sadly) just to mollify public opinion, because the USN knows the real problem, and it has no way to correct it.

Expect more collisions, nothing has really changed.
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post #13 of 45 Old 01-18-2018
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

Sounds really complicated. But even assuming an out of repair ship and an inexperienced short staffed crew, how tough is it to post a sailor where he can see ahead and yell 'LOOK OUT'?
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post #14 of 45 Old 01-18-2018
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

"how tough is it to post"
Ever supervised a crew that was working triple shift for a couple of weeks straight?
Once people go from 8-hour shifts to 12-hour shifts, the accident and error rate DOUBLES. Put your crew on 80-hour weeks, and you've just doubled the accident rate. Put them on watch, and they'll daydream and get distracted, at best. Do it in a fog and require that watch to use a radio because the bridge is 150' away with closed hatches...uh, yeah, incredible how easily radios get mis-set.
With properly trained, rested crew and the right equipment? Real easy to get it right. When you read the naval board of investigations recounting how many excess hours are being forced, how untrained crew are being used because there are no trained crew...
Yeah, it is real easy to hit the broadside of a barn.

Tonight's homework, rent and view The Caine Mutiny. (Where the problem is the captain, not just the crew, but that hardly matters.) Extra points if you can find the strawberry ice cream before they give that answer.
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post #15 of 45 Old 01-18-2018 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Tonight's homework, rent and view The Caine Mutiny. (Where the problem is the captain, not just the crew, but that hardly matters.) Extra points if you can find the strawberry ice cream before they give that answer.
In particular pay attention to Lt. Greenwald, the assigned attorney comments to the involved three officers after the trial is over...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/padrest...eadership/amp/

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post #16 of 45 Old 01-18-2018
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

Where is MacArthur...?
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post #17 of 45 Old 01-20-2018
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

Something that probably goes unspoken, is that if the USN did not file charges, those persons who did not file charges could probably be brought up on charges on malfeasance for failing to do so. (If any families, heirs, etc. filed those charges against them.) Sometimes, proper procedure has to be filed even when it is only a CYA process unrelated to the larger issues.
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post #18 of 45 Old 01-20-2018 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Something that probably goes unspoken, is that if the USN did not file charges, those persons who did not file charges could probably be brought up on charges on malfeasance for failing to do so. (If any families, heirs, etc. filed those charges against them.) Sometimes, proper procedure has to be filed even when it is only a CYA process unrelated to the larger issues.
In other words...

'**** rolls down hill'

"In military parlance it means anything crappy coming from the top of the chain of command will hit everyone down to the bottom. This includes dumbass decision making, disciplinary actions, or simply a superior taking his frustrations out on subordinates.
Privates, I'm knee deep in your ass right now because the 1st Sgt was knee-deep in my ass this morning, and **** rolls down hill!


2
**** rolls down hill
when you have to deal with a problem that someone above you (your boss, parents, teachers, etc) caused.

don't forget....you can throw **** up hill cause it will roll right back down, but heavier.
I gotta do your job cause you ****** up?

Man, **** keeps rolling down hill at this crappy job."

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post #19 of 45 Old 01-20-2018
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

What happens on a naval vessel is and always has been the Captains responsibility.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #20 of 45 Old 03-15-2018
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

The captain should be held responsible and charged with damaging US government property as well as negligent homicide. Ignorance is n excuse for the law... Neither is stupidity but the captain should still be held accountable for his actions and the damage and injury caused by those actions. Accidentally run your boat into a Navy ship and see what happens especially running dark with you AIS switched off.
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