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post #21 of 45 Old 03-15-2018
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

The captain should be held responsible and charged with damaging US government property as well as negligent homicide. Ignorance is n excuse for the law... Neither is stupidity but the captain should still be held accountable for his actions and the damage and injury caused by those actions. Accidentally run your boat into a Navy ship and see what happens especially running dark with you AIS switched off.
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post #22 of 45 Old 03-15-2018
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

The problem is that on a Pacific Fleet level it appears that training and accountability has been waning due to reliance on electronics. The Admirals in charge of Pacific Fleet Operations themselves have been called onto the carpet since more than one of the newest most advanced guided missile cruisers in the world have been involved with the Fitz and McCain both getting t-boned in clear conditions with good visibility and the Admirals are ultimately responsible for systemic problems with the fleets personnel and training.

I was very concerned when the first incident occurred since my crew was responsible for much of the core chart data that went into the Nav Consoles, that should have placed them within 1/2 meter of their lane, fearing it was an issue with charting putting them way out of the lane on the seaways however that was not the case, it was mostly just a dis-join in communications between the watch on deck and those on the bridge not following the rules of piloting.

Some of the info reveled from Naval resources appears to indicate many crewmen on the bridge/control room were distracted with personal devices too.

Embarrassing also that the captain of the Fitz instead of being called from his ready bunk at 2 AM by the night watch and CO in charge of the bridge, when the encroachment was first noticed and the banter began between the deck watch and the bridge, was left to find out by having a container ship rip through the bulkhead of his bunk leaving him injured and clinging for his life to the hole in the side of the hull in his night clothes with the crewmen in the bunks beneath him trapped/dying in a flooded compartment.

The Criminal Investigation will allow them to more quickly get to Root Cause so they can fix what is broken in training, assessing qualifications of crew and procedure. There was a good reason why the Secretary of the Navy felt it necessary back in the day to contract Chapman to write the book on Practical Seamanship and Navigation and make it required reading. Perhaps its time for an update and having all bridge, control room and watch personnel read it again with the occasional spot quiz afterwards to ensure their competency.

Meanwhile the US Pacific Fleet is down by something like 1/3 of their missile response capabilities.
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post #23 of 45 Old 05-26-2018 Thread Starter
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

https://abcnews.go.com/US/commanding...ry?id=55433227
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post #24 of 45 Old 05-26-2018
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

The repetitive failure of many people in all walks of life to accept responsibility for the consequences of their actions or inaction is undermining society. I have respect for the decision of the two officers choosing to plead and the statement made.
The worst punishment is they will live with the knowledge that their failures lead to the death of their sailors.
Any nonsense about sh-t rolling down hill,regardless of its truth, doesn’t shift the captains responsibility to train his crew or be at the bridge when appropriate.

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post #25 of 45 Old 05-26-2018
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

I drew some weird, reversed, parallel with the Cain Mutiny. Lets not confuse the two McCain and Caine...

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post #26 of 45 Old 05-26-2018
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

Make you wonder why some elderly retired sailors over the past few weeks/months have been called back to hold two and three week training courses on seamanship and such.

They had to scour nursing homes 30 or so years ago to get engineers who could design long lasting engines back into the auto industry to pass on that skill to the youngun's and turn things around from the string of failed attempts that were occurring back then, is the Navy having to do similar today to turn around issues with seamanship?
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post #27 of 45 Old 05-26-2018
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

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Originally Posted by SeaStar58 View Post
Make you wonder why some elderly retired sailors over the past few weeks/months have been called back to hold two and three week training courses on seamanship and such.

They had to scour nursing homes 30 or so years ago to get engineers who could design long lasting engines back into the auto industry to pass on that skill to the youngun's and turn things around from the string of failed attempts that were occurring back then, is the Navy having to do similar today to turn around issues with seamanship?
sounds like a myth
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post #28 of 45 Old 05-26-2018
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

No the US Navy did not dig old farts out of nursing homes.... They ordered the US Navy ships to TURN ON the bloody AIS!
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post #29 of 45 Old 05-26-2018
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

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sounds like a myth
I know one of the elderly gents whom I saw almost daily until he was called to give the lessons so no myth this gent was not in a nursing home though. You don't have to make stuff up with so much reality like this out there.

Don't know all the intrinsic details but he's been gone to train sailors in the Navy for a number of weeks now. We'll see if what if any details he can speak to when he gets back however I don't expect anything more than what I have already commented on. It's nice though that they respect/value the knowledge and wisdom of these older sailors. Hopefully he can pass on some of that to the younger generation.

On the auto industry Chrysler Engines designed by those old timers in the mid to late 1980's are still the foundation for a number of new engines today despite Mercede's attempts to replace them with their own Dr. Zeiter designs and Fords failed attempt to develop a new push rod V6 in the 1990's was a disaster which is history. My youngest brother got stuck with the new design Ford push rod V6 which had to be recalled and replaced with a totally new engine that had an updated design with a beefed up valve train. None of the patches they tried on the original engines solved the recurring failures. I believe the engine was offered in the Explorers.
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post #30 of 45 Old 05-26-2018
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Re: Navy to file criminal charges..

You all seem to think this a recent development in Naval operations. Well, let me tell you it's not!
When I grew up on the bay, it wasn't all that infrequent a destroyer hit a bridge, or some other Naval vessel went aground. Not too many years back, a US Navy ship ran aground on a reef in a national park in the Philippines for no apparent reason. Using google I could probably come up with innumerable others.
It seems when you run around on a vessel with a big gun or two, you kinda expect other, less well armed vessels to keep clear. It is clearly a failure of the whole system, a system that advances incompetent officers and doesn't train the lesser ratings well enough in the operation of the vessels when not engaged in military operations.
Not to say this holds true for only the US Navy, for it doesn't. But since the introduction of mechanically driven vessels to the fleets of the world's military, I believe seamanship has taken a back seat to military preparedness.

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