Suicide at Sea and captain charged - Page 10 - SailNet Community
 718Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #91 of 790 Old 12-14-2018
Senior Member
 
Arcb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,516
Thanks: 206
Thanked 183 Times in 179 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV Siren View Post
Doing an actual MOB procedure is not always easy as Mark points out. Practicing should always be a good thing to do.


Case in point: Last year a the START of the Chicago Mackinac race a sailor fell overboard, a mere 5 minutes into the race on a pro boat with pro crew at noon in broad daylight. There were 300 or so entrants. His body was found a week later.
The race organisers did a report on this. It was a good sized boat, 50 something feet. 20-25 knots, seas 6-8 ft.

The spotters saw him in the water, they got the boat stopped and turned around and made 3 passes to try and recover. On the third atempt, after an estimated 6 minutes they lost track of him.

https://www.cycracetomackinac.com/ch...medi-incident/
Arcb is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 790 Old 12-14-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,704
Thanks: 130
Thanked 43 Times in 36 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonV View Post
Maybe I'm syndical but this "He then climbed up and over the wiring railing and leaped off the port side of the boat. His head hit the railing on the way down." has hairs on it. Could this statement have been made to cover the fact that if the search party did recover the body it would explain the head wounds, which may or may not have happened prior to the big splash?
That was exactly my thought when I read that sentence. This was reportedly in calm seas and <5knots wind. Of course we don't know what state he was in but just 'leaping' of the boat in calm seas would usually not getting someone hit his head 'on the railing' (I suppose they meant the toe rail?). Perhaps the boat made a really unusual lurch just at that moment but that seems unlikely, and wouldn't the witnesses have commented on that?

None of us (or the potential jury) was there but to me it sounds questionable.
MarkofSeaLife likes this.

Last edited by MastUndSchotbruch; 12-14-2018 at 11:21 AM. Reason: added details
MastUndSchotbruch is online now  
post #93 of 790 Old 12-14-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 109
Thanks: 5
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

I can understand the Captains frustration with this guy but it does seem pretty cold to just keep going after you see someone leap off your boat. It sounds like he had some serious mental issues that were possibly exacerbated by the Scop or other drugs he was taking and he wasn't doing anything to make himself popular with the rest of the crew and I expect the rest of the crew was both fatigued, stressed, and frightened of a 250#, angry and out of control crew member, so I can see how their initial reaction after he jumped might be "good, that problem child just took care of itself" but a split second later I think most of us, no matter how much we disliked or feared the MOB, would turn the boat around and try to rescue him anyway.

The article says 5 knots of wind and calm seas on a moonlit night so they must have been motoring so I don't understand how it would be hard to turn the boat around at all. Even without a life jacket, you bob under but don't continuously sink as soon as you enter the water and if they had immediately circled around under power they could have been within feet of his location within a couple of minutes. I obviously wasn't there but I just can't understand Smith's statement that "there's nothing we can do" when there obviously was something they could at least try to do. I don't underestimate the difficulty in getting a MOB, especially a 250# unconscious or belligerent and unwilling one, back aboard, but I just can't understand not trying. It will be interesting to read the transcripts of the other crewmembers statements under oath once the trial is complete.
MarkofSeaLife likes this.
jtsailjt is offline  
 
post #94 of 790 Old 12-14-2018
Old enough to know better
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Beacon, NY
Posts: 4,325
Thanks: 28
Thanked 187 Times in 182 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaStar58 View Post
Hung Jury ya think?

Many people here are only focusing on what happened after the Captain goaded this guy on and waited until after it was too late to mitigate the situation. If the reports of the Captain's actions instigating hostility early on hold up then that puts quite a different spin on things. The trial and indictment will likely focus more on that inaction and hostile situation potentially fostered by the Captain prior to the crewman's going berserk along with the timeline of events that followed when they sailed away.

Our discussion on this pretty much guarantees that none of us will be acceptable as jurors

This may become more of a case about Captain's who bully their crew and turn into a Modern Day Captain Bligh out on the water.

We may do well to consider how hard we rib or tease folks on our boats (really anywhere) even if we think that we are doing it in a good natured manner and mean no real harm by it.
Actually I think it will focus on the captain not getting medical attention for a sick crew member. Going days and allowing a crew member puke his guts out getting more and more dehydrated yet not seeking medical care for him seems to be the initial negligence. He was unwilling to alter his schedule to the point that it killed a crew member. The unwillingness to even search for the body just proves he was uncaring and vile.
MarkofSeaLife likes this.

1976 C&C 33
Project boat, lots of work to be done!
miatapaul is offline  
post #95 of 790 Old 12-14-2018
Old enough to know better
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Beacon, NY
Posts: 4,325
Thanks: 28
Thanked 187 Times in 182 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don0190 View Post
You know, there were 3 people on this boat. If one of them seriously felt they should have gone searching for this crazy dangerous person that jumped off the boat I bet that would have been mentioned in the article.

It was:

"Pepper and Morningstar were both shaking with fear.

Smith grabbed the VHF radio to try and contact other vessels. Only static.

Morningstar asked Smith if they should turn the boat around. Smith did not."
MarkofSeaLife likes this.

1976 C&C 33
Project boat, lots of work to be done!
miatapaul is offline  
post #96 of 790 Old 12-14-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,105
Thanks: 114
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

Yes I think the negligent behaviour before the crisis event is far more relevant.

The apathy after the fact just serves as confirmation, reinforcement of IMO sociopathic attitudes.
john61ct is online now  
post #97 of 790 Old 12-14-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Bahamas
Posts: 3,547
Thanks: 3
Thanked 136 Times in 134 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

Should we schedule the band to come on before or after the hanging?
Use online TicketMaster or just sell tickets onsite?
RegisteredUser is online now  
post #98 of 790 Old 12-14-2018
Senior Member
 
mstern's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,461
Thanks: 60
Thanked 51 Times in 48 Posts
Rep Power: 18
 
Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by RegisteredUser View Post
Use online TicketMaster or just sell tickets onsite?
I hate TicketMaster.
willyd likes this.
mstern is online now  
post #99 of 790 Old 12-14-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Bahamas
Posts: 3,547
Thanks: 3
Thanked 136 Times in 134 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstern View Post
I hate TicketMaster.
Ok then, at the gate. Less hassle and dont give up that %
Pot Luck or arrange for taco truck and shaved ice trailer
RegisteredUser is online now  
post #100 of 790 Old 12-15-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 19,805
Thanks: 82
Thanked 561 Times in 538 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by willyd View Post
And you don't have to believe me. I had the same assumptions you did, but they're not true. Here's a report by some search and rescue experts:

{snip}

http://journalofsar.com/wp-content/u...ach-Bottom.pdf
I take it you feel the need to defend this Captain to some degree. Your linked article is flawed in this discussion for one major reason and several ancillary ones. First, it assumes the victim has already drowned (ie, air expelled from lungs) which there is absolutely no way the Captain could have known. Secondly, it is filled with theoretical variables the author fully disclaims are not directly related to real situations.

Quote:
Timed experiments were done by the authors in a swimming pool where one of the authors swam to about a six foot depth, expelled air, became negatively buoyant and sank to the bottom of the pool. The results of these simulations were used to check if the calculated results were close to the experimental results.

As with any mathematical model there are serious differences between the model and what actually occurs in a real situation.
The bottom line is, the Captain could not have known his crew member would not have surfaced and failing to make any effort at recovery will be culpable. While it is possible the body would never have surfaced, it's also possible it would have. I don't believe there is any rational way to dispute that. I doubt a recovery would have been successful, based on statistics, but there is no way he's keeping his ticket with the kind of decision making that eliminated any effort to try.
miatapaul and MarkofSeaLife like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Case of NS sailboat captain charged with importing cocaine due in court - CTV News NewsReader News Feeds 0 04-27-2018 03:40 PM
Publisher's death was an apparent suicide (AP via Yahoo! News) NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-20-2006 11:16 PM
Family: Philip Merrill Committed Suicide - W*USA 9 NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-20-2006 11:16 PM
Publisher's Death Was an Apparent Suicide (Minneapolis-St. Paul Star Tribune) NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-20-2006 11:16 PM
Merrill committed suicide, family members say (Baltimore Sun) NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-20-2006 10:15 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome