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post #501 of 790 Old 01-04-2019
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

But the captain of that coracle needs to exercise a high level of care for the others aboard.
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post #502 of 790 Old 01-04-2019
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

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If I'm the defense lawyer here, I'm doing my best to make sure my client doesn't have anyone like that on his jury.
Having practiced in the courts (yes practice, I'm not saying it has ever been perfected), I would agree that most cases are decided when you pick the jury. That's why I like to have a woman by my side when I do such. They seem to discern more than I do about the folks we are selecting.
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post #503 of 790 Old 01-04-2019
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

Agree you have every right including lethal force to defend yourself. Iíve racked my wingmaster with every intention to use it when someone broke through the glass slider into my house. I didnít give a rodents behind as to why they did that. Fortunately they took off.

But that has absolutely nothing to do with this scenario.

1. Crew presented no risk to the boat, captain nor crew floating in the water. Neither did he present a risk if taken back on board and immediately restrained if necessary.

2. Even if left to die his death was due to the negligence of the captain. Who therefore is culpable for that death. Furthermore whether the crew lives when another vessel picks him up or dies due his boat sailing away has no bearing on the existence of the captains negligence. The negligence occurred BEFORE the episode of violence. I can see how it maybe reflected in sentencing by the no harm-no foul rule but not on whether negligence was present.

The captain f#cked up. Due to the captains f#ck up the crew lost his mind and attacked the captain. How does this excuse the captains f#ck up?

Think you have the causal chain in reverse.
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post #504 of 790 Old 01-04-2019
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

People sure getting good at cheering the same walk the plank position.

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post #505 of 790 Old 01-04-2019
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

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whether the crew lives when another vessel picks him up or dies due his boat sailing away has no bearing on the existence of the captains negligence. The negligence occurred BEFORE the episode of violence.
now THAT is the key point afaic.

His pathologically callous disregard for human life was **further** demonstrated by his failures after MOB.

But the really serious negligence was before it.
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post #506 of 790 Old 01-04-2019
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

If the Captain was scared for his life he would have put his pistol in his pocket.
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post #507 of 790 Old 01-05-2019
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Agree you have every right including lethal force to defend yourself. Iíve racked my wingmaster with every intention to use it when someone broke through the glass slider into my house. I didnít give a rodents behind as to why they did that. Fortunately they took off.

But that has absolutely nothing to do with this scenario.

1. Crew presented no risk to the boat, captain nor crew floating in the water. Neither did he present a risk if taken back on board and immediately restrained if necessary.

2. Even if left to die his death was due to the negligence of the captain. Who therefore is culpable for that death. Furthermore whether the crew lives when another vessel picks him up or dies due his boat sailing away has no bearing on the existence of the captains negligence. The negligence occurred BEFORE the episode of violence. I can see how it maybe reflected in sentencing by the no harm-no foul rule but not on whether negligence was present.

The captain f#cked up. Due to the captains f#ck up the crew lost his mind and attacked the captain. How does this excuse the captains f#ck up?

Think you have the causal chain in reverse.
Itís all an intellectual exercise of logic to you. Have you ever been in a situation where you were isolated....and attacked physically by someone much large than you?

No one to turn to to defend yourself but yourself. If you have never been in that situation it's rediculous to comment on how you would handle that physical threat. It's not an intellectual exercise at that point anymore.

It's not the same situation as trying to get someone who broke into your house You don't really care how or why they became that way, you just choose to survive and defend yourself.

Also...He jumped off the boat. Let's call it what it is...SUICIDE. he chose to commit suicide on his own free will. What right do you have to stop him?
Only argument you have is he was out of his mind.

The only issue I have is that the captain did not alert anyone and heave to so the body could be recovered by others, That draws suspicion but there may be an explanation.

Now you want to stop an play amatuer analysis on a scenerio you are speculating on surface facts you have obtained from the news ( we know how unbiased and reliable they are) or general CG report. I prefer to wait for more facts than pontificate on theories.

What a Rediculous irrelevant t statement t..I was right about the Bounty and the crowd sourse opinion was right, therefore the crowd source option should be listened to because it was right. Really.... Even a stopped watch shows correct time twice a day.

With a person assaulting you and your crew , again who cares why he's in that state.....he is....and he's right in front of you. And then He makes it easy for you by committing suicide and removed the threat and any future threat by his own actions. I am sure they felt and we're safer with him gone.

Since we see/ here so many unverified speculation theories how about trying this one........ CG finds a boat drifting...blood everywhere...crew and captain dead by beating....one person completely missing....it's .THE MURDERER...THE RESCUED MURDERER. They determine that a rescued crew member killed everyone then jumps overboard for a second time committing suicide successfully finally.


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post #508 of 790 Old 01-05-2019
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
....... CG finds a boat drifting...blood everywhere...crew and captain dead by beating....one person completely missing....it's .THE MURDERER...THE RESCUED MURDERER. They determine that a rescued crew member killed everyone then jumps overboard for a second time committing suicide successfully finally.

Ummmmm have your tablets gone a bit haywire?

The Captain had a handgun.

He could have used to to ensure a safe rescue.


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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

Yes, I grew up on the lower east side of Manhattan so yes Iíve been attacked by someone larger than me.
Yes, Iíve been on a boat where someone became totally irrational.(see above)
Yes, Iíve stated that we donít know all the facts and repetitively stated my opinion is based on the information as presented.
No, this isnít theoretical for me. This is a major concern in my life. How can I be a better captain. I do passages. For that activity I take on crew. People ive never known before the passage frequently. Iíve been unlucky at times in selection. Iíve had jerks as crew and have crewed under jerks given the less frequent occasions Iíve crewed for others on passage. This or a similar scenario maybe in my future. This is a serious situation where a man lost his life. If you want to discuss how this could be prevented Iím all over it. But if you want to take away the reassurance that captains will look out for their crew and if they donít no consequences will occur Iím going to continue to be in your face.
From available information this captain did not captain well. As asked before what insight or information can you present to change that opinion.
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailormon6 View Post
If anyone attacks me with lethal force, I have every legal right to use lethal force to defend myself. ..... I don't have to let some crazy guy kill me. .....
No, you don't have the let them hurt you. However, the attack was described to have stopped and the victim jumped over voluntarily. You are not permitted to hold your right to defend yourself, beyond the threat. Doing so is revenge, not defense, and is blatantly illegal.

You might fail to bring the victim back aboard, if you feel the threat would recur. However, there is no threat in locating him, providing flotation and waiting alongside, until you can contact help or the victim loses enough energy that you no longer find them a threat. That was this Captain's duty and it's reported that he thought it wasn't necessary because he saw the victim instantly die, in the dark. I don't think the Prosecutor believes that is the reason he didn't go back. He may believe it was anger or revenge.


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