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post #51 of 790 Old 12-12-2018
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

Clearly, the lesson to be learned here is that if a dude falls overboard from your boat -- no matter how you might feel about the guy -- at least stop the boat and pretend like you give a $hit. It's amazing to me that the captain did not have the foresight to see how his actions (or more accurately, his omissions) would be viewed by others after the fact. Makes me think that the captain's mental faculties weren't all there either, although potentially the incident itself left him in some sort of shock that affected his mental reasoning.

That said, I think the "Seaman's Manslaughter Statute" 18 U.S.C. 1115 is a bad outdated law. This type of situation -- involving just simple ordinary negligence -- should give rise to civil liability and penalties, not a felony conviction with up to 10 years in prison. I don't see the benefit to anyone of criminalizing this type of negligent conduct.
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post #52 of 790 Old 12-12-2018
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

I think it's interesting how we can ascribe actions and attitudes to people due to our own assumptions or other people's words. Have any of you watched this TED talk on false memories? I found it rather eye-opening.

https://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_...memory#t-77871

If that article did not contain the misleading quote from Larson, the captain's friend, we'd have a very different picture of what happened. Ditto for when we are told Morningstar asks Smith to "turn the boat around," which could also very well refer to heading back to North Carolina and not continuing to the Virgins. It's easy to assume that this must refer to going back and circling around where the body sank, when it's actually ambiguous. Given that Larson is a sailor and knows that it's not difficult to turn a boat around (esp. in 5 knots of wind, assuming he knew that), it seems more than likely to me that these two references to Smith not "turning around" refer to returning to the port of origin versus continuing on to their destination.

Furthermore, the article contains another clue that they actually stopped and looked for the body. It says that they shined the spotlight on the spot where the body went in - how likely are they to have kept moving while digging out the spotlight and then training it on the spot in the water where they think the body is as it falls farther and farther astern?

We regularly ridicule newspaper articles for containing inaccuracies when it comes to sailing - this article should be treated no differently.
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post #53 of 790 Old 12-12-2018
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

You know, there were 3 people on this boat. If one of them seriously felt they should have gone searching for this crazy dangerous person that jumped off the boat I bet that would have been mentioned in the article.

But, I understand internet forum posters always understand and make the right judgements from their computers over those that were there.

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post #54 of 790 Old 12-12-2018
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

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But, I understand internet forum posters always understand and make the right judgements from their computers over those that were there.
This is an ironic point to make as an internet forum poster yourself who is commenting on the situation.

But in any event, we do know that a prosecutor and a grand jury have reviewed the evidence and felt that there was enough evidence of negligence against the captain to obtain a conviction at trial. Of course they could be wrong and the judicial system does not always achieve the correct outcome, but it's the best we got.
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post #55 of 790 Old 12-12-2018
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

What is the best portable cooler to use when tailgating a public hanging?
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post #56 of 790 Old 12-12-2018
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

Every one of these disaster discussions ends up with "Well you wern't there how the hell would you know"
No, none of us were there and I think everyone realises that.

But theres lots we can LEARN about how we would react in a similar situation. Thats why these discussions are valuable!

If you see someone fall overboard yes they will be sinking at the moment the go under the water. But a boat speed is 100 feet per knot per minute so if the boat was going 5 knots thats 500 feet per minutes = 8 feet per second. how many seconds did the captain observe the person doing down and NOT coming up?? 5 seconds? 40 feet? on a 40 foot boat?
But I can hold my breath well over 5 seconds. cant I, cant you? So yes, he may have been seen sinking but he would not have had the chance to pop up again. Or was he holding a cannon ball (Master and Commander)?
Yes these questions can only be resolved by a judge and jury but theres no problems with our smart brains learning *now* what we would do,
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post #57 of 790 Old 12-12-2018
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

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Or was he holding a cannon ball
Yeah!

Don't bodies float? Unless you have zero percent body fat, or rocks in your pockets, I'm pretty sure bodies float.
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post #58 of 790 Old 12-12-2018
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

I don't see how the cannonball trick would work - you'd just drop it as soon as you lost consciousness and then pop back up again, or would it force you to lose all the air in your lungs before that happened?

Anyways, there's follow-up article for those interested: https://www.pressherald.com/2018/11/...members-death/

I googled "cooler for public hanging" and this is what came up: https://goimprints.s3.amazonaws.com/...e-cooler-1.jpg
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

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But in any event, we do know that a prosecutor and a grand jury have reviewed the evidence and felt that there was enough evidence of negligence against the captain to obtain a conviction at trial. .
That's not correct. In places that have the grand jury system every person ever found "not guilty" was at trail because of a persecutor who told the grand jury just what he alone wanted them to hear.

I still stand by my feeling that if there was a real criminal case that the initial CG investigation would have led to action way back. There's something in play here and no matter what happens this boat owner is going to get screwed over badly!
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post #60 of 790 Old 12-12-2018
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Re: Suicide at Sea and captain charged

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That's not correct. In places that have the grand jury system every person ever found "not guilty" was at trail because of a persecutor who told the grand jury just what he alone wanted them to hear.
Huh? I'm having a hard time understanding what you are trying to say.

Grand juries do not convict, nor do they return "not guilty" verdicts. The whole point is for a prosecutor (not persecutor) to present evidence and essentially get feedback from citizen jurors about whether they find the evidence persuasive as to the subject's guilt. It's part of the reason why federal prosecutors have extremely high conviction (guilty) rates at trial. Because they do a test run of the evidence in front of a grand jury. So no, it's not a guilty verdict, but when a prosecutor moves forward with a case after a grand jury proceeding, it's not looking good for that defendant.
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