Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med! - Page 3 - SailNet Community
 95Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 94 Old 03-28-2019
Old soul
 
MikeOReilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 3,794
Thanks: 246
Thanked 185 Times in 173 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med!

So... I read the thread and then went back to the original news story. I was then surprised b/c I think the premise of the thread is not supported by the article.

Specifically, the official is quoted as saying this is “the first act of piracy on the high seas with migrants as alleged hijackers.” So, despite the many years of human misery and desperation that has washed its way across the Med, this is the only time such an event has happened.

If the news story is meant as a guide, then the thread title should have been "Do pick up illegal migrants in the Med!"

All mariners have a duty to provide assistance to fellow boaters if we can do safely. The assumption that illegal Med migrants might try and kill you is not supported by this story, or by the history of this tragedy.

That said, I don’t know what I’d do if I came across a raft of 120 people. I’d certainly be wary of them, but I think I would try and provide what assistance I could safely, recognizing my boat has limited capabilities, and can only hold maybe dozen people at the very most.
MarkofSeaLife likes this.

Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MikeOReilly is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 94 Old 03-28-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Bahamas
Posts: 3,225
Thanks: 3
Thanked 122 Times in 120 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Today, right now, my favorite color is red.
What should it be...my fave color?

Please take social judgement bait....and go troll other waters, or back to high school. Reborn teenies....with a voice

An exercise with no productive end
RegisteredUser is online now  
post #23 of 94 Old 03-28-2019
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New England
Posts: 80
Thanks: 27
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
That said, I don’t know what I’d do if I came across a raft of 120 people. I’d certainly be wary of them, but I think I would try and provide what assistance I could safely, recognizing my boat has limited capabilities, and can only hold maybe dozen people at the very most.
A metaphor for the situation as a whole.

Your choices in such an encounter would be:
1) to render assistance and be swamped and/or hijacked, in which case you may end up swimming with the fishes yourself (as you said, your boat has limited capabilities, and you're taking up valuable space/food/water).

2) sail on, giving them a wide berth.

Essentially, those were the choices of the protagonist in the German movie discussed in another thread here, with some additional complications which arose from her indecision between choices #1 and #2.

You are saying that your choice would be #1, but from the clauses conditioning your assistance on the capabilities of your boat and the realities of Med crossings by migrants, I suspect your revealed preference would be #2.

Sure, if you came across a small dinghy with a handful of women and children, you'd render assistance. What if the migrant boat instead contained many dozens or even hundreds of young men, as most of them do?
Would you do pull up next to them to explain you can only take 12?

Also, you're assuming that the quoted official is correct and truthful about the history of such incidents. Given the obfuscation of this situation by European officials and the media, I wouldn't make that assumption.

Last edited by Seaman_3rdClass; 03-28-2019 at 05:53 PM.
Seaman_3rdClass is offline  
 
post #24 of 94 Old 03-28-2019
Dirt Free
 
boatpoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,496
Thanks: 22
Thanked 141 Times in 136 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med!

I am quite sure that regardless of the risks Sharon and I would not be capable of bypassing anyone in dire straits.
We Have involved ourselves in other circumstance at some cost to us but we sleep with clear concience.
MikeOReilly likes this.

The hysterical laughter you hear as you drive a way in your"new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is online now  
post #25 of 94 Old 03-28-2019
Master Mariner
 
capta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere south of civilization
Posts: 6,941
Thanks: 135
Thanked 365 Times in 353 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med!

When I frequented the waters at the time of the boat people from Cuba & Haiti, other than giving them water and standing some distance off, the policy was to call the USCG and leave the situation to them. If you took them aboard your vessel, then you were responsible for their repatriation at your expense.
Kinda goes against all the traditional "laws" of the seas, but what are you supposed to do? Pay for their rehabilitation and medical costs, then fly them back to their home on your nickel?
Great fishing under their rafts, though.
MarkofSeaLife likes this.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” ― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

facebook.com/svskippingstone
capta is online now  
post #26 of 94 Old 03-28-2019
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 87
Thanks: 9
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 1
 
Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med!

The question isn't so much what would you do if you came upon refugees dying on a raft at sea, but rather what would you do if you and your family lived in a place so terrible that the prospect of dying on a raft at sea was not a deterrent to giving it a shot. Refugees are not "illegal". They are refugees. A little compassion out there on your private yacht.
br3nt likes this.

Renae
Rmaddy is online now  
post #27 of 94 Old 03-28-2019
Master Mariner
 
capta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere south of civilization
Posts: 6,941
Thanks: 135
Thanked 365 Times in 353 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmaddy View Post
The question isn't so much what would you do if you came upon refugees dying on a raft at sea, but rather what would you do if you and your family lived in a place so terrible that the prospect of dying on a raft at sea was not a deterrent to giving it a shot. Refugees are not "illegal". They are refugees. A little compassion out there on your private yacht.
Whether I was operating a ship, sailing boat, tug or sportfishing boat, the most "compassionate" thing one could do for those boat people was give them water and call the USCG and stand by until they arrived.
In many cases, even food would not be appropriate, if unsupervised by a medical professional.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” ― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

facebook.com/svskippingstone
capta is online now  
post #28 of 94 Old 03-29-2019
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New England
Posts: 80
Thanks: 27
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmaddy View Post
The question isn't so much what would you do if you came upon refugees dying on a raft at sea, but rather what would you do if you and your family lived in a place so terrible that the prospect of dying on a raft at sea was not a deterrent to giving it a shot. Refugees are not "illegal". They are refugees. A little compassion out there on your private yacht.
Your claim that the Med boat people are refugees is unsubstantiated. The term refugee has a legal definition, someone who's fleeing war, persecution, or violence in their home country. The vast majority of the Med boat migrants do not meet that definition. Most of them are not families fleeing war or persecution, but young males from Sub-Saharan countries not currently at war. They tend not to be particularly poor either, being able to come up with hefty fees to get on the smugglers' boats - a good, if risky, investment given the generous payoff if they make it to their destination. I trust you can look up the details yourself.

If this is wrong, it is a moral imperative to help them. Please do post videos when you sail to the Med on your private yacht and approach their boats to assist them in their migration.
Seaman_3rdClass is offline  
post #29 of 94 Old 03-29-2019
Old soul
 
MikeOReilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 3,794
Thanks: 246
Thanked 185 Times in 173 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaman_3rdClass View Post
A metaphor for the situation as a whole.

Your choices in such an encounter would be:
1) to render assistance and be swamped and/or hijacked, in which case you may end up swimming with the fishes yourself (as you said, your boat has limited capabilities, and you're taking up valuable space/food/water).
This is an assumption unsupported by facts presented. I said the opposite.

The issue with recognizing my vessel’s limitations are simple facts. I can accommodate perhaps 12 people. The raft cited held 120. My full water supply would assist very little.

I stated I would still provide what assistance I could, without overtly endangering my crew or my vessel. I think this is the basic standard all mariners are expected to operate to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaman_3rdClass View Post
Also, you're assuming that the quoted official is correct and truthful about the history of such incidents. Given the obfuscation of this situation by European officials and the media, I wouldn't make that assumption.
This is the only information I have. I have no information regarding the "obfuscation of this situation by European officials and the media.” If you do, then you are in a more informed position. But my brief research on the subject has so far confirmed there have been no other similar incidents.

Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MikeOReilly is online now  
post #30 of 94 Old 03-29-2019
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New England
Posts: 80
Thanks: 27
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
I stated I would still provide what assistance I could, without overtly endangering my crew or my vessel. I think this is the basic standard all mariners are expected to operate to.
OK. It's easy to talk abstractly about how you would provide what assistance you could and basic standards, but at sea things get rather more concrete. Since we are discussing realistic scenarios that could happen if you were cruising in certain parts of the Med, let's talk specifics. What assistance would you provide if you encountered a craft filled with a hundred or more migrants? And how would you provide it?

Would you come close enough to raft up or transfer a number of migrants to your boat, say, by dinghy, or by their jumping in the water and swimming to your boat?

You said you could take 12 (or whatever), but how would you select them? What if more than the number your boat could support tried to come aboard, as is likely to be the case? Would you take all of them on, try to persuade some of them not to board your boat, or just take off and leave them in the water? What if they were clinging to your boat while still in the water, but you could take no more? What if those that did come aboard insisted on your going back and picking up their friends and relatives? What if they REALLY insisted? "Look at me: I am the captain now."

If you were NOT planning to take any aboard for those reasons, but say, just give them some of your water or food, you'd have to be close enough to transfer water or food while controlling who came aboard your vessel. How would you persuade them not to come aboard if they nonetheless jumped or swam to your boat? How would you do that, without endangering your crew or your vessel? Would you remove your ladder and any lines they could grab? Most of the migrants attempting the journey are young agile men under the age of 36, and quite desperate. What would you do if the choice was between physically preventing them from coming onto your boat or endangering yourself, your crew, and your boat?

Last edited by Seaman_3rdClass; 03-29-2019 at 01:44 AM.
Seaman_3rdClass is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Official: 4 found dead as inflatable boat carrying illegal migrants near ... - Washin NewsReader News Feeds 0 09-03-2011 11:00 PM
How to pick up racing experience? orialb Racing 7 07-06-2007 10:54 AM
Ladycats pick up another win (Hope Star) NewsReader News Feeds 0 08-17-2006 07:15 PM
Park House students pick up sailing course awards (Gulf Times) NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-02-2006 03:15 AM
Vee shaped Holding Tanks....To pick up some space. chuck711 Gear & Maintenance 1 03-09-2003 05:27 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome