Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med! - Page 7 - SailNet Community
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post #61 of 94 Old 03-30-2019
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Dunno if they handle the Med.
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post #62 of 94 Old 03-30-2019
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Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med!

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Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
Yeah, I donít really understand what this seaman is on about.
What is so difficult to understand? You see a boat that's clearly not a leisure craft or engaged in some legitimate maritime business. How do you know from a distance whether these are migrants, pirates, migrants who could turn into pirates if the circumstances are right, or someone just pushing some service you may or may not want? You don't until you come closer. In certain regions of the Caribbean it's not uncommon to see large skiffs come at you and you have no idea what they want.
Maybe you can tell from a mile away who is on the boat and what they want, but I can't.
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Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med!

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What is so difficult to understand? You see a boat that's clearly not a leisure craft or engaged in some legitimate maritime business. How do you know from a distance whether these are migrants, pirates, migrants who could turn into pirates if the circumstances are right, or someone just pushing some service you may or may not want? You don't until you come closer. In certain regions of the Caribbean it's not uncommon to see large skiffs come at you and you have no idea what they want.
Maybe you can tell from a mile away who is on the boat and what they want, but I can't.
But the thread wasnt about the Black Pearl, Captain Jack Sparrow or the Pirates of the Carribean. It was a big slow cumbersome sinking raft with over 100 men, women and children on board. Totally different things.
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post #64 of 94 Old 03-30-2019
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Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants!

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You could throw them a few bottles of water and notify the U.S. Coast Guard . . . and if you have plenty of floatation devices, you might be able to throw those to them, to help save their lives, but I wonder if that would make you an accomplice, like a coyote, for assisting them to cross the border illegally.
Seeking asylum is not illegal, and refugees have rights defined by the United Nations. Status-wise, they have the same right to sail/row/motor into Malta or elsewhere that you do. Once there, they, like you, must present themselves to the local authorities and state their purpose in arriving. On the water, there is no legal distinction between them and you whatsoever. There is a factual distinction, i.e. that they are overloaded and in trouble, and you are not. It is on that basis that I would hope you made your decisions.

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You just told us water is wet
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post #66 of 94 Old 03-30-2019
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Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med!

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But the thread wasnt about the Black Pearl, Captain Jack Sparrow or the Pirates of the Carribean. It was a big slow cumbersome sinking raft with over 100 men, women and children on board. Totally different things.
Exactly right. I donít understand what seaman is on about. (S)he seems to want to have a different discussion. Or perhaps a broader discussion about how one deals with íthe other.í

In this case the article says this is the first example of piracy in all the years of this prolonged human disaster. And the other link presents evidence that even this conclusion is doubtful. So obviously the evidence suggests these people are not a danger to any would-be rescuer.

As I said, desperate people can do desperate things. I would be cautious. As I also said, I think I would render what assistance I could without overtly endangering my crew or vessel. This is consistent with our obligations as mariners, but also as fellow human beings.

Given the limitation of a smallish sailboat trying to assist a raft with 120 people on it, the assistance I could provide would likely be quite limited. Perhaps I could provide water, and maybe refuge to a few of the more vulnerable. Obviously I could assist with communications if that was needed. Not sure what else a smallish sailboat could do.
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Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med!

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Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
Exactly right. I donít understand what seaman is on about. (S)he seems to want to have a different discussion. Or perhaps a broader discussion about how one deals with íthe other.í

In this case the article says this is the first example of piracy in all the years of this prolonged human disaster. And the other link presents evidence that even this conclusion is doubtful. So obviously the evidence suggests these people are not a danger to any would-be rescuer.

As I said, desperate people can do desperate things. I would be cautious. As I also said, I think I would render what assistance I could without overtly endangering my crew or vessel. This is consistent with our obligations as mariners, but also as fellow human beings.

Given the limitation of a smallish sailboat trying to assist a raft with 120 people on it, the assistance I could provide would likely be quite limited. Perhaps I could provide water, and maybe refuge to a few of the more vulnerable. Obviously I could assist with communications if that was needed. Not sure what else a smallish sailboat could do.
I had two rather simple points in this discussion:
1) you can't know who are dealing with at sea until you come into fairly close contact, which can endanger you;
2) folks who sail in areas where they're unlikely to ever encounter migrants seem most enthusiastic about rendering assistance to them.

My latent point is, in case it's still not clear, I'm not very impressed by folks intent on moral posturing while actually doing nothing.
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post #68 of 94 Old 03-30-2019
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Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med!

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I had two rather simple points in this discussion:
1) you can't know who are dealing with at sea until you come into fairly close contact, which can endanger you;
2) folks who sail in areas where they're unlikely to ever encounter migrants seem most enthusiastic about rendering assistance to them.

My latent point is, in case it's still not clear, I'm not very impressed by folks intent on moral posturing while actually doing nothing.
First off, no one really cares what impresses you. That’s not what we’re discussing (in case it’s still not clear to you). As for your “moral posturing” accusation ... you mean by expressing basic human compassion, and/or by quoting standard Admiralty law?

On your #1 point; of course you can’t know what you are dealing with until getting rather close. Duh…

Your #2 is pure opinion. I think everyone has said basically the same thing; that they would be cautious in rendering what aid was possible without endangering their own crew or vessel. It’s only you who seems to be saying something different.
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Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med!

Well put Mike.
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no one really cares what impresses you
In fact if he agreed with anything I thought I'd be concerned.

> expressing basic human compassion

amazing how far from Christ's teachings many self-professed "Christians" stray.

Yes, be cautious, but do your best to help.

In constant overblown fear, is no way to live.
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post #70 of 94 Old 03-30-2019
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Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants in the Med!

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Originally Posted by Seaman_3rdClass View Post

My latent point is, in case it's still not clear, I'm not very impressed by folks intent on moral posturing while actually doing nothing.
The risk in having a moral conscience is that, in the heat of a critical moment, one might not live up to the expressed ideal. I think we all get this. Still, when my raft is foundering in blue waters, I would much rather deal with someone who at least aspired to compassion, empathy, and so on.
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