"Dove" crew missing - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 47 Old 11-21-2019
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Re: "Dove" crew missing

Good God. I live near Penobscot Bay, although at the moment I'm looking out the window at Jost Van Dyke across Pillsbury Sound. When I spoke with my wife the other day, it was 14 friggin' degrees F in Maine. She wasn't happy I was down here working, and I was happy I wasn't performing morning snow removal. Back up on Tuesday.

Mid November is an incredibly bad time to do a delivery south. But it sounds like someone dropped the ball. SAR USCG should have been immediately contacted and called off. Sorry, but I agree this was as close to a fraudulent "remunerable" call as you can get.
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Last edited by VIEXILE; 11-21-2019 at 10:27 AM.
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post #22 of 47 Old 11-21-2019
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Re: "Dove" crew missing

It is a matter of local policy, but for the most part, you can't "unmake" a 911 call. If you even dial the number, say nothing and hang up, they will use your phone's location to dispatch police to investigate. When a mistake is made, we owe it in good faith to call them back and explain, I agree, but don't count on them to accept your explanation and do nothing.

A mayday call on a VHF can be cancelled, of course, but not a 911 phone call. It would be interesting to know what USCG's policy is on a situation like this.

We don't know because the skipper didn't think to call them and straighten it out. It's also quite possible, even likely, he had no idea there was a SAR effort out looking for him.
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post #23 of 47 Old 11-21-2019
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Re: "Dove" crew missing

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Originally Posted by bristol299bob View Post
This article reports on how they located them.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/missing-s...d-safe-journey
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post #24 of 47 Old 11-21-2019
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Re: "Dove" crew missing

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Originally Posted by bristol299bob View Post
This article reports on how they located them.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/missing-s...d-safe-journey
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post #25 of 47 Old 11-22-2019
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Re: "Dove" crew missing

No second guessing here. Just an absolutely DUMB ass time to head out of Somes Sound. Temps were in the single digits a few days ago, and "34F" when they headed out. Someone got some splanin' to do about the 3 AM phone 911 call that triggered all this. Even the old man says "I'm pissed, I want to know what the hell happened."
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post #26 of 47 Old 11-22-2019
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Re: "Dove" crew missing

There seems to be two camps--one for charging them full freight for this debacle, and one for not charging them at all.

What about a fine? Punishes folks for stupid things but doesn't bankrupt them like a full rescue cost could. I recently bought a PLB, and I believe that the instructions/literature mentioned fines.

The PLB also doesn't need a paid subscription for emergency calls like inReach, so those on a budget don't have a monthly charge.

People are always going to afford what they want to afford though anyway.
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post #27 of 47 Old 11-22-2019
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Re: "Dove" crew missing

I don't think that "obvious hoax" should be the criteria for forcing those triggering a very expensive search by calling 911 to take some responsibility for their misguided decision. If someone feels like they are in danger (even if it turns out to not be life threatening conditions) then they have acted in good faith when they call 911 and I wouldn't want to discourage that. But in this case someone apparently got scared and called 911 but then hung up or was forced to hang up by someone else aboard before they could explain that there was no emergency and no need for a search. It's not the initial calling of 911 (however unnecessary) that I have the biggest problem with, but rather it's the prematurely hanging up and apparently not making any effort to explain their actual situation so the search that the curtailed call predictably triggered could be curtailed or avoided altogether. Everybody knows you can't call 911, hang up and hope nobody notices. What they did wasn't a deliberate hoax but it was very irresponsible and cost a lot of money and effort on a lot of peoples part so all those aboard who had knowledge of this call and failed to contact the authorities to explain that there really was no emergency should be held responsible for the consequences their irresponsibility caused. I don't expect they can afford to pay for the whole rescue effort, but if it went down as the info we now have seems to indicate, they should be fined a very substantial amount of money.

Regarding earlier comments regarding Sartori, yes it's 20-20 hindsight to see what the lady or ladies did wrong, but that doesn't change that it's true and we shouldn't pretend otherwise. Their panicked action disrupted lots of peoples lives and cost a small fortune and had much wider consequences to lots of people than their "emergency" that wasn't an emergency deserved. I suppose it was ultimately the owner/skippers fault for taking on such inexperienced and undisciplined crew so in that sense he bears some responsibility for the temporary loss of his boat, but I'd say that about 90% of the blame goes to the panicked crewmember who called Mayday when the conditions didn't warrant it and when their captain had a plan in place and had experienced worse conditions on that same boat. It amounts to mutiny when a subordinate crewmember makes an irrevocable decision and takes action that effects the entire crew and the voyage. I'm not saying captains are always right but before a crewmember of any vessel decides to override the captains judgment and override his authority by doing something like calling Mayday unnecessarily, they better be very, very sure that they will be proven right or expect to never be asked to crew again. Part of signing up to go to sea as crew is implicitly agreeing to put your trust for your life in your captains hands and then reminding yourself of that whenever you have doubts. If you can't do that, don't sign on as crew under that captain. You can discuss your thoughts or worries or suggest alternate courses of action to your captain, but ultimately whatever he/she decides is the course of action you need to support to the very best of your ability. Apparently the ladies on Sartori didn't understand any of that and they should have.

Last edited by jtsailjt; 11-22-2019 at 10:55 AM.
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post #28 of 47 Old 11-22-2019
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Re: "Dove" crew missing

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Regarding earlier comments regarding Sartori, yes it's 20-20 hindsight to see what the lady or ladies did wrong, but that doesn't change that it's true and we shouldn't pretend otherwise. ..... I'd say that about 90% of the blame goes to the panicked crewmember who called Mayday when the conditions didn't warrant it and when their captain had a plan in place and had experienced worse conditions on that same boat. It amounts to mutiny when a subordinate crewmember makes an irrevocable decision and takes action that effects the entire crew and the voyage. I'm not saying captains are always right but before a crewmember of any vessel decides to override the captains judgment and override his authority by doing something like calling Mayday unnecessarily, they better be very, very sure that they will be proven right or expect to never be asked to crew again. Part of signing up to go to sea as crew is implicitly agreeing to put your trust for your life in your captains hands and then reminding yourself of that whenever you have doubts.
Unfortunately, the age old maritime laws of the British Navy don't exactly apply to a non-commercial pleasure craft, taking friends along on a pleasure cruise. It's not clear if their agreement was that they would serve as active crew, or if they were just invited along for the ride. For some people who are not experienced sailors, it may seem like the equivalent of saying, "I'm not comfortable with your driving. Pull to the side of the highway and let me out."
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post #29 of 47 Old 11-22-2019
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Re: "Dove" crew missing

Now we’ve graduated to MUTINY.

Bit of a reach or overeaction.


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post #30 of 47 Old 11-22-2019
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Re: "Dove" crew missing

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Now we’ve graduated to MUTINY.

Bit of a reach or overeaction.
Not at all a reach or overreaction to call what the crew of Sartori did to their skipper mutiny. The reference to mutiny was in the second paragraph where I was addressing what the two women did to the owner/circumnavigator/ skipper of Sartori, nothing to do with Dove. Their panicked overreaction to conditions the captain had experienced many times before at sea cost him, against his will, to be removed from his perfectly seaworthy vessel. That sounds a lot like mutiny to me. They substituted their own (limited) judgment for his and overthrew his authority and it was only luck that he ever got his sailboat back.

I don't think this Dove incident amounted to anything close to that and that's why I didn't say what you seem to be suggesting I said in reference to it, but rather was a case of one panicky crew member starting to call for help but then reconsidering or another crewmember intervening, but whatever happened here, whoever aboard knew about the aborted 911 call should have made it a top priority to notify SAR forces that they were indeed OK so nobody would be wasting their time out searching unnecessarily. Considering all the assets expended and people inconvenienced, those who caused it should have to bear some responsibility.

But both of these cases involved subordinate crewmembers panicking to the point of using their own judgment to at least momentarily override the captains. Crew members need to understand that the captain is the captain because he is the ONE who is entrusted to make all the big decisions aboard his boat. It's not a committee and it's not like in a car where you can ask to be let out on the side of the road at any time if you don't like what the driver is doing. Crew members need to understand and accept that, or not go to sea as crew.

Last edited by jtsailjt; 11-22-2019 at 06:36 PM.
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