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post #51 of 93 Old 09-16-2018
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Re: Marina destruction

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
In the interest of keeping this fact based, tell us about your legitimate claim that was denied. Otherwise I would suspect you are just making stuff up.
I will not bullied into giving out personal details by sanctimonious childish challenges but will say I have been battling a claim for over 2 years and it still isn't over.

That should be good enough for you. If not take a hike.

You should understand you are accusing me of unfounded claims by casting unfounded claims yourself. You are a real piece of work.

Last edited by ScottUK; 09-16-2018 at 02:45 AM.
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post #52 of 93 Old 09-16-2018
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Re: Marina destruction

I'm very sorry to hear that you're having to battle a claim. I can understand how privacy is required during the negotiations.

However, once it's over, the rest of us could learn if you're willing to share. If there's a hidden requirement or limitation in your endorsements, we could check our policies to see if we have similar language. If your company is less than ethical, we could avoid that company. There is all sorts of stuff we could gain from you sharing your learnings. But you are correct, you have no obligation to share.

It was not my intention to accuse you of unfounded claims. Do not take it personally. I've seen my fair share of made up stuff on this message board and others, so I frequently ask people to back up bold statements with actual facts. Your statement that "Insurance is an industry built on denying claims - legitimate or otherwise" qualified as a bold statement. However, given the experience you are having, I can now see that I was punching the wrong button.

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post #53 of 93 Old 09-16-2018
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Re: Marina destruction

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Originally Posted by ScottUK View Post
Insurance is an industry built on denying claims - legitimate or otherwise.
Attributing your experience to the entire industry is not right. Indeed, some keep their premiums lower, by aggressively managing payouts. There are others, who are much better, but you pay more. Unfortunately, most seem to shop price and get what they pay for.

I bet most have had frustrating experiences, in no small part because a claim is made under stressful circumstances. A loss. Nevertheless, there is a contract between the boat owner and the insurance company. It’s a bet, no different than a roulette table. The boat owner is betting they will have a loss, the insurance company is betting they won’t. The terms of that bet are very specific. What, how, value, required actions, exclusions, etc, etc. When buddies have had trouble, it’s usually because the event simply wasn’t covered. They hadn’t placed that bet, any more than asking to be paid out for a roulette number they didn’t bet on. I’ve had two marine claims in my lifetime. One was storm related, the other was from a collision, while I was tied up to a mooring (and asleep btw). Both paid fully and promptly.

Finally, for every legit story of an insurance company trying to withhold a claim, I can tell two of people trying to get free money from an insurance company, by inventing a claim. A very common one this time of year is hurricane haul coverage. Our marina’s winter storage contract is paid by the square foot of ground covered and is fully inclusive of hauling, bottom washing, blocking and launching. Every time there is a late season named storm, someone will ask the marina to haul them permanently for the winter, but split the bill for the hauling and launching so they can make a claim. The owner has suffered zero loss, they simply incurred their anticipated winter charges. The marina refuses to do it and be involved in the fraud. When Sandy hit many years back, I was already fully decommissioned and waiting to be hauled. It’s was something like Oct 30? Therefore, I made no claim. Others tried, some who had hauled weeks earlier.


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post #54 of 93 Old 09-16-2018
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Re: Marina destruction

I can understand why preparing your home could take precedence over preparing a boat when you know a natural disaster like this hurricane is headed your way. So you just write off your boat and take care of what's most important to you, I get that. But I don't understand how anyone could claim that leaving their boat at this marina, with a 10+ storm surge predicted several days in advance, was a rational thing to do unless they'd basically just given up.

Since I live in Maine I've never had to deal with this, but it seems to me from observing recent hurricane predictions and what actually happens, that it wouldn't be difficult to avoid having your boat exposed to the brunt of one of these monsters. At least 4 days prior to Florence coming onshore, the cone showed that landfall would be somewhere along the Carolinas, and probably in North Carolina, which is just what happened. I realize that hurricanes can swerve but given 4 days, if a boat owner had headed south 3 days prior to Florence, their boat could have been from a few hundred to several hundred miles from where the storm was predicted to hit and actually hit. Even that far away they might get some slightly higher than normal winds but nothing that a good anchor in the sheltered inland waterway couldn't handle. For those boaters who live in the southeastern US, is this a common storm tactic or am I missing something?

Again, I understand if someone decides that their boat just isn't their top priority and has to attend to other things first, but leaving a boat tied to floating docks with 10' pilings when a 10'+ storm surge along with 100mph winds is predicted well in advance doesn't seem like a viable strategy no matter how many dock lines or how much chafe gear is used.
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post #55 of 93 Old 09-16-2018
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Re: Marina destruction

To be fair heading down the ICW is not always easy, especially in a tall deep draft boat. At 63’ Air draft and 6-1/2’ water draft we are pretty much at the size limit, though some bigger have pushed through. Going through Georgia you sometimes have to wait for tide to move. Some places you may need a low tide to clear a bridge. Traveling at night is near impossible.

It don’t know, I might have headed North, up the Allegator-Pungo and then further up the sounds. But that is a pretty desolate area without much resources. Someone might feel real lonely there. A few years ago heading to Edenton our exhaust elbow broke off. We got a 10 hour tow to Roanoke. A whole lot of not much around there, we like it. But I think you would be pretty sage with sufficient ground tackle.

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Re: Marina destruction

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...given 4 days, if a boat owner had headed south 3 days prior to Florence, their boat could have been from a few hundred to several hundred miles from where the storm was predicted to hit and actually hit...
So you are suggesting that an average boat owner, who has a job to pay the bills, a house to prepare for the storm, and family to attend to, should leave ALL THAT behind for 3 days and move his boat (singlehanded?) several hundred miles away to areas that he's unfamiliar with, assuming the forecast is dead accurate and won't change to put him even more into harm's way. You're also assuming that this boat is capable of making this multi-day trip with no prior repairs and preparation.

As they say, "What could possibly go wrong?"

And, of course, if every one of the thousands of boats did the same thing, you'd have pandemonium, and potential for mass casualties if the forecast changed.

I can see maybe moving to a better marina (or hauling out), but those may have been at capacity, or bridges refusing to open to speed land-based evacuations, which prevented getting the boats out. Hopefully someone with local knowledge can provide facts.

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post #57 of 93 Old 09-16-2018
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Re: Marina destruction

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According to the National Weather Service at New Bern

Sept 13, 15:54 wind was 36mph with gusts 47mph.
Sept 13, 16:54 wind was 35mph with gusts 52mph.

These are the most recent numbers listed. Maybe check tomorrow for later numbers, they provide the last 3 days. Earlier figures were lower,


National Weather Service : Observed Weather for past 3 Days : New Bern, Craven County Regional Airport
I just took a quick peek at the site and then numbers posted above seem to reflect the highest winds recorded at that site.

That seems to be the only “objective” information I can come up with.

If these wind numbers hold true it kind of puts things in some perspective. This was not a wind event, those winds are just not that bad.

From what I can see so far it seems to me to be a combination of a marina not adequately designed for the task with the extreme storm surge.

Ironically not stripping sails may have not contributed much to the issue. Really hard to say looking a you tube. But that may be wrong, even furled sails add significant Wind load. Add a few boats with windage attached and the dock becomes stressed.

We have easily rode out 50+ knots on the hook and 60knots on a floating dock with sails on. Our neighbor (29’ bayyfield) didn’t do a neat job of furling and let a pocket of his Genoa get loose, that was impressive. Makes a believer of you in about 10 seconds. Windage on a 45’ tall cabin cruiser was stressing the dock and with any wave action it would have broken up quickely.

We rode out Gloria (?) and Sandy on a floating dock, very uncomfortable about that, watching the pilings slowly disappear. But we had done a lot to secure the docks, boats were tied tight to the docks, docks were anchored, boats were anchored, docks were tied to telephone poles. In short we made it all one structure and tried to secure it whole. Probably not possible at this marina.

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post #58 of 93 Old 09-16-2018
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Re: Marina destruction

@capta Your insistence on calling it New Boring is pretty childish; like you learned a new insult and just can't wait to use it as often as you can. Good for you.
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Re: Marina destruction

Having survived Katrina, I understand the hassle of living in Hurricane country. A storm is predicted to hit your area, so you secure your home, your business, secure your boat, pack up all your prized possessions. Help your family do the same. Move what you can out of the danger area. Then the storm changes directions. If you have not had your life turned upside down by a hurricane in the last decade you might get complacent. If you wait till the last moment to make sure the storm is going to hit your locale, you may have to choose between getting your mom out of the senior home or securing your boat. If you live on your boat, it is obviously your main concern, hopefully behind your parents well being. If your boat is only one of your responsibilities, you have to choose what is most important.


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A couple of years of that will have the insurance rates dropping back to reasonable rates and putting the responsibility for what happens to their boats right where it belongs, on the actual owners for their careless irresponsibility, and not on the rest of us, who do at least make an effort, to ensure the best chances for our boats' survival.
This should be factored in to insurance. The insurance companies should mandate, if you are facing a named storm, you must do the following: with a list of what is expected to be covered. A, B, C, D, E, F. If your choice is to evacuate your parents instead of securing your boat, and you boat is pulled off the bottom of the marina with all canvas and 5/16" dock lines the insurer is off the hook.
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post #60 of 93 Old 09-16-2018 Thread Starter
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Re: Marina destruction

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@capta Your insistence on calling it New Boring is pretty childish; like you learned a new insult and just can't wait to use it as often as you can. Good for you.
If you had spent a whole BORING summer in a place where the closest supermarket was a $12.00 cab ride (each way) from the marina, as was the cinema and malls, with no public transport available and the only thing open after 6 PM was the hotel/marina bar, I'm sure you would consider the place way boring, too.
Services for boats and repairs were non-existent, further frustrating and complicating my stay.
Few to no residents, restaurants or any other entertainment in the area close enough to the marina to walk to didn't help any.
Maybe it has changed, but it wasn't an interesting enough place to have bothered to go to back then for any reason I could see, so I doubt it will entice me back to change my mind, now.
It will forever be etched in my mind as one of the worst places on this planet I've wasted 6 months of my life in. So, New Boring it is, and shall forever be!
And gee whiz, I am so sorry you don't like my impression of the place.
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