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post #211 of 319 Old 10-16-2018
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Re: Will climate change change your sailing plans

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So supply has tracked demand, which is driven by population growth, thanks to farming technology. This doesn’t disprove ACC at all, in fact, petroleum-fueled productivity gains and clear cutting to expand farmland have both increased carbon emissions, which have a deferred effect on climate.
Would you prefer we reduce carbon emissions and starve humanity?

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post #212 of 319 Old 10-16-2018
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Re: Will climate change change your sailing plans

Can we just get one thread beyond the naive assumption that scientists don't know that " climate is always changing" ??


They know that. If that's not enough for you let me repeat: Obviously, all climate scientists know that climate is always changing.OK??.
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post #213 of 319 Old 10-16-2018
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Re: Will climate change change your sailing plans

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Can we just get one thread beyond the naive assumption that scientists don't know that " climate is always changing" ??


They know that. If that's not enough for you let me repeat: Obviously, all climate scientists know that climate is always changing.OK??.
The reason this isn't going to happen, is because the extreme fringes are small but vocal. I believe for every actual denier (those who do not believe climate is changing), there are an equal number on the opposite end that believe humans are the only reason it's changing and that we could stop it from changing. Neither are true. Neither are all that significant a population.

Those that claim the global cost to effectively avoid the tipping point of climate change would be more expensive than the actual affect of climate change is not denying. But anyone who doesn't agree that focusing our time and resources on carbon reduction, as our primary defense, is branded as one. Incorrectly. It causes pushback.

The bottom line is, the extreme fringes get all the attention, but the masses are still left with a difficult puzzle and we waste our time whining about the fringes, calling names and arguing. Maybe we should start asking ourselves, what if it doesn't work.
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Re: Will climate change change your sailing plans

The deniers miss the basic demonstrated fact that beyond the cycles of climate due to natural phenomena since the introduction of wide spread industrial society there as been a fundamental shift. Yes there have always been periods of cooling and heating. Yes there have always been periods of increased or decreased storm occurrence. This is a given. However, all analyses demonstrate that the current tread is outside chance alone and outside the envelope expected due to natural cycling or natural phenomena. Furthermore it matches what is expected from mans interventions i. e. heat trapping gases(cow farts,CO2,methane leaks, etc.), changes in reflectivity, changes in CO2 capture by land flora and ocean.
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post #215 of 319 Old 10-16-2018
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The climate is always changing

I have never heard anyone say that the climate doesn't change. We all learned about the ice age in high school.

I see this in comments on your tube videos, I see it here, I see it on Facebook. I assume its in conversations.

" The climate is always changing" as if that little nugget of homespun wisdom has never occurred to climate scientists.

In reality its a reflection of the ignorance of some people. Its right up there with " the earth will heal itself" or my old idiotic Italian relatives practicing Santeria... they give up their arthritis medicine for garlic and honey///..I'm not even thinking about convincing someone, or winning an argument at this point - I just hate b.s. I guess I am becoming an angry old man, but I have had enough b.s. for a lifetime.

Of course scientists study and take into account the factors which produce changes and stability in the climate. If course they have various models which they compare. They are scientists.
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Re: Will climate change change your sailing plans

I don't see it as BS to reiterate that the climate is going to change and always has. There are just as many on the opposite spectrum from the deniers that think they can stop planetary evolution, stop all species extinctions and that the coral reefs were meant to be here forever, even though they're a recent planetary development. The refined point is that it's going to happen, regardless of what we try to do about it. It's just a question of when and scientists have been relatively poor at predicting when. It's like predicting the economy, you can predict what direction something is going or when it will get there, but almost never both.

If one accepts that it's inevitable, it should change one's response. The argument is over whether we have the power to change it. I don't think we do. First, I don't think we have sufficient technology. Second, it's inconceivable that we can coop the entire planet. We can't even coop the members here. That's a simple, if not frustrating, reality. Being angry changes nothing, it only emboldens the opposition.

Prepare for the inevitable. Stop wasting time. Stop rebuilding the shorelines.


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post #217 of 319 Old 10-16-2018
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Re: Will climate change change your sailing plans

There is truth, there are lies and there are also half truths which are used to confuse people. This idea that there are deniers on both sides *edit- seems like a false equivalency. You are stuck on the wrong side of history and science, and I suspect you know it. Nothing is inevitable, except death. When we get the will to reduce carbon emissions, we can do it. I used to think it would get worse and people would change opinions, but I think Tom is right. It takes a younger generation that sees it.
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Re: Will climate change change your sailing plans

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Can we just get one thread beyond the naive assumption that scientists don't know that " climate is always changing" ??

They know that. If that's not enough for you let me repeat: Obviously, all climate scientists know that climate is always changing.OK??.
I'm not really on either bandwagon (although I tend to the sceptical side) but the thing that finally convinced me to put away the "climate is always changing" idea was a timeline I saw in the Royal British Columbia Museum.

It tracked global temperature from a bazillion years ago in a long graph (like 50 feet) with the temperature rising and falling in these long curves during the various eras. Until recently. Unlike any other time in the last couple hundred million years, now the curve isn't a curve. It is a spike. What does this prove? I don't know enough to say it proves everything climate scientists say is happening, but it sure as heck disproves the theory that this isn't a unique, man-made phenomenon. At least to me.

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post #219 of 319 Old 10-16-2018
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Re: Will climate change change your sailing plans

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Such a great point. Just like gay rights. That generation doesn't have a doubt or understand those who do. Then again, its Brooklyn which is rich, highly educated and right on the ocean.

Part of the problem is they share two senators with 20 million other people, whereas Wyoming has two senators, both climate change deniers, for half a million people.
Gay rights, that's a better analogy Sal for how millennials are changing. LGBT, racism, sexism - not just my own - but kids in general,...these are NOT issues for them!

You think they will question making changes in their lives to lessen damage on the planet they live on?

Will they save the planet? I hope so but indicators make that a tough task. But they - as a generation - sure as hell won't adopt a 'forgetaboutit' attitude.

Brooklyn true, but they grew up in Maine so I co-parented a lot of kids from a wider spectrum and they were similar in the above thinking.

We elected a climate denier gov., TWICE in Maine, thanks to a split vote.

Maines, Gov. Lepage's claim to fame is, "I was Trump before Trump". He spoke the truth, we've since found out.

He's vetoed everything but managed to get fireworks legalized and the speed limit raised to 70 on I95, in 8 years.

Thank god for term limits, his is up in a few weeks.

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Last edited by TomMaine; 10-16-2018 at 12:38 PM.
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post #220 of 319 Old 10-16-2018
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Re: Will climate change change your sailing plans

This seems like it might affect sailing plans...

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41477-018-0263-1
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