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1979 C&C 30 Mk I - 2QM15
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Discussion Starter #1
I'm trying to whittle down my short list of the boats I've found so far and I need a little help with specs on a 1979 C&C 30.

This particular C&C 30 is going for a decent price (12k asking), but I have concerns about the deck. During my initial inspection I noted that every single stanchion is showing hairline gelcoat cracking around the bases. But they all seem to be solid, (no noticeable wiggle).

Does anyone know if the 1979 C&C 30 has a solid deck or a cored deck?

I'm assuming if it's a solid deck that backing plates, rebedding, and some gelcoat work will correct the problem and this isn't a serious structural issue.

But if it's a cored deck and water has invaded those cracks, this boat could require some major $$$'s and deck repairs to correct the problem.
 

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It has a cored deck, as do the vast majority of boats. BUT... The coring usually stops inboard of the toerail and the stanchions and toerail (which holds the boat together) are almost always mounted on solid fibreglass. In the case of a stanchion base with three screws, the inboard screw sometimes does pierce the core.

The crazing that you see at the stanchion bases is normal and not something to worry about too much. A surveyor can tell you what's going on there.

The link below will take you to a website that has vast amounts of information on C & C's:

C&C Yachts - C&C Photo Album & Resource Center
 

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The C&C 30 Mark I is a wonderful boat, I owned a '77 for a number of years and I would buy it back in a minute. Craziing around the stanchions would not be unusual on most any boat of that age, and would not be a sign of weakness, nor increase the risk of a wet core. So ignore that concern and move on...

To the general concern that ANY older boat could have areas of wet decks from aged or improper bedded fittings. 99% of the boats you will look at will have balsa-cored decks, where testing for wet decks is one of the many reasons you hire a competent survey.

$12k for a C&C 30 would be a lot of boat for little money, I would expect the boat to need some work or upgrades as models of that age typically list for twice that price. So don't expect perfection, you are buying onto a quality boat at a budget price, there'll be reasons why.
 

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1979 C&C 30 Mk I - 2QM15
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Discussion Starter #4
It's on the top of my list of considerations for just that reason... It could use some upgrades to things like older style deck hardware, which could be done over time since everything there still works. The previous owner was afraid of the pressurized alcohol stove so it was taken out and tossed in a dumpster without a replacement. The ice box was broken at some point and removed. The teak needs to be refinished. And I'm sure the windows could probably stand to be rebedded. But the rest just appears to be cosmetic clean up.

I think my last real concern is the 16hp Yanmar. I can't really get a history on it other than the previous owner saying that she had it serviced once a year and didn't have any problems with it, (probably just an annual oil and filter change). And the marina owner said it came in under power so he knows that it was working before he hauled it.

You definitely couldn't eat off of it, but at least she wasn't one of those people that spray paints the whole thing silver (including hoses) to try and hide the condition.

So if I assume 40 hours a year without any sort of rebuild ever being done, that would be about 1200 hours... What's the average life expectancy of this engine?

What would I be looking at for an average rebuild/overhaul cost just to put it back into nearly good as new condition?
 

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....
What would I be looking at for an average rebuild/overhaul cost just to put it back into nearly good as new condition?
As a ballpark, you would spend about twice the purchase price difference between this boat and one of the sisterships listed at $28,000, which is to say in the area of $30,000, you might save half of this money if you did all the work yourself, although it would be the equivalent of a second job.

If you want to save some money...grab the $28,000 example right out, let the seller take the loss on all the upgrades they've made (assuming the boat is in fact an example worth $28,000). You buy one for only $12,000 and you either live happily with a tired puppy for the life of your ownership, or you get on the money train and spend, spend, spend. The cheap way to own a mint boat is to pay the premium to buy someone else's diamond...the expensive way is to do it yourself.
 

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1979 C&C 30 Mk I - 2QM15
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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. I was asking for the average cost to eventually rebuild/overhaul the 16hp Yanmar "Engine Only".

For the rest of the boat, I'm fine with doing the labor myself over time since most of the work is cosmetic in nature and doesn't affect the boat's sailability. Getting out on the water with a boat that is seaworthy for only $12k doesn't sound like bad deal to me.

Just out of curiosity... Where did you come up with the 28K figure? Is that what you're seeing as an average price for this model and year boat?
 

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...Just out of curiosity... Where did you come up with the 28K figure? Is that what you're seeing as an average price for this model and year boat?
Certainly not the average price, more what I'd call the mean high water price.

I used this search for reference 1972 C&C Boats For Sale

I'd say you are grossly underestimating the expense of upgrading an older boat...while the engine rebuild/replacement, at say $7-9,000, is the biggest single expenditure (given you are looking at a boat with a robust solid glass hull), it ain't hard to find another $20,000 in probable costs, if not made by a PO...but the learning experiences of buying cheap and paying again and again is one of the charms of boat ownership. It all depends on your expectations...
 

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1979 C&C 30 Mk I - 2QM15
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Discussion Starter #8
I'm not looking to restore the boat to the point where it's looks like a brand new boat. And I'm not trying to upgrade it to race ready condition or for long haul cruising. I just want to put a little lipstick on the pig so to speak and keep it sail-able and seaworthy mostly for Fair weather Chesapeake Bay pleasure sailing and the occasional overnight to St Michaels, Oxford, etc.

I figure I'll keep it for a few years, and then take whatever I can get out of it to use as a down payment on my next boat.

Doesn't that seem like a reasonable expectation?
 

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The Yanmar is a known reliable engine. Rebuilding is an option and certainly cheaper than a replacement. Is it freshwater cooled or raw water? A good insurance policy would to have a competent Yanmar engine guy go over it and do a compression test before you buy the the boat. 1200 hours is not that much if the boat has been properly maintained.

The $12,000 cost seems reasonable if the boat is in overall good condition. What condition are the hatches and portlights. Make sure the cockpit sole is thoroughly checked out by your surveyor. What about the sail inventory and roller furling. Replacing standing or running rigging can get expensive.

Bottom line- make a spreadsheet of all that you thing would need to be replaced or repaired. Add the total cost to your purchase price and see if it makes any sense. My guess is that the total exceeds $18,000 you could do better with a different boat. Try looking for a Great Lakes boat. They usually have lot less wear for the same age boat.
 

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30 C&C is a good solid boat for what you are looking for. Our 85 35 MKIII has a yanmar 30GM with 1200 hours and is just broken in. These engines with care go for 4 times that. Hoses, fuel water and oil pumps, injectors will cost about 3 grand. Good Yanmar dealer and mechanics in Rock Hall, and Mr Oliver in Stevensville are Yanmar specialists. Feel free to PM me.

Dave
 

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1979 C&C 30 Mk I - 2QM15
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Discussion Starter #11
The $12,000 cost seems reasonable if the boat is in overall good condition. What condition are the hatches and portlights. Make sure the cockpit sole is thoroughly checked out by your surveyor. What about the sail inventory and roller furling. Replacing standing or running rigging can get expensive.

Bottom line- make a spreadsheet of all that you thing would need to be replaced or repaired. Add the total cost to your purchase price and see if it makes any sense. My guess is that the total exceeds $18,000 you could do better with a different boat.
I'm doing just that right now... I went down for a second inspection with my digital camera today and took about 80 pictures of every nook, cranny, crack, chip, and smudge I could find on the boat. I'm putting together a list of what I found. The standing and running rigging are in good working order. The engine looks to be in fairly good shape, and the hull and deck have no major damage.

Most of what I'm finding seems to be cosmetic issues that I can fix over time like:

- gelcoat cracks around hardware that needs to be rebedded
- screws missing
- mounting holes in the deck for things that were moved or removed over time that were plugged with caulk but never really sanded to blend in with the deck
- teak that could use some re-oiling or satin varnish
- sloppy pvc caulk around windows that need to be removed and rebedded properly

I'm probably a little anal when it comes to attention to detail. So I probably would need to fix things other people would just live with. I can see myself starting at one end of the boat and working to the other end on my free evenings knocking out each imperfection one by one.

I think I'll be putting a lot of sweat equity into this boat if I go ahead with an offer. But I think most of my expense is going to be in cleaning materials, caulk, gelcoat, epoxy, nuts&bolts, teak oil, wax, 3M pads, etc...
 

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I have a general rule regarding boats. It seems to have borne itself out over time : For every model of boat in decent condition, there is an average price. You may pay it all upfront or you may buy low pay it as you upgrade, but you will end up paying it.

So a C&C 30 is roughly a 30K boat. The one that you are going to buy for 12K is going to cost a fair bit to bring back. There will be fittings that are worn out, sails that need replacing, a stove of some kind to be fitted, teak and varnish to be purchased, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

I am willing to wager that you'll spend at least 30K on her over a four to five year period. At her age, things will be worn out and unserviceable. If they had been replaced recently the boat would be selling for more money. If they were not particularly expensive, the current owner would have repaired them in order to sell the boat for a better price.

I don't wish to discourage you but you need to be aware that there are an awful lot of things that you can't see that could need work.. Get a good surveyor. :)
 

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1979 C&C 30 Mk I - 2QM15
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Discussion Starter #13
The method to my madness is as follows:

1. Inspect her stem to stern myself for everything I can find on my own

2. Make an offer based on a fair balance between the asking price and the items that need to be fixed.

3. If the offer is accepted, make the actual follow through purchase contingent on the surveyor's report.

I fully understand the pay me now or pay me later concept of buying a used boat. I'm looking to the latter to get myself out on the water with a low entry fee. The boat just needs to be surveyed as structurally solid, sail-able, seaworthy, and the repairs that "are" needed are primarily cosmetic rather than structural or mechanical in nature.
 

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1979 C&C 30 Mk I - 2QM15
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Discussion Starter #14
Can the hull # be derived from the HIN # (e.g. where the boat was in the building series for C&C 30's) ? Or do you have to find it somewhere else?

If so, how do you find it?
 

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......The boat just needs to be surveyed as structurally solid, sail-able, seaworthy, and the repairs that "are" needed are primarily cosmetic rather than structural or mechanical in nature.
You are off on the right foot in that the C&C 30 Mark I is a very desirable boat, one well worth the care, attention, and investment dollars of a serious boater. Her sailing qualities will make you smile for years to come.

Two suggestions for your plan, include an engine survey (especially a compression test) and don't expect to make some sort of killing on the purchase price, understand you are buying a quality boat, it'll cost some dough...
 

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1979 C&C 30 Mk I - 2QM15
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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
I think 12k is a pretty good price when compared to the market values. I think the only reason it's selling this low is because the previous owner sailed her but never really did any kind of upkeep. So there are a lot of relatively minor cosmetic issues that make the boat not show so well as compared to many others that are on the spring market. But I'm looking past the minor imperfections at a very solid boat that just needs a little clean up and sweat equity to bring her back.

I'm definitely getting the boat surveyed. But I'm a first time boat buyer. So when you mention an "engine survey". Is the engine usually surveyed separately from the rest of the boat. Or does the typical $10-$15 per foot survey rate include everything (hull, deck, engine, rigging, etc...)?

Question: Typically, do you have the survey done before you make an offer, or after the offer is made and accepted (making the final purchase contingent on the survey results)?
 

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Backcreek, make a fair offer contingent on acceptable survey. That way you can negotiate a better price to fix any non obvious issues. Late last year I bought a 1985 C&C 29-2 with an offer of 19k. After the survey the price was renegotiated to 14K to address some issues. This spring, the issues are being fixed with the 5K difference.
 

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.... Is the engine usually surveyed separately from the rest of the boat. Or does the typical $10-$15 per foot survey rate include everything (hull, deck, engine, rigging, etc...)?

Question: Typically, do you have the survey done before you make an offer, or after the offer is made and accepted (making the final purchase contingent on the survey results)?
Most surveyors do not survey the engine, they may include a general observation on condition, or on performance if a sea trial is done. Neither substitutes for the paid opinion of an expert diesel mechanic, especially the compression test (and trust me, I learned this fact the hard and very expensive way...). Depending on the boat surveyor and his expertise and scope, you may also want to hire a rigger to survey the rig.

You have the surveys done after your offer is accepted, the offer should allow a 4 weeks period for surveys, during which you can terminate the sale, with no explanation of why required. If a survey brings up a material, expensive surprise, after terminating the sale, you can make the seller aware of the surprise and offer to negotiate a new sale price that thakes the surprise into consideration.


See http://www.willismarine.com/uploads/103/YBAA_Purchase_and_Sale_Agreement_2008.pdf for a standard agreement, mark it up as needed for your circumstances. You can write in for the escrow amount to be released after a sea trial and/or delivery of all inventory if such seems necessary..

It's interesting that this agreement now has sale termination as the no-notice-received default at the end of the survey period, not acceptance, I think this new...
 

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1979 C&C 30 Mk I - 2QM15
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172 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I've looked her over stem to stern twice and went through all the pre-survey inspection tips listed here at sailnet. So I'm going to take one last look at her today and review the last survey done back in 2003 before I go ahead and make an initial offer.

I talked to a marine surveyor about doing an engine survey on the Yanmar 2QM15 today and he told me that other than a visual inspection and startup test to make sure it starts easily, the tests that can be done on land are pretty minimal. He said it needs to be sea-trialed to really get anything out of a marine survey.

Is it worth paying a marine mechanic to start it up on the hard and look it over? Or is letting the hull surveyor do the visual checks as a part of the inspection he'll do anyway and just cranking it up on the hard from a cold start to make sure it fires right up good enough?
 

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...before I go ahead and make an initial offer.
....
Is it worth paying a marine mechanic to start it up on the hard and look it over? Or is letting the hull surveyor do the visual checks as a part of the inspection he'll do anyway and just cranking it up on the hard from a cold start to make sure it fires right up good enough?
Realize going into the offer that you should be ready for it to be your final offer..ie.e if accepted, you will be expected to pay that amount...don't assume the survey will give you license to reduce the agreed price, not to say that it may not.

You should talk with a good Yanmar mechanic about going over the engine to include a compression test. That the surveyor didn't recommend an engine survey, and in particular the compression test, causes me to question his/her level of expertise and to recommend that you find someone else. I'll bet if you look at one of his surveys, he disallows any responsibility for engine condition (and probably rig too..) as seems common for hull surveys.
 
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