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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I had posted this post on the thread about 2010 America cup. I will continue here, sice we are talking about the 2013 edition:

It is not official but I have heard that the next cup will be raced on big cats (77ft) with a fixed wing.

I don't mind the cats, but I am affraid that the budget to build and race those machines would be so big that most of the teams would have no means to compete.

Regards

Paulo
Well, its is official now. The Cup is going to be raced on big and expensive cats with a fixed wing (72ft boat with a 130ft mast).

http://www.cupinfo.com/en/ggyccnr34-multihull-2013-americas-cup-transformed-details-10035.php

http://www.cupinfo.com/en/ggyccnr34-new-ac72-catamaran-for-2013-americas-cup-10036.php

But they have promised a level playing field:

"Russell Coutts and Larry Ellison [head of BMW Oracle] promised Challengers a level playing field - giving teams a fair chance of winning; neutral event management and cost containment."

http://www.asser.nl/Default.aspx?site_id=11&level1=13914&level2=13931&textid=38163

Well, it seems that it was not only me that had doubts about that fixed wing, costs and ability to compete at equal terms. I have said that I was afraid that the budget to build and race those machines would be too big for most of the teams to compete in equal terms.

It seems I was right. One of the main contenders, the British (Teamorigin) just pulled out from the next cup. They say:

Britain is pulling out of one of the pinnacle events in world yacht racing, the America’s Cup:

"A shortage of both cash and time have persuaded the boss of Team Origin, Sir Keith Mills, to abandon hopes of challenging the current holder, the San Francisco-based BMW-Oracle, in 2013.... I am bitterly disappointed that we will not be competing. The format and timetable decided by the defender is simply not viable.” ...

It is believed that, apart from the Italian challenger of record, Vincenzo Onorato’s Mascalzone Latino, the Swedish Artemis team and Team New Zealand, many other potential challengers have been daunted.

Simmer recently told The Independent that he thought the budget needed to win was well in excess of £100m " (USD 160,000,000).

Team Origin pull out of America's Cup - Sailing, More Sports - The Independent

Regards

Paulo
 

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The AC is becoming very 'sad' as the clear advantage automatically goes to those with the 'deepest pockets' and excludes those who cant afford the meteoric rising costs to 'play'.

This is not 'racing', it's 'bluffing with money'; bluffing with so much money that all the other competitors are forced to 'fold'. The name of the AC should be changed to "I Can Spend More Dough, Than You Can - Cup".
 

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Well I guess it was the cost that ultimately killed off the J-Boats which led post WWII to the 12 metres and the post war resurgence that made the AmCup the prestigious event that it once again became.

Personally I find the idea of spending USD150.000.000 on a boat race obscene. Particularly as none of it ends up in my pocket. :)

Problem is I guess that mono hull match racing makes for pretty boring TV. Funnily enough of course the fastest AMCup boats of all time failed to get any TV coverage in many parts of the world.
 

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When did they stop using monohull in Am Cup?
This 2010 America's Cup was the first all multi hull event. Dennis Connor (Stars and Stripes US-1) previously raced one against the Big Boat , New Zealand (KZ-1), a 120' monohull in 1988.
 

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America's Cup has gone back to being a rich man's, elitist sport. Done now by professional sailors to win a trophy for the wealthiest who can afford it.

I watched the recent Cup race and was awed by the technology and at the same time saddened. Amazing technology but I think the spirit of the thing has been lost and gone back to nothing but an item of prestige and ego.

Admittedly, if I had Larry Ellison's money, I'd be doing the exact same thing. But after having gotten my fill of having the Cup for a few years and shown it off and lapsing into demented fantasy, I'd declare the next challenge for the Cup would be raced by 2-3 man dinghies that would have to made out of materials found at Home Depot except for sails, which would have to be cotton. Only standard wire rigging and conventional polyester lines allowed. Let the fun ensue! Competitive for the biggest yacht clubs and syndicates down to the backyard boatbuilder and their friends.

That would be a race and contest worth watching. It would be the biggest Challenge in history. The money I would save from building the super racer I would use to buy prime time slots to broadcast it to everyone.

Matt
 

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Discussion Starter #7
...
Personally I find the idea of spending USD150.000.000 on a boat race obscene. :)

Problem is I guess that mono hull match racing makes for pretty boring TV. Funnily enough of course the fastest AMCup boats of all time failed to get any TV coverage in many parts of the world.

Andrews,

The problem is not the money. Sir Keith Mills, from the Origin team explains correctly the problem:"The format and timetable decided by the defender is simply not viable.”

By viable format he means that as it is proposed there is no way for the AC to be economically viable. This means that the race will not be able to generate the money (publicity and broadcasting rights) to pay itself (and each of the boats).

If the race could generate enough money to pay a reasonable number of $160M campaigns, I would not see any problem with it.

As it is, as RichH have said :"The AC is becoming very 'sad' as the clear advantage automatically goes to those with the 'deepest pockets' and excludes those who can’t afford the meteoric rising costs to 'play'."

Regarding Monohulls versus Multihulls I would like to point out that the previous edition (monohulls) generated a lot more public interest (a lot is not enough to express the difference) than the last one ( multihulls).

I was in Valencia both times and you cannot imagine how miserable poor was the last edition.

Public interest means money!!!!and money means that the teams are paid with that money.

I believe that both monohulls and multihulls can make interesting races if the boats are fast and spectacular. But for interesting races it is also needed a considerable number of contenders and boats and teams very close on performance.

The chosen boats will be fast and spectacular, but we are going to have boring races if the contenders are only one or two, with no matched performances.

Regards

Paulo
 

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Paulo,
My thinking is that by the time the 2010 challenge finally arrived everyone was bored to tears by the whole fiasco.
Now while the previous event gained more world wide media attention it didn't get a lot of television coverage did it ?
Certainly neither free to air nor cable/satellite picked up the rights in Australia.
I don't know about the rest of world.
One of the problems to be faced is that the Little America's Cup is now indistinguishable from the Big AC in everything except the size of the boats and the multi hull regatta that was held recently (I forget the name) also takes away from the AC.
Me, I reckon what fuels the AC is nationalism. This last schemozzle took that away. While everyone should have been cheering on the Swiss underdog v the might of the Evil Empire, Bertarelli managed to alienate almost the entire planet. What a nonsense.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
....
Now while the previous event gained more world wide media attention it didn't get a lot of television coverage did it ?
Certainly neither free to air nor cable/satellite picked up the rights in Australia.
I don't know about the rest of world.
....
Me, I reckon what fuels the AC is nationalism. This last schemozzle took that away. While everyone should have been cheering on the Swiss underdog v the might of the Evil Empire, Bertarelli managed to alienate almost the entire planet. What a nonsense.
Andrew,

I disagree with your first statement and I agree with the second one.

It is very important that the AC have many contenders from all the world. If we want a world event we have to have participants from all the world and healthy Nationalism has a role to play.

Personally, back on 2007, I was supporting the NZ team and not Alinghy (the European finalist) and I was not the only European doing that. I guess that we really would like to see a billionaire with huge resources been beaten by a much smaller and "poor" team, from a small country with a big racing tradition.:)

Regarding your first statement I don't see that way. In 2007 America's cup was already one of the world's big event, with huge coverage. That edition was the really big one, in public interest (much bigger than the previous). Things where going well for sailing as a sport, and if the 2010 edition was on a continuing route (with bigger and faster, but affordable boats, as it was meant to be) I am quite sure the 2010 edition would have been a much bigger world's sport event (comparing with 2007).

To just give you an idea between the size and importance of the two editions, have a look at some numbers:

2007 edition: Organizing Budget - 230,000,000€
Economic Impact - 7,000,000,000€

2010 edition: Organizing Budget - 8,000,000€
Economic Impact - less than 700,000,000€

And it is important to say that 500,000,000 € where spent on the boats, and less than 200,000,000 on things to do with public interest.

If we take the Organizing Budget as a measure, the last edition was 44 times smaller than the one from 2007 and you could feel that on the coverage and on the spot (Valencia).

The 2007 edition had a 66,000,000 € profit (shared by the 12 teams). the 2010 edition had a huge deficit, a deficit of hundreds millions of euros.

as professor Canon has said, the America's cup : “From being one of the four or five biggest sports events, it’s become frankly parochial.”

America’s Cup Sinks as Bertarelli-Ellison Fight Sours Santander - Bloomberg

And sadly it seems that the 2013 edition is not going to be much better:(

And Andrews, I don't find this boring:

YouTube - Official Podcast of the 32nd America's Cup: Match day 7

Of course, the boats are "old shoes:D ", but if you changed those by moder fast monohulls or multihulls, bigger but affordable, we would have a great 2013 America's cup.

By the way, why to they insist in call it America's cup? Should not be America cup?

Regards

Paulo
 

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The AC is becoming very 'sad' as the clear advantage automatically goes to those with the 'deepest pockets' and excludes those who cant afford the meteoric rising costs to 'play'.

This is not 'racing', it's 'bluffing with money'; bluffing with so much money that all the other competitors are forced to 'fold'. The name of the AC should be changed to "I Can Spend More Dough, Than You Can - Cup".
+1

Any competition where lawyers need to get involved takes a little wind out of the sails for me. Whatever happened to racing being a gentleman's sport?

It seems the AC has lost it's way and it's not the mettle of the crew that captures the cup but how technologically advanced the boat is. Might as well have armchair helmsman operating a joystick from a remote location.

I would like to see the AC get back to racing one design monohulls since it's what most of us can relate to.
 

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By the way, why to they insist in call it America's cup? Should not be America cup?
The America's Cup was originally an 100-guinea silver trophy offered by the Royal Yacht Squadron to the winner of a race around the Isle of Wight on August 22, 1851. John Cox Stevens, a wealthy New Jersey real estate broker and founder of the New York Yacht Club, organized a syndicate of five other club members that commissioned William H. Brown in 1850 to construct a yacht "to race against the best the British had to offer." Following the design by George Steers, Brown finished America in 1851, in time for Stevens to accept an invitation from the Royal Yacht Squadron to enter its race around the Isle of Wight. Pitted against seventeen seasoned British boats, America started poorly but finished with a commanding lead and won the cup. In response to the win by America, the Spirit of the Times observed that "old England was no match for young America." Stevens accepted the cup, naming it after his yacht, and kept it on display at his Annandale, New Jersey estate. After his death in 1857, it became a trust of the New York Yacht Club "as a permanent challenge cup, open to competition by any organized yacht club of any foreign country."
 

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Yes, I know that. The America that refers to America's Cup is a Cup named America, not a country. So it should be America's cup or America cup?
It's the boat that is named America, not the cup...hence, it's America's Cup denoting that the cup belongs to the boat named America. If the boat was named Fred, it might have been called Fred's Cup, not Fred Cup...:D
 

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It's the boat that is named America, not the cup...hence, it's America's Cup denoting that the cup belongs to the boat named America. If the boat was named Fred, it might have been called Fred's Cup, not Fred Cup...:D
Would the boat still be a "her" or a "she"?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
It's the boat that is named America, not the cup...hence, it's America's Cup denoting that the cup belongs to the boat named America. If the boat was named Fred, it might have been called Fred's Cup, not Fred Cup...:D
Hum, only half convinced:
The America's Cup was originally an 100-guinea silver trophy offered by the Royal Yacht Squadron to the winner of a race around the Isle of Wight on August 22, 1851. .. Stevens accepted the cup, naming it after his yacht,...."
If he named the Cup after his yacht, then the Cup is the Cup AMERICA. The yacht America is story, the Cup America is nor well:D but still exists. So if we are referring to a Cup called America it seems to me that it should be America cup:)

Regards

Paulo
 

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Paulo,

I wasn't certain as to how much media attention the 2007 AC (A'sC ?) received world wide. It certainly didn't get much attention in Australia, perhaps only because there was no Australian boat. The last Australian challenge folded....:eek: went down like an ice cold Fosters. :)


If the original winner (John Stevens) named the cup after his boat then it should by rights simply be The Cup America but if his naming was a nod to his boat then yes it should be America's Cup. I suspect he would have intended the cup to be dedicated to the yacht America and so America's Cup would be correct.

Oh yes....just to be clear about it, I really like watching mono hull match racing, be it live or on TV. The multi hull thing is for me a one trick pony. I agree with you that the Cup should be fought between state of the art mono hulls. Quite frankly with much more of an emphasis on national identities.

That is, I fear, a cause that is well and truely lost. Which is sad.
 

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If he named the Cup after his yacht, then the Cup is the Cup AMERICA. The yacht America is story, the Cup America is nor well:D but still exists. So if we are referring to a Cup called America it seems to me that it should be America cup:)

Regards

Paulo
Paulo,

No one ever said American English is an easy language.... should that be American's English or English American?..:laugher

Take an easy nautical word......port. In English, it can have three meanings:

1: "port" side of the boat
2: there are many ships in "port" today?
3: can I offer you a glass of "port"?

But we're going off topic.....we've got the cup back and life is good! I would rather see the next AC defended in Newport but it looks like SF will be the venue.
 

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I have to admit, I have not looked at the cup since the 12M went away!

Maybe they should use Farr 40's like the Candian cup?!?!? something done in the great lakes tween the US and Canada, might be some other country's involved too. Then it is easy(er) to get country teams together, teams of excellent racers that are not pro, that might be able to beat pro's on any given day too, keep it short, sweet........

Probably not in my life time again......

On the other hand, going with expensive boats as it currently is going, maybe the AC will have new tech to bring down to us lower land peons. Where as it seems like the new tech is coming from the different SH and crewed around the globe races, SH/DH boats in the 30' range of boats or mini transats for that matter.

Then again, my opin and ramblings, does it count?!?!? who knows. In the meantime, I'll continue to listen to BIL complain about elleson upon occasion!

Marty
 
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