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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was looking at boats last night and it seems to me getting a 2014 Catalina 445 brand new for base price of $260k with a real price of $320k out the door with all the goodies vs a used 1998 Oyster 45 at a cost of $332K with probably issues down the road and retrofits of new equipment soon to come, etc.

Question is why is there such a disparity in price... why would I want to buy the Oyster? Why not the brand new Catalina for a similar price? What features of the Oyster command such a price for such an older boat, fiberglass and wood is the same on each boat or merely so, but the interior of Catalina would be today's look and not the late 1990's look... I like the Catalina's interior and moving in that direction, not saying I wanted an Oyster... just looking at some comparisons... as I get older I want less equipment breakdowns/failures while cruising... the newer sailboats seem to fit that function.
 

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Crazy Woman Boat Driver
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I own a 2014 Catalina 445. If you have any questions email me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I own a 2014 Catalina 445. If you have any questions email me.
I will PM you this weekend if that is ok...

I thought I read here you bought a 445... how do you like it so far and what is not to like on a brand new boat... my wife and I are looking to get our next boat and the Catalinas seem to be a great value but I only know one person who bought a Cat 36 foot up in Everett and while it was roomy not as much creature comforts for 5-6 adults but it did sail beautifully, my friend who owned her christened the boat on my daughters birthday back in 1990 so it was a time back and models today have much nicer appointments... did yours have AC and water maker as standard or were they options?

Thanks...
 

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There is an enormous difference between the two manufacturers beyond accommodations and number of berths. One is a coastal cruiser and the other is a world cruiser. One is a Chevy, the other is a Bentley. One has worldwide customer service, the other has your local dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I assume the Catalina is the Chevy? But both cars (boats) will be able to travel the same roads (oceans)... I don't plan on sailing across the Atlantic or Pacific (maybe the Fiji's, are we saying the Cat 445 is not blue water capable?) but for the most part it's the price difference of an older boat to the newer boat... especially since the newer boat has less breakdown chance (all things equal). I guess I'll find out soon.
 

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Bristol 45.5 - AiniA
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I assume the Catalina is the Chevy? But both cars (boats) will be able to travel the same roads (oceans)... I don't plan on sailing across the Atlantic or Pacific (maybe the Fiji's, are we saying the Cat 445 is not blue water capable?) but for the most part it's the price difference of an older boat to the newer boat... especially since the newer boat has less breakdown chance (all things equal). I guess I'll find out soon.
I don't think all things are equal, that is the point. The market determines the price of the Oyster, keep in mind a new replacement for the Oyster would be in the $1.4 million range. They are just very different boats. Try looking at the systems and the level of finish in more hidden places.
 
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Not equal at all. Take a careful look at Oyster. A boat is not a boat is not a boat.

I deliberately didn't identify which boat was which.

BTW. I like Catalinas, my family owned 3 and I worked for 2 dealers. They are nice boats. But an Oyster will take your breath away.... So will the price tag.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Agree... details are details... the boat I was looking at for comparison was this one:

1998 Oyster 45 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

When compared to:

2014 Catalina 445 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I understand the build quality is Rolls Royce over an American made car... my point is I'm no Rolls Royce driver... the Catalina would be fine or any other make of boat in this category of price/quality.

I guess talking to Melrna later will confirm quality differences or what she would have liked better after taking keys to the boat.

I was considering why such a huge difference in the used boat over a new boat, I guess the make/name of the boat means something in the end, to me it doesn't in the long haul... after 20 years or so of cruising it's just passed on to heirs or sold.
 

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I went from a Chrysler Cirrus to a BMW 3-series about 15 years ago (pre-kids!). At their hearts, they were both cars of approximately the same size with approximately the same horsepower. And, when I owned the BMW for a few weeks, I realized that the BMW really wasn't light-years away from the Chrysler; it was mostly a lot of little things that separated the two. Like a careful weight analysis of where the battery bank should go to get an even 50/50 weight distribution. A 60/40 split back seat so I didn't have to drop the entire back when I carried big stuff. A beefier, better tuned transmission. The ability to manually shift the "automatic" transmission when I wanted to. One-touch windows that meant that as I pulled into/away from the toll booth (a 2x a day thing for me) both hands could be on the wheel - advantageous in bad weather. Rain sensing windshield wipers and automatic lights. And then there was the fit and finish. After 5 years with the BMW, the interior still looked practically new. The wood veneer still was glossy, the materials were all still in good shape. 5 years in with the Cirrus and stuff was peeling off, doors were out of alignment, etc.

I think this is analogous to the Oyster and the Catalina. I want to be clear, I liked my Cirrus and I liked my Catalina. But I'd bet that there are a lot of little things that went into the Oyster that, especially when you are first aboard, you just won't even realize are there. Things that took time to do, took extra thought, or required extra expense (like stronger equipment).

Also, you have to realize that even a brand new Catalina is going to have issues. Hell, a brand new Oyster is going to have issues. And once the new Catalina is 3-4 years old, you're basically back in the same maintenance/routine as with the Oyster. Yes, you may have bought yourself some time, but unless you're going to sell again in a few years, realistically I think you're not gaining much.
 

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Sorry, I was writing my previous post as you posted yours. In the end, the decision is yours, and I envy the fact that you're in the position to "have" to make such a difficult choice. :)
 

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The difference between the boats is in their displacements: 35,000 vs 20,800. The Oyster is 68% heavier than the Catalina. You can be sure most of this weight difference is structural. Guess which one gets beat up less when mother nature gets really nasty. You don't have to go to sea to run into mother nature's furry. She has been known to come all the way ashore on occasion. And when she does, she stacks up boats like cord wood. Now guess which one of those boats get beat up the most.
 

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It very much depends on what you want to do with the boat. The Catalina can cross an ocean, but the Oyster is routinely used for such trips. There was even an Oyster around the world rally passing through Cape Town when we there. It is like comparing two things that are just so different. If I was in that part of the market financially I would not be considering either of these, more likely I would look at Amel and Little Harbor, but at least a comparison of these two with Oyster makes sense since they similar in quality and designed purpose.
 
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The construction of an Oyster is a much more robust then a Catalina. If the boats were side by side the differences would be quite obvious by simply looking at the gear, rigging, construction details,,,

That said a Catalina is a fine boat for it's intended purpose and not having to re-rig or repower or any of the other myriad of jobs required on a 15 year old boat are attractive to many, especially if the intended use doesn't demand the robustness of an Oyster.
 

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Pretty well all that is worth saying has been said. I suggest you are realistic about how you intend to use the boat. If it is for local coastal cruising, the Catalina is an excellent boat - as you know, you get a lot of boat for the money.

If I was looking at offshore cruising, I would go to the Oyster. Yes, Catalinas can be taken offshore, but if things got really nasty, I would prefer to be in the Oyster.

What I have seen is people who buy an Oyster, never take her offshore, just using her for local cruising. Sure you can do that but she is heavy and so will be relatively slow, and possibly more complex than necessary. Many people who buy bluewater boats and use them for local cruising aren't happy - they tend to be heavier and less spacious.
 

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bell ringer
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Question is why is there such a disparity in price... why would I want to buy the Oyster?
Snob appear of course. Not saying the Oyster isn't a nicer boat than the Catalina, but ...............

Even better find a used 445!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
I went from a Chrysler Cirrus to a BMW 3-series about 15 years ago (pre-kids!). At their hearts, they were both cars of approximately the same size with approximately the same horsepower. And, when I owned the BMW for a few weeks, I realized that the BMW really wasn't light-years away from the Chrysler; it was mostly a lot of little things that separated the two. Like a careful weight analysis of where the battery bank should go to get an even 50/50 weight distribution. A 60/40 split back seat so I didn't have to drop the entire back when I carried big stuff. A beefier, better tuned transmission. The ability to manually shift the "automatic" transmission when I wanted to. One-touch windows that meant that as I pulled into/away from the toll booth (a 2x a day thing for me) both hands could be on the wheel - advantageous in bad weather. Rain sensing windshield wipers and automatic lights. And then there was the fit and finish. After 5 years with the BMW, the interior still looked practically new. The wood veneer still was glossy, the materials were all still in good shape. 5 years in with the Cirrus and stuff was peeling off, doors were out of alignment, etc.

I think this is analogous to the Oyster and the Catalina. I want to be clear, I liked my Cirrus and I liked my Catalina. But I'd bet that there are a lot of little things that went into the Oyster that, especially when you are first aboard, you just won't even realize are there. Things that took time to do, took extra thought, or required extra expense (like stronger equipment).

Also, you have to realize that even a brand new Catalina is going to have issues. Hell, a brand new Oyster is going to have issues. And once the new Catalina is 3-4 years old, you're basically back in the same maintenance/routine as with the Oyster. Yes, you may have bought yourself some time, but unless you're going to sell again in a few years, realistically I think you're not gaining much.
Agree... I've had my share of BMW's, Volvo's, Corvettes, and even a Ferrari (still belong to the Ferrari forum and active member), in the end I have my 'working' vehicles and my two Fiat Spyders (they make up for the Ferrari :D)... in the end I'd rather not drive any 'luxury' vehicles ever again, the cars I have now are a Jeep Cherokee, Nissan Pathfinder/Xterra which is what my wife drives... the neighborhood I live in is 'doctors, lawyers, business owners, etc.' so well to do and all I see are the BMW/Mercedes/Jaguars, etc... and here I am driving my Jeep... :laugher

I understand where you're getting at... but on a new Cat or other boat FMEA (failure modes and effects analysis) would somehow come into play at some point for these components and if it's going to fail at 'x' number of hours hopefully we would have done most of our 'heavy' cruising by then... most of these longevity tests would have been done to many of these components insuring the design meets a certain use before failure... I hope this is part of the engineering behind some of these products.
 

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So, how long do you plan to "heavy cruise"? As I said, you've probably got 3-5 years before the Catalina really slips into maintenance mode. (Again, I'm not meaning to pick on Catalina, I think the same will be true for any new boat). If you're going to maintain her well during that time and then move back ashore when you're done, or move onto something more suited to your intended lifestyle at that point, then the Catalina may make perfect sense. Especially if you're mostly coastal cruising. The comment above by Paul323 is very well made - you need to pick the boat that will meet your intended use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Pretty well all that is worth saying has been said. I suggest you are realistic about how you intend to use the boat. If it is for local coastal cruising, the Catalina is an excellent boat - as you know, you get a lot of boat for the money.

If I was looking at offshore cruising, I would go to the Oyster. Yes, Catalinas can be taken offshore, but if things got really nasty, I would prefer to be in the Oyster.

What I have seen is people who buy an Oyster, never take her offshore, just using her for local cruising. Sure you can do that but she is heavy and so will be relatively slow, and possibly more complex than necessary. Many people who buy bluewater boats and use them for local cruising aren't happy - they tend to be heavier and less spacious.
I don't plan on many cross ocean voyages and plan mainly the Caribbean... maybe South America by way of coastal Gulf cruising... My mother lives in Puerto Rico currently and we have waterfront property there... getting the boat there would be a routine voyage on many occasions and my family and friends would be on the boat... having a larger boat and amenities on the boat (A/C, more than one head, enclosed shower, etc.) would help much in that area...

I have by the end of the year to make a choice before committing the funds so I'll be looking at boats more detailed and going to the Miami boat show next year... The Palm Beach boat show is coming up next week... not sure I'll be able to attend that one since it's in a couple of days, March 20th -23'rd... looks like their venue is more powerboats, yachts and less sailboats.

My parent in-laws have the same 'land yacht' issues... they have the Class A motorhome and when compared to other motorhomes there is a difference... but for me I don't see it... to me the build quality looks no different... it would have to be a magnitude difference to see any benefit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
The difference between the boats is in their displacements: 35,000 vs 20,800. The Oyster is 68% heavier than the Catalina. You can be sure most of this weight difference is structural. Guess which one gets beat up less when mother nature gets really nasty. You don't have to go to sea to run into mother nature's furry. She has been known to come all the way ashore on occasion. And when she does, she stacks up boats like cord wood. Now guess which one of those boats get beat up the most.
Looking at the construction between the two:



Catalina 445:

Construction
•One-Piece Fiberglass Hull with End Grain Balsa Core Sandwich Construction Above the Waterline, and a Vinylester Integral Barrier to Resist Osmosis Blistering
•One-Piece Fiberglass Deck with End Grain Balsa Core and Molded-In Diamond Pattern Non-Skid Surfaces Finished in Two-Tone White and Grey
•One-Piece Fiberglass Deck Liner Finished in Non-Glare Texture
•One-Piece Molded Fiberglass Structured Grid
•One-Piece Molded Fiberglass Hull Liner with Satin Finish
•Lead Fin Keel with 316 Stainless Steel Attaching Bolts
•Five Year Gel Coat Blister Protection
•Five Year Hull Structure Warranty



Oyster 45:

CONSTRUCTION

Hull
Grp hull is laid up single skin with structural stringers and floors to lloyds approved design specification. hull colour white with cove line and double boot top lines in standard oyster blue.
The stern design incorporates a bathing platform trimmed with teak slats and folding stainless steel bathing ladder. stainless steel steps for access to the stern deck.
Keel
High performance bulb (hpb) external lead keel.
Rudder
Fully protected skeg-hung rudder.
Deck
Deck structure moulded in grp with balsa core. sidedecks, cockpit seats, sole and helmsman’s seat are all
Trimmed with laid teak, which has been professionally serviced by oyster agents, antigua rigging, in 2012. oyster deck saloon profile with ‘eyebrow’ styling. coachroof repainted with non-skid interdeck, 2009.
Perforated aluminium alloy toerail. alloy mooring and cockpit cleats. two additional cleats and fairleads on stern, 2006. bow fairleads upgraded, 2009. stainless steel pulpit, pushpit, and gateway midship stanchions. gate to pushpit. stainless steel grabrails atop deck saloon. liferaft stowage built into pushpit. stern quarter pushpit seats in teak and stainless steel. foredeck full-width stowage locker with lewmar ocean 60 hatch. gas locker for 2 bottles and spare regulator.


Much of that weight may be structural and much might not be... among the hide away electrically operated hatches to hide TV screens and other non essential items I really could care less... I don't watch much TV and any weight added would be a digital piano but we're talking 200 lbs at the most and Catalina may work with me on having a special area for the piano and reinforcements on the floor... I've seen the videos of the Oyster and while a beautiful boat in many ways much of the gadgets I saw are similar to my in-laws motorhome... while it might be useful for the privileged to spend money this way I have lived and will always live (currently) by a lessor means, not so much to impress others. With that said I don't think an Oyster is in my plans... just wanted some input on the cost differences 'used vs new'... that 5 year hull structure warranty sure sounds nice... wonder if it could be extended.
 

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