I doubt if much of the marine insurance industry escaped the recent devastations, so rates are up across the board.

Fair or unfair, without it the industry would likely need to just pack it in.

 

Even the regular Nooze has been saying that insurers, all kinds of insurers, were clobbered this year and they'll all be hiking the rates painfully to try making that back.

You might try shopping around with IMIS or other reputable vendors, to get a reality check on whether it is your insurer in particular. Or whether there's any other way to save. Some insurers actually raise the rates on long term policy holders, figuring it is like cooking a frog: Heat the water slowly, and the frog won't jump away.

 

Gee--Such an increase is really surprising unless BoatUS had really low-balled your premiums given your locale to begin with . We have our boat insured by "Seaworthy", a Berkshire-Hathoway Co., which became a Geico company (also Berksire-Hathoway) a year or so ago and, to my amazement, our premium for 2018 actually decreased by 15% over 2017 yet with no change in the agreed value, deductables, or limits of navigation. Given the effects of the recent storms, we had expected an increase, certainly not a reduction, so when we got the premium notice, I double checked the policy and then immediately paid up to ensure we were locked in for the new year.

FWIW...

 

I sent off the check for renewal of my BoatUS/Geico insurance last week, about a 10% premium reduction and no change to coverage.

One claim two years ago, but no other claims over the past 10 years.

 

Just dumped Boat US/GEICO Insurance. Almost a 50% increase this year, no claims, been with them over 30 years ! Shop around much better rates are available.

 

Get a knowledgeable marine insurance agent to shop for you. There are extraordinary details that can change in policies, that most of us would never notice. The average consumer focuses on the numbers (hull value, liability) along with cruising ground coverage or in water dates. There is way more to it. Consequential damage, replacement value, weather, etc, etc. Further, there are companies that have low premiums but will fight every claim. Do you consider that a value? A good agent should know all this. I would never buy direct.

 

I got my renewal from BoatUS/Geico. 26% rate increase. Called them on the phone and no acceptable ways to bring it down.

Can someone make a suggestion for a good marine insurance agent in the Baltimore-Philadelphia areas? (I live in PA, boat in MD, not sure if that affects licensing requirements of the agent.)

 

Al Golden at IMIS. Always worth a call, they're reputable folks. Everything that can be insured is up this year. Homes, cars, boats, medical, you name it.

 

We have Boat US Geico Insurance
Our rates were the same and neither increased or decreased this year

We have had two incidents in 18 years
1- hit by lightening in front of Jabins yard, Annapolis on a mooring surrounded by 1000 masts
2- striking and underwater object in the channel going into Cornfield Creek ne t to Eagles Cove , Magothy


In both cases the response by the insurance was quick, expitedited, professional, investigated with a local surveyor and decided expeditiously. Before bailing on your insurance on price only be sure of the track record .

 

Got an increase of a little over 20% on a Geico policy brokered by IMIS after seeing no increase last year. IMIS said a lot of their customers were hit with increases of this magnitude and they weren't too happy about it. Changing insurers would have triggered a re-survey requirement which wasn't worth a potential savings of $150-200 by the time the survey and haulout costs were accounted for. I may reevaluate next year as ongoing savings obviously would eventually pay those costs back. But hellosailor is right in that property insurance increases have been running higher than inflation for a few years now.

 

I need to get insurance what is the average cost for a 37 footer..?

 

It's really determined more by condition, value, and location of the boat than by size.

 

Also owner's experience, proposed usage pattern, survey result. . .

 

Why doesn't some company start up a low-risk boat insurance company? They could make a killing. I'm sure 60% or more of the members here fall into this category.
Even us, with 3 Carib-Newport trips and a couple thousand inter-island miles each year, haven't made a claim in 7 years. I personally haven't made one since a lightening strike in the early 90's, and not one on any of the vessels I've operated professionally since the ealy 80's. What's not to bet on?
And yet, when I go for insurance, not one company cares one bit about my licensing or experience, or lack of claims. They just run their numbers and come up with some out of the blue figure.
I once faxed a copy of my license to an insurance company and something went wrong w/the fax. It arrived headed "CAPTAIN ******'s USCG Master Mariner's Certificate but with no content, and they didn't catch it until the next year when they wanted the boat to renew the policy. This was a tour boat carrying 49 passengers up to 4 times a day, 7 days a week during the season!

 

Numbers game, all about spreading the risks over the biggest possible pool.

 

Agreed, that's how the game works. I'm just wondering, in my 8 years with BoatUS and zero claims, why am I in the 26% increase pool while other Chesapeake sailors (some who have had claims) seem to be in the 0% increase pool?

 

Replacing your boat which is newer and probably is worth twice mine now , that may more than make up for the frequency of claims....neither of which caused by any fault of the owner.

 

My rate jumped appropriately when I bought the new boat. The latest 26% is on top of that prior jump.

 

I'm amazed rates haven't doubled after last season's devastations

 

My understanding was that insurance companies make their money by INVESTING not from premiums. If this is the case... which makes sense to me... their premiums should not be driven my losses they pay out.... especially is their investments and the market are performing well. I believe that was the case.

'How Do Insurance Companies Make Money?
Insurance Q&A: “How do insurance companies make money?”

An insurance policy is a contract, or a promise, between the insured (you) and the insurer (insurance company). The insurance company collects a premium from you for the issued policy and agrees to pay for any covered losses you suffer. It sounds like a pretty simple business model for earning money, but can be quite complicated.

Insurance companies are like any other business in the world. They have to make a profit to stay in business. There are two basic ways this can be accomplished. They can earn underwriting income, investment income, or both.

Investment Income

This unique situation allows insurance companies to invest that money while it’s not being used. Huge profits can be reaped, or lost, as a result.

This is exactly why Warren Buffet formed the Berkshire Hathaway Insurance Company…so he could generate capital to invest in the stock market."

any comments?

 

...This is exactly why Warren Buffet formed the Berkshire Hathaway Insurance Company…so he could generate capital to invest in the stock market."

any comments?

Can't resist one comment, which is probably obvious to most everyone: BoatUS is owned by Berkshire Hathaway. That's probably what you were thinking when you made your post.

As for myself, I'm going to call the guy at IMIS for a quick quote. If one of his companies will accept my two-year-old survey I'll consider switching (or maybe he'll get me a better rate at BoatUS/GEICO, who is my current insurer). If not, I'll probably pay up and shop around next winter while on the hard.

 

Their investment profits are gravy, the pooling-risk side still has to more than break even.

More susceptible boats and usage patterns carrying greater increases would be logical, but who knows, up to each company.

For sure, as extreme weather events become more frequent and less predictable, rates have to rise across the whole pool.

I believe certain risks will just become impractical to insure, so people will have to choose between stopping completely, or playing bareback, roll the dice with self-insuring.

Is the large-fleet chartering biz even coming back, say in the BVI?

 

I agree with SanderO on this one.
It's just like the airlines continuing to charge a fuel surcharge even after the fuel prices dropped significantly. They, as are the insurance companies, are just trying to make exorbitant profits by screwing their customers, which has no alternative but to accept it.
Perhaps, if these companies can't survive w/o screwing their customers, then they should go under and companies that will accept a more modest profit level can enter the market.

 

There are some things which should have NOT profits tacked on... I would say "defense" appropriations is an example. If this was not "for profit" we would see the whole madness for more bigger and better weapons cease.

Health insurance and the health business is another sort of "business" which has too many hands taking a slice. If the health "industry" was considered a "right" profit taking would go down.

Yes in insurance risk is shared...

Let's see these companies open up their books so we can see how they stay in business and return profits when they have deep hurricane losses.

 

There are some things which should have profits tacked on... I would say "defense" appropriations is an example. If this was not "for profit" we would see the whole madness for more bigger and better weapons cease.

Health insurance and the health business is another sort of "business" which has too many hands taking a slice. If the health "industry" was considered a "right" profit taking would go down.

Yes in insurance risk is shared...

Let's see these companies open up their books so we can see how they stay in business and return profits when they have deep hurricane losses.

I think you meant to say "not" in your first sentence.

I really don't want to debate politics or economics, but just point out that the only way for your vision to occur is via socializing or nationalizing these industries. Obviously, no one is going to provide the capital for these companies, if there is zero profit, so the government would have to do so, with the tax dollars obtain take from citizens. I understand the theory that this could be less expensive, if done properly.

But think about it broadly. It's not possible to solely nationalize out the profit of a single product. Someone needs to build their buildings, provide component technology, dig raw materials out of the ground, etc, which would still be for profit on government contracts. We all know, when our elected officials have no personal investment in these businesses, their motivation to assign contracts becomes "political" not economic. To actually get all the profit out, you have to nationalize everything. However, look at every coutry that has tried and find one where there isn't a ruling class who has figure out how to be the only one's with wealth. It just doesn't work, despite the best intentions I know you have.

This is not to mention that profit motivates more people (not all people) to innovate. Take our banks and credit unions. The latter aren't nationalized, but have no shareholders entitled to a profit, so are a close analogy. All consumer innovation has come from the for profit side, either banks themselves, or for profit suppliers: ATMs, online mortgage applications, depositing checks with a picture on your smartphone, etc. Zero innovation, just price in credit unions. Yes, the big banks royally screwed the economy, so I'm not saying our current system is perfect. Only that non-profit doesn't work either.

The prize goes to the first to come up with a new construct.

 

I now have a quote from IMIS for 4% less than last year's BoatUS premium. So instead of a 26% increase, I'd have a 4% decrease. The company is Markel America. Do you guys have any comments about their response to claims? According to the paperwork that I have, PO of my boat used them and made a few claims. They apparently paid up and didn't cancel him, so that seems like a good sign.

I also have been pursuing several specific questions with BoatUS about my risk category. A week ago they told me they'd get back to me early this week. No call, so I called back today and got a similar runaround. I'm about ready to pull the plug on them, just want to hear from you guys about Markel first.

 

We have had a lot of hailstorms in northern Colorado the past decade. I have not had to file a claim for any of them with any of my properties. My insurance costs went up for all of my properties, including my new brick home with supposed damage resistant shingles. Given the amount of money that all of the insurance companies have had to pay out I don't think they are being unreasonable at all. I guess some of you must think that all are equal except for some.

 

Given the amount of money that all of the insurance companies have had to pay out I don't think they are being unreasonable at all.

I agree with you to an extent and had even braced myself for an inevitable increase on my boat policy for as much as 5-10% this year. But 20% was shocking. I'm no insurance expert, but it seems an insurance company hiking rates by 20-30% in an area that wasn't even impacted by last year's major storms represents a failure in adequately assessing the level of risk associated with the customers who received payouts over the past couple of years.

 

At the risk of opening a can of worms let me challenge a few assumptions

Why if an individual has had a payout on insurance assuming that neither incident was for fault does that statistically make them more of a risk to insure and therefore pay higher rates.? In my case both incidents were no fault .

It seems o have seen a number of my friends on here assume because they have perfect records they will continue to. Not sure why they look ONLY at this factor and keep harping about it

Second , do you not think a statistical analysis of risk is done by the insurance company on where you keep your boat as far as payout for claims. I am not taking just about a general one like large geographical area , but a more address specific one.

Again at the risk. St my risk of of aggravating a few of my friends on here Let’s look at an actual scenario. I keep my boat in an Uber protected basin with virtually no open fetch from winds . Rock Hall Harbor to me is far more exposed and therefore on risk analysis may incur greater numbers of wind or insurance claims that are weather nonfault related.

I am not sure but want to assume when it comes to lightening strikes ( non fault) and may occur at the dock as that’s where a boat spends the majority of its time. . Again I would venture to bet Rock Hall being far more exposed with less protection has received far more lightening hits. Only statistics none of us may know may bear that out and again be one of the algorithms determining number of claims in an area and therefore greater risk. Car insurance in an area takes this into account so it’s sage to assume that boat insurance may have a far more specific algorithm built into their premium models ( insurance in Baltimore City is greater than in the country in Baltimore county where I live and premiums are higher.

I always believe rates were a conglomerate of many risk factors. Location, weather, even facility specific data should be / may be used. Not just specific ....how many claims have you processed data.

I am not sure what justifies a sudden 20% jump in premiums. However I would not just focus on your record of claims.

When we shopped for insurance on our house / car/ boat there were a lot of factors. One was how was the companies reputation in dealing with claims. Did they challenge every buckle and dime? Asking SN is good , but we actually asked a few local surveyors. After all they are the ones usually sent by the insurance company to access damage . They all know the easiest and best companies to deal with. I can tell you hands down in the Annapolis area. A number I talked to said Boat US Geico was far easier that others to deal with. I my personal experience I found that so also.

You may save a few dollars in cost, but is it worth it when there is a claim to have everything challenged ? Price is only one factor in what insurance company I picked. BTW this goes the same for our house and other insurance we have.

 

The biggest underlying macro factor is the realization that what once were uncommon extreme weather events are becoming much more frequent and less predictable.

I am very surprised how low the increases are, doubling would have been more rational IMO.

I think 20% increases every year will perhaps be a more strategic move, but in the end keeping your boat in the zone will be only for the self-insuring wealthy and the foolhardy poor forced to be uninsured.

Asking again, does anyone know what's currently happening with the big-fleet charter operations? I think very much the canary in the coal mine.

 

As well as the actuary working out the cost of claims a company must work out its profit.
If they don't want to be in an area of insurance they probably jack that rate up.

Insurance used to be non-profit. A mutual group of owners pooling together to hedge risk. Now it's a profit making business.

Finally there's the aggression of the owners to make back their premiums by claims.

Except for some laws I would not have insurance but take the risk upon myself.