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Freedom Chip Counter
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, time to ask for some advice. Unheeded, no holds barred, internet brainstorming if you will.

Having roughly 30k to spend on a sailboat in the fall of 2015 there seems to be many options to consider. Do you acquire a sound craft for 20k and keep 10k in the Kitty for unforeseeable repairs? Do you purchase a derelict vessel and spend 2 years and 20k repairing / upgrading it? Do you spend 29k and just have enough left over for taxes / paperwork while discovering problems along the way?

The criteria:
28 to 32 feet in LOA
Most likely single handed sailing by a 45yr old, 5’-8” reasonably fit fellow
Mostly coastal cruising in the Gulf of Mexico
Some off shore stints of 2 to 3 week passages (not opposed to carrying supplemental containers for fuel and H20 if necessary)
Will be living aboard 8 months a year, but a large galley is not required / desired
Will keep this vessel for at least 10 years possibly longer
Monthly cruising kitty = 2k for provisions, insurance (boat), repairs

Please also feel free to name a few vessels and their approximate year / value if you would.

Every individual is different and your response is the only right answer (please don’t hop on the mob wagon)….Just fishing for some interesting responses, un-candid opinions, food for thought, more criteria to consider……In the words of the late Mr. Marley “Stir it Up!”

Cheers!
 

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Administrator
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Are you no longer working so you're not counting on additional income on a regular basis? Or is the monthly cruising kitty part of the $30K?
 

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Freedom Chip Counter
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
30k Sailing Kitty, what's your next move?

Monthly cruising kitty is 2k (see criteria)....working online, on land and at sea.
Best!
Doo
 

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Senior Member
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Here's a list of options in your area....

(Sail) Cruiser Boats For Sale

28-32 footers up to $25K to give you some left over cash for incidentals.

You'll need to make some fundamental decisions about boat type, must have's, deal breakers etc to filter down your candidates....
 

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pearson triton, yankee 30, contessa 32, bodega bay 30/farralone 29, cape dory 28, 30, 32? 35, westsail 32, westsail 28, cal 30, cal 31, ericson 30, ericson 32, 35, s&s 34,morgan 31, 34(early models), islander 34,36, maybe bahama 30, pearson 28, 30, vanguard 32, alberg 30, 35, spencer 35, c&c35, cheoy lee31, h28, rawson 30, trintella 29, contest 29, some grampians, some albin(vega 27 is a bit smaller) albin cirrus is a cool boat, catalina 34, hallberg rassy 31, monsun, mariner 31 ketch, hans christian 34, union polaris 36, tayana 37 (if you can find under 30k)

I like sailboatlistings as another search engine:
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/cgi...---&state=&view_records=+Show+Matching+Boats+

that should get your juices flowing....there are a gazillion more out there to choose from...these are just some that I have in mind for projects here and there or solo cruising too...

good luck

EDIT how could I forget the bristols???

27, 29(my fave) 32 and 34 if you go bigger they can be quite a bit more $$$$$$

also tartan 30(old version not the tartan 10) 34, 34c not bad, 37 is out of your range really but a sweet boat just ask chef.
 
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roughly 1/3 for purchase, 1/3 for outfitting(variable, depending on #1) and 1/3 for contingencies and start-up expenses missed in #'s. 1 & 2. It is *always* going to cost more than you budget/think it will ;)
Best to fold yourcash, put it in your pocket and wait out. the better/perfect boat.
Patience is paramount.
I looked for over ayear.. When I. did find the one" ,I had a pile of cash and leverage to market the purchase;considering the. 1st paragraph.. I'm still (reasonably) on budget. :D
 

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Freedom Chip Counter
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Some sweet rides in the lists above!
Couple more questions....
How do you feel about requesting a survey on a boat worth less than 20k?

Will the insurance company require a survey or will they inspect it themselves?

How agressive do you get when making an offer....do you treat it like buying an older used car and start at 50%?

I Don't want to prey on those needing to sell, but is there a rule of thumb for proper form?
 

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Im not overly aggresive, however I have often been called out for knowing more than the actual owner of the boat that is being sold and often I find that you can push your luck

if this is the case...tone it down and offer well below what he is asking...if he balks and or doesnt like the offer explain the reasons IN DETAIL

if you are not knowledgeable enough to do this for whatever reason you are best informing yourself with CURRENT MARKET VALUE

IN YOUR AREA

its of little use to argue what a westsail costs in hawaii when youre in ft. lauderdale fl right?

if he or she is above or below local market value ask questions, why? again dont argue or press the issue too much

some owners just want to sell as is where is and will take a low offer...some dont and call back after they talk it over with the wife or whatever some get mad and tell you to scramble

however as a seller I have had all sorts of people look at my boat and even be rude and condescending

I had a very weird experience with a buyer for my islander 34 who was european and thought my islander was supposed to be like a benetau or something despite being 45 years old...he asked questions like why isnt there 2 heads or a built in microwave etc

despite the boat being a rugged coastal cruiser and setup as so and WELL below market value...

i any case

proper form for me has always been to affer around 25% less than price listed of course if its within market value range and then negotiate from there

some boats you can offer half even a quarter and get it, but that usuall happens with smaller valued boats.

a 30k boat you can go as low as 20 and go up to 22-25k or something...

and yes for a 30k boat a survey is money well spent!

peace
 

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Some sweet rides in the lists above!
Couple more questions....
How do you feel about requesting a survey on a boat worth less than 20k?

Will the insurance company require a survey or will they inspect it themselves?

How agressive do you get when making an offer....do you treat it like buying an older used car and start at 50%?

I Don't want to prey on those needing to sell, but is there a rule of thumb for proper form?
Yes to the survey, but it is up to you to decide on what your personal limit of liability. I have always told myself any boat over $10,000 will have to be surveyed. Less than that while not something I could loose at Los Vegas could be dealt with but would really depend on the boat and circumstances. Most insurance companies are going to require one, but again if the boat is under a certain $ it will be liability only for me it is kind of like a car. My current car is hovering at the $10,000 replacement range and I am trying to decide if I will go to liability only or just get rid of it.

As far as where to start the negotiations really depends on the situation. Some have boats listed at more than twice what they are worth, while others will have it below what they are worth. Will the guy at twice what it is worth come down much? Who knows you may just piss him off. If you do so what, find another boat, lots out there especially in your area. If you are dealing with a boat broker, they shoudl be able to provide recent sales via soldboats.com. (a broker only web site that is part of yachtworld.com)

How much sailing experience do you have? What kind of boats do you like, all this plays a roll. Do you like modern fin keels, full keels or something in between? Have you attempted to see what kind of internet access you will have in the area you want to be located if you need it for work? Some places it is good, others it is awful and gets expensive quickly.

check out Drake's interview with Ben Stookey he makes it sound easy.


Have fun with the search and research.
 

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Plan to have a reasonable kitty for potential problems. In Salomons Maryland there is a couple stuck on a 26 footer with inboard out and outboard lost or stollen. They were on the way south and now have no jobs, money or means to get going as the temps are dropping. I think that a 5-7 k for repairs, health or travel emergency, work slowdown is a must and 10 k would be better. But perhaps I am more conservative then others. Good luck with your search.
 

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Make sure you at least look at the interior on a Catalina 30.

A mid 80s in good condition should be around 13 to 18k, Tall rig fin keel version preferred.

It will give you more living space than almost everything else and still sail well.
 

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Bill SV Rangatira
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Ok, time to ask for some advice. Unheeded, no holds barred, internet brainstorming if you will.

Having roughly 30k to spend on a sailboat in the fall of 2015 there seems to be many options to consider. Do you acquire a sound craft for 20k and keep 10k in the Kitty for unforeseeable repairs? Do you purchase a derelict vessel and spend 2 years and 20k repairing / upgrading it? Do you spend 29k and just have enough left over for taxes / paperwork while discovering problems along the way?

The criteria:
28 to 32 feet in LOA
Most likely single handed sailing by a 45yr old, 5'-8" reasonably fit fellow
Mostly coastal cruising in the Gulf of Mexico
Some off shore stints of 2 to 3 week passages (not opposed to carrying supplemental containers for fuel and H20 if necessary)
Will be living aboard 8 months a year, but a large galley is not required / desired
Will keep this vessel for at least 10 years possibly longer
Monthly cruising kitty = 2k for provisions, insurance (boat), repairs

Please also feel free to name a few vessels and their approximate year / value if you would.

Every individual is different and your response is the only right answer (please don't hop on the mob wagon)….Just fishing for some interesting responses, un-candid opinions, food for thought, more criteria to consider……In the words of the late Mr. Marley "Stir it Up!"

Cheers!
The cruiser, the strong little, deep little boat...
is a complete satisfaction for man. ~Hilaire Belloc
 

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x2 on craigslist...I have bought and sold all but 1 of my boats this way...

there are tips and ways to feed out the spam if youre interested

ps. TQA mentioned a catalina 30...I did not put that boat on my "list" simply because I dont like the exremely swept back fin keel design and rudder for that matter...I think the 34 is a step up budget permitting

I noticed when buddy boating with a catalina 30 in san fran that it will pound big time and "wiggle" from a good chop...it just needs to be stronger hull wise for offshore work for me, however some have cruised succesfully...

Id love it for coastal work say in the gulf...not bad really.

however I sailed on a 30 its a great sailor, and MAN THE INTERIOR IS HUGE FOR A 30 FOOTER!

the yankee 30 is minitiaure by comparison(perfect solo boat or young couple boat in my opinion) however has a much better ofshore record and building pedigree...its also a very famous s&s design...even after saying this you almost ALWAYS find them cheaper than a catalina 30


apples and oranges really
 
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Monthly cruising kitty is 2k (see criteria)....working online, on land and at sea.
Best!
Doo
The equipment required for an online signal suitable for working at sea might eat up a sizable portion of your budget.
I suggest you investigate this thoroughly if you haven't already done so.
 

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Freedom Chip Counter
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The equipment required for an online signal suitable for working at sea might eat up a sizable portion of your budget.
I suggest you investigate this thoroughly if you haven't already done so.
Hi Mike, thank you for the reply! I should have been more specific when I said I'd be working online, on land, and at sea. My online job is actually a teaching job from September to December and I'll be on the hard in a studio apartment in Minneapolis near my kids and family through the holidays. I'll also be drafting and creating renderings for a few clients during that time frame. I haven't considered doing anything online at sea other than maybe sending a few text messages through a sat / gps. At sea (in the precious time between chores on the boat) I'd like to write, sketch, plan (I'm an Architect by trade), take on an odd job here and there..... just to feel useful!
 

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As you can see, there are loads of sailboats for sale, some will be immediately sailable, some will need some minor repairs before sailing safely, while others will require a major refit before heading out. From my experience over a lot of years of boating and owning far too many boats (at least that's what my wife says) it will take 2/3rd of the $30 grand for the purchase of the boat, and 1/3 for incidental upgrades. Now, you could get really lucky and find one that fits your needs, and does not need anything other than to top off the fuel and water tanks, fire up the engine, and go sailing. Some of those boats really do exist, so I'm told - but I've never been able to find one.

Good luck,

Gary :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
the yankee 30 is minitiaure by comparison(perfect solo boat or young couple boat in my opinion) however has a much better offshore record and building pedigree...its also a very famous s&s design...even after saying this you almost ALWAYS find them cheaper than a catalina 30

apples and oranges really
After reading much of the Hiscock's adventures, numberous books from Lin and Larry Pardey and of course "20 small sailboats..." I'm leaning toward full keel partially for comfort and partially for the shorter draft. Seems most of the vessels in 20 small sailboats have deck stepped masts....I'm sure due to their size....hoping to find a keel stepped design mostly because of the age range... I walked through a Catalina 30 about 2 years ago, but never had the chance to go for a ride. I think the interior was bigger than my apartment! Very roomy considering the LOA. Looking forward to checking out the Yankee 30 and many more from your list!

What do think about beam width when it comes to living at anchor or at a mooring and a slightly choppy sea state....will it have much of an effect on comfort?

Edit-Just looked at a few Yankee 30's on yachtworld....very nice! The one I was looking at was a '75, looked like shoal draft? Did they change design much over the years of production...any idea of the years of production?
 
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