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Thanks for the quick replies everyone. The diesel option is definitely more expensive, but can I expect to receive a greater return from that as opposed to just rebuilding/replacing the patro Atomic 4?

If I buy a used/rebuilt Atomic 4 online and have the yard install it the costs will be similar to just rebuilding the Atomic 4 I currently have...

Thoughts?
No, it should be cheaper. If you find a running, used engine and have your yard install, you can probably get by for 3K-4K. Please see the posting in this forum I made about the A4 for sale in Muskegon, MI for $2,500.

Murph
 

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In my normal polite manner i have to say



I find it hard to believe some of you have pulled a motor out of a sailboat



Cleaned up the 40 year mess



You could not possibly have bought many parts form Moyer as i was into over a 1000 dollars for a much more minor rebuild

And doing a complete tear-down is a ***** with the integrated transmission





And then left the boat in a reasonably professional manner
 

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Two thumbs up - didn't that feel great when you lit that thing for the first time in that spotless engine compartment?

I'll bet it cost a whole lot less than the 5 figures a diesel swap would have cost as well.
 

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Tom, the pricing I quoted is right from MM's site. The OP mentions nothing about replacing the shaft, stuffing box shaft log, repainting the engine bay etc. if so, I could see the cost reflected in more parts and more , a lot more labour.

But let's not overestimate the complexity of an atomic 4.

It's a whole lot simpler than this:

an engine which can be torn down and rebuilt in less than 10 hours. fewer bearings, simpler valve train, half as many heads, no separate cylinders or a split case to align and torque down, etc.
 

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Moyer gets between 3000 and 6000 + dollars for a rebuild

Now I know your spoiled because you live in a freshwater area BUT I own TWO saltwater A4s and even with the unit in Seafever having been converted to FWC 30 years ago

I can assure you unless you can drill out bolts much faster than me you will not have one apart in 10 days let alone 10 hours because I had to use supreme caution to break as few things as possible to return it to its current state and that was still over about 2000 in parts as I forgot about all the stuff I used from my second motor and did not have to buy :)

Stuff like rust wiping out the seal area on the output coupling Is a 65 dollar part and it just keeps going up till you hit a pretty big number

If seafevers block had needed a bore job you would have had to drill out ALL 18 studs and a whole bunch of other stuff to get it to the point it could even be put in a boring machine





mucho rust




The donar motor saved me mucho money




The motor mounts that now move ,water pump that pumps and valves SO you can service the impeller without dumping the antifreeze was over 600 dollars alone
 

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sunfish?junior?
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Do you replace the valves or grind the angle on them at a machine shop? I do not know. I assume some intake valves might be good as they have less heat to deal with. Lead has been removed from the gas that acted as a lube for the valves. Is this engine from the 1970s when gas still had lead? Todays valves are made better? Cost of the part vs labor ? Next the head a trip to the machine shop clean, check it for cracks, machine new valve seats and guides so the valve will not wobble and beat out the new seat. This is how I think it might go if it is kind of hard to pull an engine in and out and enjoy a lot of time between major engine work. That is just some points I might think about on the top end. I have not made it to the block and the bottom end. Would they lap the valves and call it good. Price and quality and expectations? Reply asap I would enjoy learning more about inboards. Kind regards ,Lou
 

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Tom, I get your point.

My point is, unless we get more info from the OP- the condition of the engine currently, is it FWC, what is included in the quote, etc. the numbers don't add up.

Further, it is such a dead simple engine, it shouldn't intimidate the novice. get on the tools, get your hands dirty, become intimate with the beast that bears you, (okay, that didn't come out right) and get it done.

I understand the unique joy of removing oxidized studs from oxidized blocks thanks to salt exposure- welcome to old cars and ontario winters. The A4 does have an advantage- no aluminum or magnesium blocks or heads to really make things frustrating.
 

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sunfish?junior?
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Can I ask what do we mean when we say rebuild. ? Does it mean taking parts to the machine shop? Does it mean running a hand drill hone run up an down the cly walls and lapping the valve seats, new gaskets, bearings and done? How much has to be done to get to get x amount of trouble free hours. Each engine will have its on needs. What I am asking is how much is enough on average? Regards, Lou
 

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Lou, it's all about the spec. For instance, if the valve seats and guides are worn beyond spec, if the cylinders are beyond spec, if the crank bearings are out of spec, it is going to cost more to rebuild than an engine that hasn't got scored and ovaled cylinders, spun bearings, sloppy valves, etc. A well maintained and babied 2000 hour engine will be a cheaper rebuild than a beat to hell, never maintained 500 hour engine.
 

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We would most likely agree in person but over the Internet so many parts of somebodys thought process is missing :)

On my boat just getting the motor out

I had to design a tool to reach the bolt heads under the fiberglass engine bed and the time just went UP from there
 

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Another thing to consider in this decision is. How are you going to use the boat? A tired functioning A-4 is just fine if only needed to get you out of the slip and into open water. Whole different thing if you plan to go to the Bahamas. Dan S/V Marian Claire
 

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I have an A4 replacement candidate for you at a reasonable price. Contact me at 5188346041 Al Frakes Port Kent, NY
 

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A big consideration for me would be, what's the condition of the rest of the boat?

I wouldn't sink $6k into a boat that is falling apart. I'd get the engine running and sell as is. On the other hand, a new $10-12k diesel in a beautifully restored and maintained boat may well be an investment that can be (at least partially) recouped in three years time. I'm guessing you're somewhere in the middle, but depending on which end of the spectrum I was leaning toward, would partially guide my decision as to how much I'm willing to spend.
 

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Hi everyone
My friend any auto shop will rebuild it for u , they rebuild engines , I also have spare out board on my boat ,9.5hp it gets me in and out with no problem , $6k is lot of money my friend, u will never get ur money back when u sell,
Good luck
Moe
 

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Discussion Starter #36
There is some great feedback here, thanks to everyone for the input! After reading these threads I've decided to explore the rebuild option myself. I'm good with a wrench, having tackled many auto engine jobs myself, and I think this option is at least worth exploring before I pull out the checkbook. I love the personal pride/knowledge that comes with a DIY project. Grasping the importance of a reliable motor out on the water, I anticipate many hours of research and labor in my future. I plan on meeting with the mechanic at the yard to get a better understanding of the problems...I used the motor all season, and while it occasionally had a rough start, I found it to run like a champ!

The Moyer website seems like a good place to start, and I know I can always rely on the forums to help clear up any questions.

Thanks again for all the input, I never expected such thorough feedback.

Wish me luck!

Chris
 

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Good decision. You are going to get a lot of fun & satisfaction out of the project - a new engine will be a bonus. :D

If you haven't already, I strongly suggest you check out Porfin's thread about his ongoing rebuild of a Perkins 4108. Obviously the specific mechanical info will differ but there are lots of tips & tricks he is doing that will transfer to your Atomic Bomb.

Have fun, take lots of pictures and keep us posted.
 

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sunfish?junior?
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We all wish you the best. If you need a kind word just ask. I think most of us will enjoy your accomplishment, share your pride along the way and when you finish. Keep us updated. Regards, Lou
 

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Discussion Starter #39 (Edited)
Well, its been a few weeks and I thought I'd give an update along with some pics...

I picked up the motor from the harbor, and it was already completely disassembled and housed in several plastic bins. After getting the run down from the lead mechanic, I brought the parts back to the basement of my girlfriends condo (I live in a 1 BR apt in Chicago, which is already cluttered enough with boat parts and tools...thanks Katie!).

Basement_sailnet.jpg
(Candid camera in the dungeon.)

I spent the first weekend going through the work order prepared by the yard, assessing the condition of the various components in question. The main items in need of replacement are: 1 connecting rod, full set of bearings, full gasket set, full set of valve springs, full piston rod set, thermostat, cam shaft grinding (which was already done by the mechanic at the yard), and I decided to have the main components (block, flywheel cover, etc...properly cleaned by a local motor shop).

engine 9.jpg
(The block looks in need of a new paint job!)

engine 10.jpg
(Exhaust Manifold and Valve Cover Plate.)

engine 12.jpg
(The oil pan also could use a new coat of paint.)

After my inspection, I ordered the parts in question from MoyerMarine.com along with the Service and Overhaul Manual and some other basic tools from Amazon.com (piston ring compressor, engine brushes, degreaser, Permatex Form-a-Gasket, etc...). I plan on dropping off the block, flywheel cover, etc... at the engine shop tomorrow to have the old paint removed and the applicable components baked, acid washed (or glass blasted if appropriate) while I tinker with cleaning and oiling the misc. components such as the carburetor, ignition system, and oil pump.

engine 8.jpg
(I examined the rods and pistons for damage. The bearing on one of the rods had begun to spin and was the main culprit in this rebuild...The mechanic explained that due to the spun bearing, the rod experienced compromising temperatures and needed to be replaced. I bought a used one off of him for $40 (top left).)

I've already started degreasing and cleaning the valves and lifters. Most of my today has been spent pouring over the Moyer Overhaul Manual. I've found this extremely helpful (along with some other great posts on this site).

Once I get the parts back from the engine shop, I can start to plan the reassembly.

One quick question: Before deciding on an engine shop, I called around looking form someone who can provide the correct services for the block, etc...and I received recommendations from other engine shops for the place I am ultimately going to work with. The shops owner suggested that we bake the block and perform an acid wash of some type to remove all the paint and gunk built up in the water jacket. The other components, he suggested, should be cleaned with a glass blasting (he said glass was less abrasive on the parts than sand). Do these treatments seem appropriate? I remember my father warning about the potential for pieces of the glass to get lodged in the "nooks and crannies" of the motor, ultimately causing problems down the road (he is rebuilding the motor of his 1968 Thunderbird). Is this something I should be wary of?

Well, that's all I have for now, apologies for the lengthy post. I'm always open to feedback/suggestions so don't hold back.

Happy Easter,

Chris
 

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Glass beading works well - it won't harm machined surface. If they are going to bead the block, I'd get it hot tanked afterwards to ensure all the beads are out of it. If you are getting a set of rifle brushes, going through the oil galleys and so forth afterwards will really ensure it's all clean.

Read Porfin's thread on rebuilding his 4108 - lots of tips on painting the engine inside & out.

Get your rods resized and get the mains line honed as well - better bearing crush if you do and it doesn't cost much if you get it done along with the valve job. If you had a rod bearing spin you'll need to get the crank ground undersize as well. This is all standard engine building procedure.
 
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