[jjablonowski]

A quote from a Major marine insurer automatically includes coverage for claims for cleanup due to accidental discharge of oil or fuel. The insurer says that the $850+K coverage---over and above the "standard" $300K of coverage for property damage/bodily injury---is important "now that laws subject boaters to liability for ...environmental damage."

Thing is...another quote from a competing insurer contains no such coverage.

My boat carries 20 gallons of diesel. Not exactly the Exxon Valdez. So my question: Should I buy this additional coverage? (The quotation, from BoatUS, doesn't break down what portion of the premium goes for "green" coverage.)

 

[kd3pc]

get the coverage...you have no idea who will get involved when/if you have an oil spill...or accident that releases fuel/oil in to the water.

I have seen near panic at the fuel dock, as well as simply ignoring the same 4-5 gallons of fuel, spilled. A lot depends on where the spill occurs, and what they do to mitigate. And who they call to mitigate.

When I had a boat sink, the boat was pumped out in the process of refloating her....all that water was pumped in to 55 gallon drums, shipped off to be mitigated...to the tune of about $50 per barrel. We are talking a LOT of water/barrels. Luckily Boat/US covered it.

 

[glassdad]

Buy the insurance. What happens if your tank leaks when you are anchored out in a nice deserted cove and the tide take the fuel into the tidal zone. The cleanup and fines will be quite expensive.

 

[billyruffn]

What happens if your tank leaks when you are anchored out in a nice deserted cove ....

Deserted cove? The answer is easy: Get underway quick like and beat feet!

 

[Donna_F]

I know of a boat that had a leak. After they left the fuel dock the CG just followed the trail of fuel to them. VERY hefty fine.

 

[joethecobbler]

my mom told me a kid was playing with sticks, and lost an eye! !
he of course moved away. :

 

[joethecobbler]

on a more serious note.
I think a $150 tow boat unlimited towing policy has spill cleanup of three quarters of a million. unless it's changed.

 

[Stumble]

The $850,000 is the statutory maximum for an environmental cleanup fine. I have it and would recommend it. They are getting more and more serious about fining people for spilled fuel.

 

[capta]

Cardi Company in Rhode Island, caused a 60,000, yes that is sixty thousand gallon diesel fuel spill into Narragansett Bay. They didn't do a utilities search before digging up a street, oops. They haven't paid anyone one thin dime, including me (my bottom paint was contaminated to the point of being useless), in fines or reparations. Don't bother with the insurance; if a big powerful company like Cardi doesn't have to pay for a 60k gallon spill, why should you be bothered over a gallon or two here and there? Ain't it grand, livin in the USA?

 

[Puddin'_Tain]

Cardi Company in Rhode Island, caused a 60,000, yes that is sixty thousand gallon diesel fuel spill into Narragansett Bay. They didn't do a utilities search before digging up a street, oops. They haven't paid anyone one thin dime, including me (my bottom paint was contaminated to the point of being useless), in fines or reparations. Don't bother with the insurance; if a big powerful company like Cardi doesn't have to pay for a 60k gallon spill, why should you be bothered over a gallon or two here and there? Ain't it grand, livin in the USA?

I'm not a lawyer, but somehow I can't see that argument getting you very far in court.

 

[joethecobbler]

how about the blood from a stone argument?
and before you try to threaten boat seizure, I paid about 1500-2000 for the present boat and a quick scan of Craigslist indicates there are plenty more available.
insurance is for the scared and the wealthy.
if it were otherwise, it wouldn't have to be mandated by law with threat of force. in many incidents, boating currently exempt, but not for long I fear.

 

[TakeFive]

Deserted cove? The answer is easy: Get underway quick like and beat feet!

...insurance is for the scared and the wealthy.
if it were otherwise, it wouldn't have to be mandated by law with threat of force. in many incidents, boating currently exempt, but not for long I fear.

With attitudes like that, is it any wonder that waterfront land owners want to ban anchoring off their property?

Guys, you reap what you sow. If the sailing/cruising community is responsible and meets it obligation to repair physical and environmental damage that we do (which requires nominal cost insurance for the catastrophic stuff that individuals can't afford to pay), society will view us as responsible people and welcome us.

If you "get the hell out of Dodge" whenever something goes wrong, people will continue to think that cruisers are freeloaders, further restrict access, and view us with a distrustful eye.

All things considered, mandatory insurance might strike the right balance to ensure cruisers are welcomed as responsible visitors to others' waters.

 

[Daydreamer22]

While at the boat show last week I got a quote from Boat US. It included the coverage for "fuel and other spill liability...854,400"

I suppose the "and other" would include holding tank / waste water also.

Thing is, that quote was $54.00 less than my current insurance that doesn't include spill coverage. May be a change in my future.

My boat has an outboard and a porto-pot so I don't think I will create much of a spill if my boat sinks. But if I somehow caused damage that caused a spill that coverage would be nice.

I agree there are areas that are more forgiving than others regarding a spill, but all it would take is is someone to call the EPA and then the haz-mat team shows up....

 

[Puddin'_Tain]

how about the blood from a stone argument?
and before you try to threaten boat seizure, I paid about 1500-2000 for the present boat and a quick scan of Craigslist indicates there are plenty more available.
insurance is for the scared and the wealthy.
if it were otherwise, it wouldn't have to be mandated by law with threat of force. in many incidents, boating currently exempt, but not for long I fear.

Ever hear of wage garnishment? Get a hefty judgment levied against you, particularly for a fine/reimbursement to a government agency, and you could be paying it off for decades.

 

[joethecobbler]

With attitudes like that, is it any wonder that waterfront land owners want to ban anchoring off their property?

Guys, you reap what you sow. If the sailing/cruising community is responsible and meets it obligation to repair physical and environmental damage that we do (which requires nominal cost insurance for the catastrophic stuff that individuals can't afford to pay), society will view us as responsible people and welcome us.

If you "get the hell out of Dodge" whenever something goes wrong, people will continue to think that cruisers are freeloaders, further restrict access, and view us with a distrustful eye.

All things considered, mandatory insurance might strike the right balance to ensure cruisers are welcomed as responsible visitors to others' waters.

I wondered how many minutes it would take for someone to bring out the "straw man" of responsible boater and public perception.
what a crock.
what a failed argument, based on what I MIGHT do or what COULD happen.
Also, nice job lumping me in with the Guy that said haul out of town to avoid repercussions of his acts.

Until I do ANY of the things you're attempting to attribute to me based on my disdain of insurance and your fear of things I've never done. What you're doing is IMO akin to character assassination and fear mongoring an verges on libal.
Finally, if you think for a second that the issue of unfettered anchoring has anything to do with derelict vessels and/or ecological issues, you're more gullible than I gave you credit for.
the real reasons are as old as time.
Greed,power, and control plan and simple.
For if it truly was about the ecology and such then all the municipalities dumping raw sewage and all the industry spills would not be tolerated and allowed to continue to polute every day unabated and without any real repercussions.

Ease off the cool-aid.

 

[TakeFive]

I wondered how many minutes it would take for someone to bring out the "straw man" of responsible boater and public perception.
what a crock...

In this country, public perception is what gets politicians elected.

Politicians write the laws that will either protect or restrict boaters' rights.

So public perception of boaters will have a direct impact on what rights boaters have in the future.

It's not a crock - it's the way the world works.

 

[joethecobbler]

In this country, public perception is what gets politicians elected.

Politicians write the laws that will either protect or restrict boaters' rights.

So public perception of boaters will have a direct impact on what rights boaters have in the future.

It's not a crock - it's the way the world works.

I think the line about what gets politicians elected belongs in the joke thread.
As my observations are, money, greed,and lies win elections.
Tell me, what color is the sky in your world?
And, by what way would you know by a glance would you know if my boat is insured ? and if so to what extent?
in all of the history of navigation no requirements for insurance, but now, by your typed summation it cannot be done without. !!!
now, this is the part of the conversation where you site extreme examples of isolated incidents where you fear monger the gullible.
please. proceed

 

[Stumble]

Cardi Company in Rhode Island, caused a 60,000, yes that is sixty thousand gallon diesel fuel spill into Narragansett Bay. They didn't do a utilities search before digging up a street, oops. They haven't paid anyone one thin dime, including me (my bottom paint was contaminated to the point of being useless), in fines or reparations. Don't bother with the insurance; if a big powerful company like Cardi doesn't have to pay for a 60k gallon spill, why should you be bothered over a gallon or two here and there? Ain't it grand, livin in the USA?

And BP is paying billions in fines and compensation to people. If they couldn't get out of it why do you think you will be able to.

 

[Omatako]

I subscribe to the concept of just being careful.

If my fuel tanks leak, they leak into my boat and I suspect it is a very rare vessel that would be different. That leak I can control and manage.

If my boat sinks, it will hopefully be well away from anywhere that may cause issues with leaking fuel. In fact I did lose a boat close to a harbour and the wreck was recovered with all the fuel still in the tanks.

If I spill fuel on the dock when refueling, that's just negligence and a little care has prevented me from splashing fuel around for the last 35 odd years - long may that continue. I'm not talking about the odd tablespoon here but I can't recall ever spilling any significant amount of fuel - the stuff's way too expensive.

Having said that, if my insurance premium went up by $100 a year to give me nearly a million dollars of extra liability cover (because that's what it is ) I wouldn't have a huge issue paying it. We don't need it in NZ so I don't have it.

And just incidentally, I begin to wonder if the $1m I do have in public liability cover wouldn't cover a significant (relatively speaking) fuel spill? Note to self - check with insurer.

 

[dabnis]

We had our commercial salmon troller berthed at Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco in the early 60's. It was not unusual to see other boats in the harbor pumping out their bilges, including leaked diesel & gear oil. At times the whole inner harbor was coated with a fairly thick, oily film, not good.

Fast forward to now, spill some fuel and you can be in massive trouble with incredible fines. I think that if the "government" or an individual finds out you have any amount of assets they may try to take most/all of them away from you.

The only difference is that the individual will have to take on a contingency lawyer.
"Acquire the money & they will come after it"

Recently, both of our mothers died, leaving inheritances, nothing really big, but enough for us to take out an umbrella policy. Seems like the $850,000 coverage is worth while. Life is a gamble.

Paul T