[Cruisingdad]

THere are many philosophies regarding cruising and, more so, circumnavigating. There are those that may tend to go over the top (much like myself, to admit honestly) where I want to travel in comfort and as much safety as possible. On the other side of the scale, is the "KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid), Go smaller, go now" philosophy.

I would invite both the new and seasoned sailor into this discussion. I believe there should be some disclosure up front as to your sailing experience. It would add merit to your comments and philosophies. Your experience is not meant to remove the validity of your arguments... it is to help the discussion along.

Let's remember thgat we are all friends here and each person is granted his own opinions. Respect them and try to understand their point of view - whether you agree with them or not.

I would like this thread to be informative and a good guide to current and future sailors who wish to embarq on the dream of the deep blue.

Let's kick it off and have fun with it.

Brian

 

[Cruisingdad]

My disclosure:

I have been sailing "large boats" for approximately 15 years or so now. I have sailed in Galveston through the shipping channel, off the coast of California, I have been offshore from Oxnard to Catalina Island and San Diego. About 8-9 years ago, I moved to S Florida with my wife and young child. We lived aboard and cruised about every inch of land including considerable time in the Tortugas. At this point I have 2 children, Chase is now 8 about to turn 9, Glen is 5. We spend almost every weekend on our Catalina 400 on Lake Texmoa, about 100 yards from where they lay up Valiant Yachts. My parents, who did some cruising with us (especially dad), have purchased a Tayana 42. We work together on both boats, so I can comfortably say that I am as knowledgeable of a Tayana 42 as I am my 400, my 380, and not as much as other boats I have sailed.

My philosophy is safety and "comfort". I do not believe in purchasing every gadget known to man, but I have found many of the modern "gadgets" add a level of safety and comfort which I will not leave home without. I also believe that they have made further destinations/shores within the reach of more people that otherwise might never have considered them.

The items I feel are essential to cruising are:

1) SSB - I have to be able to have some link of communication and be able to get weather information. You lose that about 20-25 miles offshore with only a VHF. Also, the ability to email is a cheap way to stay in touch with family and friends back home.

2) Radar - I doubt there is a piece of equipment on my boat I value more than radar. I remember one time in particular when coming in from Catalina Island and being RUN OVER by all the frieghters. Several changed their course at the last second (or so it appeared to us at the helm). THey are litterally on you in minutes. But even more so, it allows me to see markers when coming into a harbor at night, it allows me to watch for other, smaller boats, it can track the rain storms and how then are moving, and gives you eyes in the fog or when visibility is poor. I would NOT go crusiing without radar unless I never left sight of land.

3) Chartplotter. I MIGHT go cruising without a chartplotter, but it would be out of neccessity. The value in a CP cannot be overestimated. It allows you to consistently know exactly wher eyou are and if nothing else to verify your bearings that you have plotted on paper. It makes night navigation vastly easier and safer. It allows you to set in waypoints arnd areas of danger. It allows you to plot courses to minimize your passages. I do not consider it a toy for those too lazy to plot on paper - nor do I put all my trust in it. I do plot on paper every 30mins offshore. I have had them fail twice on me (once I think to lightning... to be fair). Still, it is a great safety and convenience tool. I agree with those who believe that it is too heavily relied on, but it has many positives which make it pretty hard to leave home for me.

4) Autopilot. If youa re going to do any long distance sailing, I cannot imagine going without a windvane or autopilot (the latter having both its positives and negatives). I believe one of the two is a must. A windvane is prefered by many offshore sailors as it requires no power and does better in storms. The autopilot is preferred by many because it account for XTE and interfaces with a Chartplotter to make passages a breeze. They each have their positives and negatives, not to mention costs.

5) EPIRB. Don't leave home without it.

6) Solar/Wind generation. You are required to run lights at night, your electronics draw considerable power, even the bilge pump will pull 5 amps/day. Since most boats are limited in their capacity to incorporate many batteries (with 2-4-D's being typical), you have about 24-48 hours max without power regeneration of some type. Solar and wind can vastly increase the amount of time away from mechanical power generation. We did not have solar or wind on our 380, but we had a diesel generator. Solar is better - much better.

7) Refrigeration. This is not a necessity. I understand that. But I want to enjoy my time at sea, and not live off of dried foods and can foods. I want to enjoy my time at anchor (where you spend 99% of your time) as the same.

8) Tankage. Lots of it, both water and fuel. Each person must consume in water 1/2 gallon-day in normal circumstances or you will dehydrate. However, when sitting in the hot sun of the tropics or working a winch or doing other strenuous activities, that number will go up considerably. You also have to have some water to cook. You have to have some water to wash your hands before cooking and hopefully after you use the restroom. You have to use your main for power regeneration and to motor through some storms and to get off a lee shore, and to go down the ICW, etc. Tankage has to be a serious concern.

9) Boat. I believe a boat should be comfortable down below. It is your home, not a weekend vacation where roughing it is fine. It has to have a lot of room for storage of goods and spare parts. I believe in a well-performing boat, boat one that can take a beating in the 5% storms you will encounter. We can discuss this in more depth later.

10) Room for a tender. I believe you must have a tender. We ended putting countelss miles on ours. I think the resano for this should be obvious.

This is not my complete list, but it is a start. It gives you a good idea of my philosophies and what I believe a cruiser (especially a circum) should take. I would apprecaite other's thoughts.

- CD

 

[Cruisingdad]

There are no wrong answer in this thread as I think they all relate to each other.

The philosophy I am talking about is much about the equipment, as the comfort level, as the safety comfort level, as the boat. Your philosophy on cruising and where your comfort level is.

SOMe adhere to the get me out there on the water asap, I will take minimal precautions with my life and live very meagerly. If the ship goes down, she goes down. On the other end of the spectrum is the: I want every device known to mankind for safety and where is my satelite television!! I have seen both.

It is also a discussion of gear. What gear do you feel is an absolute mandatory? What is optional? What would you not take if it was given to you?

It is your philosophy on cruising, and in reality on life. I think it would be interesting to see different people's philosophy on this matter and how that affected their choices in what they took, their regrets, and what they would change looking back. For example, we did not have a watermaker. We REALLY rationed water. It was kinda tough with a kid, but we managed. Now, looking back, I would get a watermaker if at all possible. Same with an SSB... having that free communication with the outside world would sure have been nice!!!!

On the other hand, we invested in a diesel generator. In all disclosure, I have done so again. but I learned that we really did not run her that much (but when we did, MAN WAS IT NICE!!!). Where before I went I prioritized a generator high on my list so that I could sit in the Tortugas of the World and have Air conditining (like I assume deveryone else did), I get there and you really don't need it. We would run it to charge the batts or cool off the boat when it was raining, but that was about it unless we were feeling really adventurous!!!!!

What are other's thought?? I would like to here Imagine2Frolic's too. That would be a great perspective (from a cheap ole mulithuller... but we won't hold that against him!!).

Brian

 

[Cruisingdad]

Good list CD. Well thought out.

How do you feel about life rafts?

I'm still not sold on radar as a necessity. I agree they are a nice luxury. However, they draw a lot of power when active. And the shipping lane example you gave about the ships bearing down on you and changing course at the last moment was because they were using radar, not because you were. So a radar REFLECTOR might be more valuable as a safety tool, though I've heard their effectiveness is debateable too.

I'm on the fence with EPIRB's too for circumnavigating and bluewater passagemaking. I believe that if you choose to circumnavigate and/or make a major bluewater passage you need to be fully confident in your sailing and survival skills and not rely one bit on rescue from others. If your EPIRB signal is being emitted, you've encountered a major problem and you're likely too far from help for it to matter in the immediate future. But I could be wrong. I'm a bit jaded about EPIRB's after having read Steve Callahan's book Adrift. His EPIRB didn't help and he was constantly rationing it's battery life.

Unless you have no value for your own life and do not care for the feelings of the family you leave behind, you have a responsibility to carry an EPIRB and take the basic precautions to preserve your life as you can. That is my philosophy. Other may differ, but I doubt few people that even go out without an EPIRB would not have pulled it when their ship went down. Keep that in mind.

Regarding the Liferaft, I will show you a pic:

I had it and hated lugging that thing around. It was a $5,000 pain in the but. But I have kids and I have a responsibility to them to do everything possible to be safe. If I wer eprimarily coastal, NO WAY I would buy it. THey are expensive, require lots of maintenance, are hard to see by, etc. Still, it is one of those things that you look back on and say, "Man am I glad I wasted $5,000 on that and never even used it." The alternative ain't so pretty.

Regarding the Radar Reflector, in my opinion, it should be required of EVERY boat that leave goes to sea, right along with life jackets. They are not expensive and can save multiple lives and property. I did not include everything in my list - but that was especially an oversight.

Brian

 

[Cruisingdad]

IZZY,

I have to agree with you neither way is wrong, and that was my point.

CD,

Which specific thoughts would you like for me to express? I was trying to express that with a small boat, and a small amount of money. You can have just as much fun as a big boat.

A large boat, and the funds to care for it is what suits me now. I am much older, ache, not quite so nimble, and not quite so strong either, so the cat suits me now. I would do it all over again in Frolic if need be.

Now that you have cruised, both large and small, which equipment would you take, not take, consider essential, and only put on board if you had the money?

Brian

 

[Cruisingdad]

Hmmmmm...Why Wait? What's my philosophy? Now, there's a topic I can address.

First - background. Ever wonder what happened to some of those musicians you saw on the club circuits. They were "the band" that night and once finished they hit the road for another town.
They were the guys that you never heard of that opened for that big act that was your favorite band and they were the guys that everyone called "the roadies". I'm one of those guys. It was a wonderful experience and I never want to do it again. I started sailing when I was 10. Of course while traveling as a musican I didn't get on a boat but about 5 years ago a sailboat came back into my life. At the time I thought it was an accident. I'm not absolutely convinced that god sent me that boat. In fact, my life is a long list of miracles and I have the big guy upstairs to thank for each and every one of them.

Once gone I don't want to have to work. I'm so lazy that I'm running 4 different business's right now in order to make sure I don't have to work in a few more years. It takes time to do that but I'm working my tail off to accomplish it.

I have 4 kids. The two oldest are step-sons from a previous marriage but I have guardianship of them. (Not going to get into the bio-parents turned into worthless pieces of C*** discussion) I'm gonna make sure they graduate high-school before we're out of here. They'll be elgible for every kind of grant and loan out there for college if they decide to go. The two younger ones? I think the educational system is quickly going to hell and it won't be long before the public school system will become worthless. We'll home school them and they'll be better off for it.

Bigger boat with "most" of the equipment? (see 4 kids) We need room for the crew. However, all that extra crew will sure come in handy at times. I think there are some things that will make it possible for me to provide a little better for the safety of the Admiral and crew. As a husband, father and the man of the house this is my responsibility. EPIRB and liferaft, expensive? YES! But these are just some of the items I feel a responsibility to provide in the best interest of my crew (family).

Why go? God put a big beautiful world out there! I think we have an obligation to explore it and I think I have an obligation to show it to the kids. The book Jonathan Livingston Seagull may be pretty descriptive of how I feel about what we're supposed to do with the time we have on this earth.

Dang, my post turned out a lot shorter than I thought it would! Fair winds and full sails to all!

Good post Roady...

Brian

 

[Cruisingdad]

Hmmm, I will try and comment on a few things too:

Davits: We have always had them. We have them now. We almost NEVER put the tender on davits. It flops all around offshore, even worse in the ICW when a sportfish goes by on half plane, and at anchor when the sun goes down you are too freaking tired.

Dink: RIb has been the best, and I have owned all of them (Rib, roll-up, HPIB). However, hauling that hunk of fiberglass around (especially up the davits) is such a PITA that once again, we hated doing it. We elected, with all its tradeoffs, for a HPIB Hypalon. In theory it planes out like a RIB. In practice, unless lightly loaded, it does not. In theory it handles like a RIB. In practice, it is squirelly on a plane. In theory it is easy to hoist and to deflate and handle. THAT IS TRUE. Still, I think the RIB may still be the best boat for a cruiser. We did pull our RIB 99% of the time. Many people do not. We have been caught offshore with it in a storm and it was not fun. We pulled the plug out of our dink. It had a one way valve. They work prety well, supriingly (until the valve gets old or filled with barnacles or junk).

Boasun's chair: I would try to take one with me... but not the end of the world if you did not. I have gone up on a board with holes. Not fun. Had to clean my shorts a couple of times, but you can do it. Still, having a good chair to stick a bunch of tools with you is great.

Tools, tools, tools, tools. We prepped by putting all the tools on our boat at the marina and everytime we needed something, buying it or bringing it from home and keeping on the boat. Got quite an assortment then. Extas do not hurt of screw drivers and ratchets as they somehow have an attraction to water (especially when up the mast).

Brian

 

[Cruisingdad]

I2f: Good list, btw. I hope this information is good for the members too.

Brian

 

[Cruisingdad]

This has turned into an outstanding thread (in my view, at least). It is a great 'Outside Looking In' view for those that consider cruising and the different things to consider. We have both ends of the spectrum here, and many inbetween.

George - Outstanding writeup. Interesting that how close our views are on most things... yet you still have not become an Indepndent!?? THat is Sway's influence, I know it!!! Seriously, thanks for posting the info. It was very, very good.

Sequitor - Well thought out and informative. It will be especially intersting to evaluate how she did afterwards and what you liked/did not like.

I2f - Thanks for a great contribution to this thread!!! Very, very well thought out and I realize you put a lot of time and effort into this.

TDW, Wind, Marty, Kwalter, et all - All are great thoughts. A lot of different perspectives to digest for everyone.

I think in all of this there is no right or wrong answer... it is different approaches to the same goal and what did and did not work. Again, great thread.

Brian

 

[Cruisingdad]

I am going to make this a sticky as I feel it will be good information for those who are considering getting into boating, LA, or making long passages. Some great viewpoints.

Brian

 

[Cruisingdad]

Vega,

That was an outstanding write-up. Thank you again for taking the time to do it. I feel it provides an excellent perspective on another way to cruise. Again, this is really a great thread because it provides many different view points and "philosophies" on how to get there and make it work... especially from those that have done it and have made it work.

I hope others will participate and/or feel free to ask questions.

Again, thanks to all,

Brian

 

[Cruisingdad]

I AM ONLY REPLYING TO THIS IN SOME DEPTH AS I AM CONCERNED THAT SOMEONE WILL READ THIS INFORMATION WITHOUT CONSIDERING THE DEPTH OF WHO WROTE IT.

Most (barring a couple of exceptions) of the replies on this thread have a disease called "gadgetitis" probably from reading and believing most of the crap espoused in sailing magazines.
Stay home please - if you want a shorebased life with all its amenities, then stay on shore. No wonder so many boats are put up for sale in the West Indies after a rough crossing of the Gulf Stream. All the gadgets in the world won't help you a jot when the S hits the F. Oh, sorry, thats not quite right is it. We can now just press a button and have someone come and rescue us from our own ineptness - like the "sailors" whom recently activated an EPIRB because they had ripped a sail and had run out of fuel. I would have thought knowing how to repair sails (contact cement will do at a pinch) and knowing how to "sail" without an engine is an automatic requirement for anyone sailing offshore, or coastal for that matter.
I do not apologise if I have upset anyone with this post. I am new to this forum, and relatively new to computers - so if I am breaking some etiquette, then so be it.
Inquire of Dave and Jaja Martin. They sailed around the world in a converted CAL 25, and when they had a couple kids they upgraded to a modest steel 33footer and sailed to the Arctic with not a radar, epirb, ssb, watermaker... etc in sight. They are out sailing while most of you lot are on computer forums crapping on about all the gear that, that in my opinion, you DON'T need.

Sorry, my meter is pegged.

After sitting and spending more time than I should have on how to respond to this thread(s), I will go against my gut instinct and discuss some of your comments. First of all, I do have a few questions/statements for you.

1. You claim to be from Washington, so I am just curious why you are writing from New Zealand (PS, I pulled the exact address on your IP... ask your son what that means)?
   
2. If you were a self made millionaire, why are you looking at a Contessa 32? I have never known anyone with financial means to buy such a vessel (and believe me, I know a LOT of 'millionaires'). There is nothing wrong with the boat per se, but there are certianly OTHER boats that would maintain the traditionalist sense you appear to be proposing.
   
3. You are 54, supposedly. You retired at 40, supposedly. Yet, you said you sailed as a youngster 15 years ago. How did you manage to leap frog 30 years? Please tell me (maybe this is how you became a millionaire at 40??... I must have missed that patent). If you can only learn how to reverse it and go backwards, I think you might even make billionaire by 15, I mean 55.
   
4. I have never in my life known a single person of financial independence (and I know a bunch), to put "self made millionaire" in their user page. I am not exactly sure who you are trying to impress here? Are yo uunder the assumption you are the only millionaire on this forum? Hmm. Better check the cost of some of these boats again.
   
5. I am a little perplexed at your boat. You see, I did a search on Yachtworld, and there is not a single (not one) Contessa 32 available in the US. THere is one in Canada - but since it still has an engine in it (which you said was ripped out on the boat you are looking at to make space for sails or something... an absolutely brilliant move), I am curious how you came about this boat and where it actually lies (no pun intended)? I guess they are selling it on their own? And so you, as a millionaire, are going to actually consider buying a boat with no engine, no broker, no review of other boats, (and yes, no BS)? Thank God you found Sailnet first, eh?
   
6. I have never heard a single person at 54 use the words "Sweet" to describe a boat. My 8 yo kid does, but not too many people past maturity. Sorry, just had to throw that out there.
   
7. Let me understand another thing: You read a book once on how somebody sailed without any gadgets (as you put it), and because you sailed 15 years ago on a "small fixed keel boat" (using your words) when you were a youngster (at 40), you now understand the complexities of what is and what is not involved in passagemaking or cruising? And because you sailed a day sailor once 15 years ago you do not believe you need an engine? Just because Lin and Larry did it or Dave and Jaja (whoever they are), what makes you think YOU are good enough to do it?
   
8. Most experienced cruisers KNOW their boats. That you would propose the question(s) on a Contessa 32 then spew your remarks on "gadgetitis" sounds kinda funny to me. In fact, whiplash comes to mind.
   
9. How did you go cruising 20 years ago, if you did not retire until you were 40 (14 years ago) and learned to sail when you were a youngster 15 years ago? I am a bit confused.
   
10. Last question: How is the weather in New Zealand today?

Most (barring a couple of exceptions) of the replies on this thread have a disease called "gadgetitis" probably from reading and believing most of the crap espoused in sailing magazines.
Stay home please - if you want a shorebased life with all its amenities, then stay on shore.

On the contrary, if you had taken the time to read the 685,000 posts (or if you had spent just a second more researching here than you did on the Contessa 32... a common mistake for new, unexperienced sailors), you would have realized that most of us have actually done what we talk about. Check the pictures here, or the blogs (better ask your kid what that means), or review some of the write-ups in magazines (the ones you despise). I have posted many pics and discussions of our experience alone, as have many of the other posters. We didn't get it from a magazine. We got it from experience. And even the very spartans of us suggest some of the very basics you dismiss as unecessary. Of course it helps when you have actually been to sea.

No wonder so many boats are put up for sale in the West Indies after a rough crossing of the Gulf Stream. All the gadgets in the world won't help you a jot when the S hits the F. Oh, sorry, thats not quite right is it.

And you know this, how? Have you ever even been outside the sight of land? Oh, I forgot. You sailed a small fixed keel when you were a youngster at 40.

Now, reality folks, from someone that actually has done it: Yes, this stuff does help you considerably. They makes life easier and can keep the crew more alert for when it really does get mean. For one thing, it is a bear self steering for hours on end. It wears a small crew down. If you can crawl under your dodger (especially when it is raining) and glance around while the boat steers herself (yes, James, even through storms), it is makes you more alert for when the boat cannot sail itself. SSB/weather fax can help you determine weather routing. When offshore, you can use the SSB to get updates and check in. Many of these gadgets, though not neccesary, do allow you to travel in considerably more safety for you, the crew, and for others out there. I don't care how many men you have on watch, if it is pea soup, you won't see a thing. Radar can help considerably with collision avoidance. Freighters can run 35kts and will be on you before you know it (especially when coming into busy harbors).

Oh, sorry, thats not quite right is it. We can now just press a button and have someone come and rescue us from our own ineptness - like the "sailors" whom recently activated an EPIRB because they had ripped a sail and had run out of fuel. I would have thought knowing how to repair sails (contact cement will do at a pinch) and knowing how to "sail" without an engine is an automatic requirement for anyone sailing offshore, or coastal for that matter.

No, you can't. Depends on where you are located actually. If you are far enough offshore, you are on your own, buddy. Unfortunately (and please take note of this), your cell phone gets poor coverage in the middle of the Atlantic/Pacific. Roaming fees may apply. As such, you might want to consider another way to get someone to come assist. THere is nothing wrong with assistance. Sailors have helped sailors since the beginning of time. Accidents happen. The trick is to practice the best seamanship you can (mileage may vary), and be as prepared and knowledgeable as you can so that you do not needlessly risk others lives.

Regarding your comment on Liferafts or whatever, opinoins vary. We carried one. We will again. I hated it and am happy to say that I wasted 5k on somthing I never used. My opinion might be different should I had not wasted that money on it. But I had a kiddo and felt a neccessity to provide as much of a safety net as possible. And for those that say that they will just use their dink, let me share with you that until you have been in a good storm offshore, you will not appreciate how little usefulness that dink will be seas are breaking around you. It is fair to say that if it brought down your boat, it won't do the dink much good either. Liferafts are made to bob along in those seas. They also carry supplies for basic survival and are (hopefully) easier to see from air than a dink or you treading water. But each sailor has to make their own decision on that on the safety level they are comfortable with.

- CD

PS James007 - This is M. I hope you can hear me. I find your opinion(s) uneducated and without merit. I encourage everyone to participate on this thread - whether they are accomplished sailors, newibies dreaming, or self made millionaires that sailed a small boat once 15 years ago. But I do find your arrogance, negativity, and nastiness unpalatable - which is why we are having this discussion in the open as you chose to do. So, and read this very carefully, if you have any interst in participating in this forum past 6 posts (the same forum you have been asking questions of while making fun of those that participate here), I reccomend you find a way to tone down the rhetoric, or 007 will be your last post, I will ban you from the sight, and I will permanently block you IP from even being able to view this place. This is M, over and out.

 

[Cruisingdad]

I'll get back to the question;

My philosophy is light, small and alone, I want to test my boat, my self and the world, I want to go to the places only a few people ever see and I want to be independant and self reliant doing it. I'll use technology where and when it's useful. The reason for going is because I want to and I can, nothing more and nothing less...

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that philosophy. Period. And that is what this discussion is about - different ways of doing things. And let us not forget that the seas were sailed for hundreds (thousands) of years without any of the things we have today. Yet, I feel the emphasis of such illustrations should be less "wow, they did it so can I" and more, "Dang! THose guys were outstanding sailors.... the lost art of true seamanship... tougher than nails... very lucky."

There is also no shortage of shipwrecks laying on the bottom of the ocean from Egyptian Rafts, Carthaginian quadriremes, Roman triremes, English/French Frigates, late day wooden schooners, the Titanic, frieghters, and many more private vessels of which nothing will ever be found of ship or crew. I believe that many of the modern day devices and electronics make the oceans safer and the crew and captain safer. Yes, they are likely used as a crutch more than a tool - but therein lies the ultimate debate: to take or not to take. And more importantly, how will you use them? Will they suplement already outstanding seamaship skills? Or, will they keep you from having to develop them in the first place? Who knows. It depends on the captain and his philosophies. Thus, this thread: The Philosophies of Cruising and Circum. That is why I feel a good discussion of those philosophies merits a place in this forum.

- CD

 

[Cruisingdad]

Oh i'm all for electronics, don't get me wrong in that respect, I'd be a silly man not to use what's available...but i'll rely on myself and my skills to make the passage safer...

As for those great seamen of yesteryear, it's also useful remember that for most it wasn't a hobby but their livelihood...

Quite true... and for many it was not a profession of their choosing. Still, outstanding seamanship (and maybe some that was not so outstanding!!!)

You will do fine!!

- CD

 

[Cruisingdad]

CD,

Maybe that should be Mr. CD? Talk about hitting the mark....WOW

Even Magellan took every modern instrument, and tool he could afford, and I think ice sounds lovely in my glass tinkling as I watch a sunset....lololol....i2f

I believe this is related... so I will just tell you that Ice was one of the most valued commodities on our boat!!!! A friend of ours used to hand his wife one ice cube for their drink, plop it in her glass, and tell her, "Now, do you realize how much diesel that is!??"

HEHE! I love it.

I also remember this sailor we met in the Tortugas. He was telling us that he had just gotten back from the bahamas and this motor boat pulled up. Apparently his freezer had frozen up so the MB chipped off the ice and threw it overboard (in front of everyone). THeir was nothing short of a lynch mob around his boat demanding he give it away next time or swim back to the US!!!

Ice... you just cannot appreciate it until you have spent a long time without it!! And I wouldn't jiggle that glass infront of too many sailors in a hot anchorage! You will end up like that motor boater!

Brian

 

[Cruisingdad]

Regarding boat size and seamanship... my opinions:

I feel that boats have gotten bigger because of the systems involved. Whether the seamanship has gone down?? I don't know. Possibly. I believe it is more a function of the equipment you can afford on larger boats than the boat size (if that makes sense)?

I do think that the boats of today are much more comfortable. I think that it has allowed people that could not (or would not) have gone sailing/cruising before, to go now. Perhaps these people should never have gone in the first place? Me, I am glad to see them out there (with some exceptions). I have also seen people stay into sailing longer. From roller furlings, electric winches, windlass, etc... it has allowed people to maintain their passion while losing physical strength due to age.

Of course, that has come at a trade off. I agree with the comments above about many boats being well suited (out of the box) as a great marina boat and poor cruiser or anything outside of the showroom. Compare, for example, the inside of a Tayana or Valiant against a Bene, Catalina, or Hunter ( to pick on production boats a moment). The Tayana will have fiddle boards everywhere and lots of closed cabinetry with few open shelves. Why? What good are open shelves in a sailboat unless she never sails!!??? Drives me bonkers. But when you pack in all these cabinets on a boat, you can make a big fat boat real small quickly (at least to an untrained eye). So people go on these boats at the boat show and buy for the big open space and shelves, where flower will go, and pillows, and tv's, and decorations. I have seen it sooooo many times. THere is nothing wrong with a home like touch to a boat, but if you have to spend an hour or two stowing crap just to go for a short sail, you will never sail.

On the flip side of that argument, I think that open, comfortable floor plans have been too poorly regarded in many offshore boats. Yes, it is true that those open plans can get you hurt on a crossing - but it is also true that the crossings of the world make up only a very small percentage of your time aboard. I will say that it would be easier to rig an open floor plan boat down below to make it safer for a hard crossing than it is to take a tight little uncomfortable boat and make it comfortable at anchor.

I honestly think that many people do not put enough empahsis into making their boat comfortable and get burnt out on tight living space. A comfortable boat is mandatory for cruising in my opinion. I'm not out there to prove anything. What could I prove anyways? It has all been done already by better people than me. I am out there to see the world, the people, the cultures, and be a part of nature while sharing it with my family. I wish to do that in at least some level of comfort (at last what I can afford). And for the floating condo's comment, let me just tell you that you cannot make ANY boat, especially anywhere near 40 feet or smaller, an apartment or condo. Ain't gonna happen. What do you have in that boat... a couple hundred sf at best?? How much of that is taken up with cabinetry and furniture??

I remember Tom Neale talking about this and it is funny how closely we agree on things. There were many times we would motor to weather instead of sailing because we did not want crap flying everywhere. I know we are not supposed to talk about that on sailing forums... but at least I am being honest!! I will do it still! Again, I have nothing to prove and have done my hard time on the rail. I practice every once in a while... but I think it is more to fool myself into thinking I can handle it than when the real stuff hits. I am no expert. I learn something new all the time. But I have also learned over the years what does and does not work for us. Others feel different and I wish them all the fun their boats and wives will take.

- CD

 

[Cruisingdad]

The Polynesians, my ancestors, used dolphins, birds, and whales for direction at times when lost due to cloud cover, and change in wind direction for too long. They slowly changed the fresh drinking water with adding salt water. These people were real minimilist...:laugher :laugher ....i2f

Is that true about adding the salt water?? I had never heard that. Incredible.

Brian

 

[Cruisingdad]

CD, Did I ever tell you about the time 37 years ago when I sailed a Beneteau 50 without an engine around the moon ???

Stew and et all, Ignore James's ramblings, but please look back further in this thread at some of Vega's posts on doing it small and simple but with great common sense.....

Can i say there is always in life two extremes, most of us will be somewhere in the middle.

Agreed. THat is exactly why I invited Vega to this thread. I feel he gives a great pic of the other side.

- CD

 

[Cruisingdad]

Everyone,

I received a nice PM from James007. He was in fact a college student writing a paper on the subject and tested this thread and its participants to receive a reaction and evaluate it. As such, I believe we can appropriately dismiss his conclusions and comments.

I merely point this out now in the event that someone would take his advice. I take this thread seriously as I feel it could weigh on the decisions and ultimate judgements of those who read it.

- CD

 

[Cruisingdad]

As I understand it, this is an invitation to share my philosophy about sailing, cruising and circumnavigation. So my philosophy is that I just want to sail, but I am not going anywhere, that is, just to the next harbour. Remaining in that harbour for the rest of my life is one of the possible options I have. Under this philosophy I started sailing from Oslo, Norway towards south, last summer, with absolutely no hurry, as I was retired that year. I have posted a photo of my ship in some other thread that I hope i manage to link to: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/living-aboard/41289-living-mooring-3.html#post315765.

Under this philosophy I finally reached the bay Of Biscay, where my ship was lost by another ship that had agreed to tow it ashore, to the harbour of Arcachon in France, because of engine trouble. The story is blogged Tjaldurs reise til Karibbien - Bjørn. This blog is in Norwegian, but google has a facility for translating websites from any language to any other. This translation is possibly more fun to read than the original, as google really invents some fascinating metaphors in the translation.

Since I lived in my ship and no insurance company wanted to insure a ship that was older than 70 years, (my ship was 75) I am now back in Oslo saving money out of my decent, but not luxurious retirement (67 % of the average of my 20 best earning years as a municipally employed lion tamer, or as the community of Oslo would describe it: director of an institution for juvenile delinquents.

Accordingly my philosophy has developed into a quite simple one. I will sail with whatever I have got by next spring and I will buy the equipment as I sail along. The only thing I know for sure is that the boat will be between 30 - 35 feet. Probably built around -85. It will have a long keel and at least 35 % of the weight under the water line.

Concerning equipment, a radar will be the first piece of equipment that I will buy. (I have already the charts, as C-map was very helpfull in restoring my charts and NavSimm was very helpful in restoring my chart-reader on my new laptop. (Absolutely everything was lost except the few clothes that I was waring and my Visa-card).

Ouch... what a loss!! she looked a beautiful boat! Nice to have you around here too!

- CD