[aloof]

Triple inline spreaders. Single lowers. The chainplates are slightly aft of the mast center as are the actual spreader tips. That may help the prebend. But I don't know...never asked. The mast bends because the partners push it forward at deck level against the step and backstay. It's a bendy mast section, too.

Baby stay might help with spinnaker pole loads, but the "chicken stays" are specifically for that. Actually a check stay, they run from head level on the mast to the foredeck. Such forces are unlikely except in absolutely crazy pole-forward racing. Especially on boats that load up...IOR...instead of surfing the loads away. Or if the pole and sail tend to get stuffed into the sea.

 

[hellosailor]

In the US, you can buy a car, own a car, register a car, and get a driver's license, without any knowledge of how to change a spare tire. (Well duh, you'd obviously call the road club or buy a new car, wouldn't you?)

In France, I'm told that if you can't show proficiency at how to change a spare tire or spark plug, you don't get a license at all. At least, it was that way circa 1970 when my friend had to do that.)

So, rigging? So what, some shmuck buys a boat and rig collapses. With any luck, all involved parties drown, the lawyers are not involved, and the crabs get to eat. As the gods intended them to.

I fail to see a problem, except for failing to feed the crabs.

 

[albrazzi]

Looks like the keel step is the key to bending a mast, I get it now. Looks like a good start back up on a good discussion. Thanks for the enlightenment. Like I said I have a lot to do. At least this year I can make the rig a priority.

 

[albrazzi]

In the US, you can buy a car, own a car, register a car, and get a driver's license, without any knowledge of how to change a spare tire. (Well duh, you'd obviously call the road club or buy a new car, wouldn't you?)

In France, I'm told that if you can't show proficiency at how to change a spare tire or spark plug, you don't get a license at all. At least, it was that way circa 1970 when my friend had to do that.)

So, rigging? So what, some shmuck buys a boat and rig collapses. With any luck, all involved parties drown, the lawyers are not involved, and the crabs get to eat. As the gods intended them to.

I fail to see a problem, except for failing to feed the crabs.

I cant tell what you are trying to say here. I'm trying to reopen a sticky on Rig set-up not asking a question on whether or not to I should replace my 25 year old rusty stays.
Certainly I don't want to stifle anyone's free speech, I was just hoping to keep it on topic.

 

[Bleemus]

Re: Adjusting Your Rig, step by step.

The fact that your spreaders tips and chainplates are slightly behind mast center will cause mast bend through shroud tension.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Faster]

Often times the baby stay is there simply to reduce/eliminate mast pumping in certain conditions, esp if it's non adjustable on the fly. Such 'fixed' babystays are not sail shape controls.

 

[albrazzi]

Often times the baby stay is there simply to reduce/eliminate mast pumping in certain conditions, esp if it's non adjustable on the fly. Such 'fixed' babystays are not sail shape controls.

Not even considering it holds the mast forward as you tension the backstay? Like I have said I haven't looked at the deck penetration for construction. What I'm reading as the "partners" is (I assume) the mast being fixed to the deck in some way. Is that correct? Could a Babystay boat use the Babystay connecting point as a "pivot" if you will, and the Mast floats in the deck opening or do I have some sort of hard sealant in that area I'm not seeing.
Again CS 30 with Selden mast. No indication or reason to believe all is not original.

 

[Faster]

Not even considering it holds the mast forward as you tension the backstay? Like I have said I haven't looked at the deck penetration for construction. What I'm reading as the "partners" is (I assume) the mast being fixed to the deck in some way. Is that correct? Could a Babystay boat use the Babystay connecting point as a "pivot" if you will, and the Mast floats in the deck opening or do I have some sort of hard sealant in that area I'm not seeing.
Again CS 30 with Selden mast. No indication or reason to believe all is not original.

"Partners" is where the mast passes through the deck opening.. usually wedges are placed here prior to the boot to hold the mast in the right position within the hole. "Spartite" is a pourable rubber compound that sets up kind of hard and is often used in place of wedges (which can occasionally shake loose in the wilder going)

Exactly where you wedge the mast in the partners (depending on clearance space) can help determine rake and/or prebend. It would be very odd to see a setup where the partners were allowed to 'float'.

Yes, the baby stay can be used to induce some forward mast bend, and indeed the adjustable types like C&C liked to use did just that as long as you have in-line shrouds. The minute you triangulate with swept spreaders/aft shrouds you lose that adjustability.

When adjusting the backstay usually the main objective is to tension the forestay to reduce luff sag. If the backstay is very powerful, you can induce compression bending in the mast - if the mast is allowed to bend too much, you lose transferring that force to the forestay. Limiting mast bend is a checkstay's job, pretty much the opposite action of a babystay.

Anyhow, on your boat sounds like you want to set the babystay to give you some 'prebend'.. and how you leave it will depend on your mainsail's shape.

 

[albrazzi]

Thanks for the explanation, I might lift my Mast boot just for a look see. It looks like the intent of my Babystay is to help create the arc as the mast bends so the stress is not all on the partners.

 

[Untrained]

old thread, but relevant to me.
I'm a newbie to sailing, learning by doing and reading. First boat 35' masthead sloop, 50' mast ,swept back spreaders (2 of them).
I can grab my roller furled genoa and move it 6-8" in any direction. I hadn't noticed it until now.
How much should I be able to move it by hand? I bought a loos tension gauge but i'd have to remove the furling setup to use it on my headstay (I think).
Any advice?

 

[overbored]

The forestay length sets the mast rake, fore and aft position on the mast, which is used to balance the helm, weather or lee helm. the backstay sets the forestay tension for the amount of forestay sag. the jib is cut for a given forestay sag. you don't need to use a Loos on the forestay. the Loos is used to set up the rigging at the dock and then you go sailing to to make final adjustments to the rig for the conditions and the sails.

 

[albrazzi]

old thread, but relevant to me.
I'm a newbie to sailing, learning by doing and reading. First boat 35' masthead sloop, 50' mast ,swept back spreaders (2 of them).
I can grab my roller furled genoa and move it 6-8" in any direction. I hadn't noticed it until now.
How much should I be able to move it by hand? I bought a loos tension gauge but i'd have to remove the furling setup to use it on my headstay (I think).
Any advice?

Welcome to the discussion, I am learning as well but recent upgrades have made me smarter than last year:angel

That's too much headstay sag for anything other than off wind points of sail. Any attempt to go close hauled in all but the lightest of airs will push your bow over and just over power the boat. Do you have a tension guage? and with swept stays you need to set the backstay first to set the headstay then look at the stays (shrouds) get or borrow a LOOS or equivalent, once you use it a while you can tell by feel.
Do you have a backstay adjuster, not a must have, but they are nice if you're doing any Racing even casually.
Basically you set everything for moderate conditions without an adjustable, and an adjustable backstay lets you loosen the rig as well as tighten it up for heavy upwind.

 

[overbored]

I doubt you have swept back spreaders on a Ericson 35-3 you do have the aft lower shrouds if that is what you are reefing to as swept back. Erickson yachts.org has some of the original rig tuning docs that might be helpful.

 

[RichH]

QUOTE - "How much should I be able to move it by hand? I bought a loos tension gauge but i'd have to remove the furling setup to use it on my headstay (I think).
Any advice?"

Pushing or pulling on any loaded wire at 90° can impart 'bodacious' loads along the length of that wire.
If the angle to the top of your mast with your forestay is visually close the angle that backstay makes with the top of the mast .... your backstay tension will be close to the tension in the forestay .... when you are initially setting up your 'basic' (at the dock, etc.) rig tensions.

The real tension in that forestay wire depends on how much 'curvature' was cut into the luff of your jib/genoa youre using. Most jibs/genoas are cut for a normal boat sailing (beating to windward) in 12-15kts. of wind. If you want optimal precision for forestay (approx. backstay) tension ... no gage needed, go here: http://www.ftp.tognews.com/GoogleFiles/Matching Luff Hollow.pdf

Edit/Add Note: this article was written for cutter rig jockeys; so to make this article applicable to sloop drivers, simply use the word 'forestay' in place of 'headstay'.

 

[Untrained]

Overbored, yep , you're right. Swept back stays go much farther back than mine. Thanks for the correction.
Rich, that's a good article, but with a roller furled Genoa, I don't think it's applicable. The info is appreciated.

 

[Untrained]

Albrazzi, Thank you also. Good info.

 

[overbored]

Overbored, yep , you're right. Swept back stays go much farther back than mine. Thanks for the correction.
Rich, that's a good article, but with a roller furled Genoa, I don't think it's applicable. The info is appreciated.

Really does not matter if roller furled or not , luff curve works the same way

 

[Untrained]

Really does not matter if roller furled or not , luff curve works the same way

now i'm really confused. Luff is the front of the genoa which is fed into a slot on my roller furler. isn't it?
So, how..... I really not sure if I want to know at this point. LOL Maybe it's too advanced for where I am right now.

OK, I had to re read the article linked. I understand now.
Thanks again for setting me straight.

 

[RichH]

Rich, that's a good article, but with a roller furled Genoa, I don't think it's applicable. The info is appreciated.

Its most definitely applicable with ALL roller furling-reefing gear as well as tuff-luff and hanked-on. The correct tension of the forestay or (headstay) is responsible for the shape of the luff, etc.

My article is based on 'messing about' with the top-level super-sailors of the 70s & 80s .... no 'guessing' involved.
Try it, you may like it. ;-)

 

[Untrained]

Its most definitely applicable with ALL roller furling-reefing gear as well as tuff-luff and hanked-on. The correct tension of the forestay or (headstay) is responsible for the shape of the luff, etc.

My article is based on 'messing about' with the top-level super-sailors of the 70s & 80s .... no 'guessing' involved.
Try it, you may like it. ;-)

Rich,
Yes , as I said in my post. After re reading the article it does make
sense to me.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. It is appreciated.
:2 boat: