[scocchius]

We're fairly new to sailing and are looking to purchase a used boat, but could use some advice.
The boat will be docked in the San Francisco Bay, but in a spot that can get shallow when the tide is low. We've been looking at swing keel boats (catalina 25' specifically), but recently found a water ballast one as well. I've read on other forum posts that water ballasts are not the best to leave in the water all the time and that swing keels have their share of problems as well.

It seems like the prevailing opinion is that fixed keel is the best for the SF Bay, but any thoughts on leaving a fixed keel in the mud now and then? I think the bay the boat will be in probably gets down to about 2' depth at its lowest.

Any other suggestions for a good fit for our situation are welcomed!

Thanks,
Stephanie

 

[celenoglu]

You already answered you own questions. It is not a good idea to keep a boat on her keel even if the bottom is mud, although strongly attached the keel might even break the hull. Swing keel and water ballast are not the best options either. Difficult to select...

 

[blutoyz]

2' is awful shallow, look for a deeper marina or a motor sailor like the MacGregor

 

[Faster]

I wouldn't want to be in a marina that routinely drops to 2 feet depth with a 4 foot draft boat. It's hard on the boat, the dock will literally be hanging off your cleats besides the boat sitting hard on the bottom.

A shallow hulled swing/lift keel would be the ticket for that situation. I don't believe any "bottom of hull" water ballast is the answer - the weight has no righting arm to speak of and is not heavy relative to the water in any case. Water ballast situated under the upper outer deck edges can be incredibly effective, but is complex requiring transfer pumps/piping and time to get it done. You'll typically find that on ocean racers who tack relatively rarely in most cases.

Boats like some of the S2 models that have vertically lifting ballasted keels are probably the best solution, nearly fixed keel characteristics in a shallow-possible package. On the down side it's more work to crank such a keel up into the retracted position than your typical swinging centerboard.

For SF bay, in particular, I'd think you'd ultimately be happier with a fixed keel and a proper marina to put her in.

 

[gedaggett]

Agree that looking at something like a MacGregor might be the best option. If you could find one of the older 24 or 26's in good shape they only draft 18" with the keel up. I sailed a MacGregor 2-22 for a while and loved the sailing characteristics of the boat and with the pop top it was comfortable at the dock. They can also handle a little weather and you have 500 - 600 lbs of steel ballast that is 5 foot draft when fully lowered. I could sail my 22 with full canvas (110 jib) to 15-18 knots with no reefing in the main. My best Speed over water on that boat was 7.5 knots on a beam reach in 20knt winds with a single reef and a full 110 jib. I would cruise at 4.5 - 6 knots in moderate winds. I both trailer sailed it and had it on a slip and it was good for both.

I do not like water ballast boats. But some people love them.

 

[krisscross]

Another option might be a twin keel boat, like the Westerly Centaur. They are made specifically for the conditions you describe. Not very expensive, sail reasonably well, and are very seaworthy.

 

[Faster]

Another option might be a twin keel boat, like the Westerly Centaur. They are made specifically for the conditions you describe. Not very expensive, sail reasonably well, and are very seaworthy.

But maybe a very rare bird on the US west coast???

 

[krisscross]

But maybe a very rare bird on the US west coast???

Good point. But the shipping of these boats is relatively cheap.

 

[SENCMac26x]

Doesn't Catalina have a shoal keel version of the 25?

Also, I've had swing and Water Ballast (trailerable boats) and I've not had any problems with either.

Though they may not be the "Best" for all types of sailing, they are still time-proven, reliable designs.

I prefer my WB because I can treat the water or drain it when stored for longer periods and I don't have to worry about rusting cables/pins etc.

 

[Kyhillbilly]

If you have a boat you will learn how to work on it or pay somebody else big bucks to do the job. I have a swing keel and really can't see it being that much work compared to all the work a boat requires. I think the cat25 swing keel is about 2'8" with board up but the cat22 is about 18" board up.

 

[scocchius]

thanks for all the replies!! i appreciate the input

 

[sciencebum]

What marina are you at that has such a shallow draft? Berkeley Marina has open slips I think...

 

[scocchius]

it's a private marina in southern marin.. the price is right, so it's hard to justify paying to keep it elsewhere!

 

[capt jgwinks]

My family had a twin keel Thames Marine 20 footer back on the 60's and really liked it. Not real fast but indestructible and made to take the ground and sit level. Pretty rare here but there are a few around from a few different makers. Water ballet is great if you are going to trailer a lot as the empty tank doesn't weigh anything, but not the best underway, and you still have a center board to deal with. Drop keel has problems with it's winch and cable. A shallow draft fixed keel is probably the best choice but does limit your selection.

 

[Stumble]

In water this shallow I would really suggest looking at a multihull. If you want to stay in the 25' range then something like a Corsair F24 would be high on my list.