[patrickrea]

Been a long time since I have posted here but I'm getting back in after being boat-less for 2 years. Looking around yachtworld.com for a Niagara 35 or CS36, I came across this lady. 1984 Allmand 35' Tri-cabin Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Decently appointed from an electronics point of view, I know she'll need a rework in the galley as they've ripped out the stove. Seems to offer lots of storage for a single guy or a couple living aboard. Decent draft for a 35' boat (only 5') with a keel halfway between a a fin and a full keel. Should be stable in a seaway.

I like the offset companionway as it makes the quarterberth larger.

Any thoughts? Any experience with this builder before I send a surveyor down there from Toronto

 

[killarney_sailor]

It would help to know what your intentions are for the boat. My impression is that the Allmand is a step down in overall quality from both the Niagara and the CS, but the price of course is quite good.

 

[patrickrea]

The initial goal is to refit as required in Toronto and then take a little trip up to my cottage on Georgian Bay by way of the Welland Canal and then back to Toronto, as a shakedown cruise.

The real trip will be heading south for a while by way of the St. Lawrence Seaway, Newfoundland.

The almostfull length keel makes me think she'll track straighter than the CS, assuming the rig is balanced.

 

[killarney_sailor]

Assuming you balance the rig on the CS or Niagara, they should track just fine too. I had a Niagara 35 and quite liked the long fin keel setup. If you are going no further than Newfoundland and back and watch your weather the Allmand should be fine, but I don't think it is as well-built as the other boats. A longish keel makes fine manoeuvring in marinas and the like 'interesting'. Ask me how I know, our boat has a draft of 12' with the board down. The result is that the keel, where the board goes, is quite long. I can turn to the right really well, turning left - well some 90° turns have turned out to be 270° to the right.

I would not send a surveyor from Toronto to look at the boat. Would find a local one (not someone recommended only by the selling broker). It would be cheaper.

 

[patrickrea]

Assuming you balance the rig on the CS or Niagara, they should track just fine too. I had a Niagara 35 and quite liked the long fin keel setup. If you are going no further than Newfoundland and back and watch your weather the Allmand should be fine, but I don't think it is as well-built as the other boats.

I'm looking to head a lot farther than Newfoundland. Caribbean and possibly the south Pacific. Definitely all the way round to BC.

A longish keel makes fine manoeuvring in marinas and the like 'interesting'. Ask me how I know, our boat has a draft of 12' with the board down. The result is that the keel, where the board goes, is quite long. I can turn to the right really well, turning left - well some 90° turns have turned out to be 270° to the right.

My last boat was a 30' ex-IOR 1/2 Ton with a 2 bladed prop and a misbehaving Atomic IV in a marina that had a sandbar on the approach to my slip so I'm used to "interesting".

I would not send a surveyor from Toronto to look at the boat. Would find a local one (not someone recommended only by the selling broker). It would be cheaper.

I would trust my surveyor more. He surveyed my last boat for insurance purposes and I know a bunch of other people who have used him as well with excellent results. I would check his travel rates first.

 

[jimgo]

I'm almost positive that's not an Allmand 35, that's the 31. The 35's had a different galley lay-out. I have the 31, as does David_E.

Regarding the build quality, they are decent boats, but I would agree that they aren't up to snuff with CS or Niagra. Several of the Allmand owners have ventured pretty far with theirs (see, e.g., ISSUU - Southwindsmarch2010 by SOUTHWINDS Magazine and A medical crisis leads Marti to buy a sailboat and learn to cruise « The Women and Cruising Blog).

 

[aa3jy]

I'm almost positive that's not an Allmand 35, that's the 31. The 35's had a different galley lay-out. I have the 31, as does David_E.

Allmand 31 vs. 35

The biggest determining factor are the number of ports and the transom profile...
Owners

Clay
( a former Allmand 31 owner)

 

[jimgo]

That is a self-reported list. Check out sailboatdata.com and they pics on Yachtworld and Sailboatlistings

 

[killarney_sailor]

I am not saying your surveyor is not entirely capable, just that it adds significantly to the boat cost. If I wanted to get to BC I would be looking at the CS, Niagara, or something else of that ilk. If you don't mind, what sort of budget are you considering?

I had a Max-Prop on my Niagara - a thing of beauty and a joy forever. I could do tight figure-8s in reverse with total control.

 

[patrickrea]

There's the boat you want and then there's the boat you end up with. That being said, budget is in the range of US$30-40K. I'd rather spend a little extra to get a boat that has updated electronics and is properly equipped for cruising (heating and a decent stove). But if I saw a decent boat at a decent price, I don't mind doing the work myself.

By training I am a theatrical lighting and sound tech and thanks to my schooling, electricity doesn't scare me. I can operate anything from a monster table saw to a sewing machine. I also designed and manufactured electronics, so I have that side taken care of.

 

[jimgo]

Not to beat a dead horse, but here's the sales brochure for the Allmand 35. You can see the difference in the cabin lay-out:
Sales Brochure

 

[Dave_E]

Hi Patrick,

This is most definitely a 35 footer... destroyer bow and sloped transom. The interior is very similar to the 31 (but sorry to say not any bigger at all) and yes, very liveable aboard for 1 person... easy.

I would think hard about open water adventure with an Allmand. That keel is NOT some hybrid between a full keel and fin keel. It's a shoal keel and has it's pros and cons. One con of which I am familiar with, is it's rolling moment. The shoal keel doesn't do much to help stop rolling motions once it gets started. It was made to be a coastal cruiser where by it can duck into a shallow water anchorage. But yes, on a nice day an 18' day sailer can handle open water.

The engine is a Universal M30. It is still wired with the ammeter and I'll guess all the poor factory "trailer plug style" engine harnesses, which are a fire hazard, (the ammeter needs to be removed and the wiring harness plugs taken out). There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the Universal, so long as it has been maintained, (I have the 5424, basically the same engine).

From the pics, it doesn't look bad. The Allmand is a solid boat (overbuilt a tad by todays standards), might not be the fastest in the crowd. Let me know if you have any questions.

Dave

 

[patrickrea]

I like the layout below decks. Having the head and galley centrally located makes a lot of sense to me.

I'm pretty immune to boat motion. I got seasick once (back in like 1975) on a powerboat but since then nothing. I like having a shoal draft keel. My last boat at 30' had a draft of 5'3" and was a nightmare getting in and out of Toronto Island Marina. Nothing says adventure like touching bottom 3 inches (not feet) from the dock when I was delivering her to her new owner.

She must be a tough boat if you sail one in the WA area. Not exactly know for calm conditions.

 

[SVTatia]

...I would trust my surveyor more. He surveyed my last boat for insurance purposes and I know a bunch of other people who have used him as well with excellent results. I would check his travel rates first.

Patrick, off topic, but I am looking for a surveyor (insurance needs), would you mind sharing his name? PM me if you want.
Thanks

 

[patrickrea]

SVTatia
His name is Wallace Gouk and he's actually on here as Boatpoker. Here's all the contact info.
Port Credit Marine Surveys, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
www.pcmarinesurveys.com/
[email protected] or 416-526-3845