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the pointy end is the bow
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I've been thinking about an alternative way to attach ourselves to the boat. I'm familiar with the standard way, a tether with a quick release hook attached to the D-rings of the harness, the other hook attached to an anchor point or jackline. I don't like the idea of the lower safety hook rattling around at the anchor point or rattling up and down the deck on the jackline.

I've been thinking of permanently attaching the quick release hook to one of the harness D-rings with a short length of line through the eye, leaving the quick release part hanging free. I would make up another length of line tied to the anchor point or jackline with a loop at the bitter end. When its time to clip in, I would thread the quick release hook through the other D-Ring, then clip into the loop at the end of the tether line. It would do away with the second hook rattling around the the deck and it would be a fraction of the cost of store bought tethers. Just thought I would throw it out there to see if someone has already tried something like this and discovered it just doesn't work.
 

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Courtney the Dancer
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Erps- so if I understand it correctly you would have a line, or you could use webbing, with a loop spliced into each end permanently looped around the the jackline. When you want to hook in just grab the other end loop and hook into the quick release. Seems pretty simple, you would have to have as many as necessary for the amount of crew you anticipate on each jackline or attachment place. You would probably want some kind of chafe guard on the one at the deck to prevent abrasion. Seems like it would work to me, and it eliminates one piece of hardware.
 

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Ignoring Trolls in 2009
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Nearly an Old Salt
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you need a quick release, if you have a dinghy or a RIB try get pulled at 5 knots in an inflated lifejacket, it pulls you under. You need to be able to release it and the ones with two safety hooks are damm near impossible to release under load.

I switched from the second type to the first type after such an experience, theres no point being attached to the boat and drowned.

I would advise against locking carabiners, in my experience they can be difficult to open when the dring is bearing against the moving part.
 

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Telstar 28
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TXLNGHRN—

What if your boat turns turtle... if you don't have a quick release and have gloves on sailing in colder waters... you might not be able to get the tether detached quickly enough. You really do need a quick release on the body side of any safety tether. Anything that can not be released under load is a serious danger.

I understand the arguments for quick release, but something about them scares me. I don't like the thought that what I am using to keep my butt on the boat could potentially get released accidentally. I choose to use locking carabiners Petzl Attache HMS Screwgate Locking Carabiner at REI.com and a personal anchor system Metolius Personal Anchor System at REI.com for my attachment to the jacklines (also climbing grade webbing).

Michael
 

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Telstar 28
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Erps-

While this might work well for you, it would cause you some issues if you have people crewing for you that don't have the same type of harness modification you do. That means you'd be having to supply the harnesses to go with the tethers on your boat, and train the crew how to use them properly.

If it is the rattling that is what bothers you, why don't you just take a short 2-3" section of the outer braid off a piece of 1/2" dacron double braid and use it to cover the majority of the metal on the hooks. That would stop the rattling.

I've been thinking about an alternative way to attach ourselves to the boat. I'm familiar with the standard way, a tether with a quick release hook attached to the D-rings of the harness, the other hook attached to an anchor point or jackline. I don't like the idea of the lower safety hook rattling around at the anchor point or rattling up and down the deck on the jackline.

I've been thinking of permanently attaching the quick release hook to one of the harness D-rings with a short length of line through the eye, leaving the quick release part hanging free. I would make up another length of line tied to the anchor point or jackline with a loop at the bitter end. When its time to clip in, I would thread the quick release hook through the other D-Ring, then clip into the loop at the end of the tether line. It would do away with the second hook rattling around the the deck and it would be a fraction of the cost of store bought tethers. Just thought I would throw it out there to see if someone has already tried something like this and discovered it just doesn't work.
 

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I see a bigger issue to this set up. In really extreme weather you do not ever want to be unhooked while on deck. The usual set up is to have two teathers, on the D rings so you can go from anchor point or jackline to the next anchor point or jackline without ever being unhooked. If you have the rope strop on the jackline, it may not be in the place where you need it. If you add a second strop that you carry with you, it will be twice as long as a normal strop and the strop you are hung on will be double, giving you a lot more stuff to trip over. On my previous boat, I put heatshrink on a twing shackle that used to beat up my deck and topsides and made a lot of noise and the heatshrink helped a lot. You might do a combo of S.D.'s suggestion of a rope cover under heatshrink for more sound attenuation.

Jeff
 

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blue collar cruiser
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I've posted this before on previous harness threads and it mostly gets ignored, but I still believe in it whole-heartedly:

kayak rescue vest

By clipping on off your back you WILL NOT go under or face down while dragging through the water. Clipping on off your chest just seems like asking for trouble. Ever try water skiing and not gotten up or let go of the rope? That's what clipping in off your chest will be like over board. Of course, having your tether short enough to not go into the water is a good idea, but you never know what will happen.
 

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I've posted this before on previous harness threads and it mostly gets ignored, but I still believe in it whole-heartedly:

kayak rescue vest

By clipping on off your back you WILL NOT go under or face down while dragging through the water. Clipping on off your chest just seems like asking for trouble. Ever try water skiing and not gotten up or let go of the rope? That's what clipping in off your chest will be like over board. Of course, having your tether short enough to not go into the water is a good idea, but you never know what will happen.
If I understand what you are saying, I wonder how you can release a tether that clips to your back?
 

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blue collar cruiser
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If I understand what you are saying, I wonder how you can release a tether that clips to your back?

Notice in the photo in the link on the front of the vest is a buckle with a little 3" cord coming out of it. Pull on the cord, the buckle unclasps and the wide webbing pulls out all the way around back and slips easily through the ring on the tether. The buckle does not release itself even under a lot of abuse, until you pull the release cord.

Edit: I just noticed the picture in the link shows the buckle and webbing strap in the frontal picture but in the back the webbing is not in the photo. The webbing goes all the way around the vest and this is how you attach it to the ring on the tether on the back.
 

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Notice in the photo in the link on the front of the vest is a buckle with a little 3" cord coming out of it. Pull on the cord, the buckle unclasps and the wide webbing pulls out all the way around back and slips easily through the ring on the tether. The buckle does not release itself even under a lot of abuse, until you pull the release cord.
Ok, I see that now. It might work for inland sailing but not the type of vest I would want to be wearing if I went over in big water.
 

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the pointy end is the bow
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Discussion Starter #13
so if I understand it correctly you would have a line, or you could use webbing, with a loop spliced into each end permanently looped around the the jackline. When you want to hook in just grab the other end loop and hook into the quick release.
Yes, that's what I was thinking. I was thinking of maybe using Amsteel line as tethers all over the place. Small, light, abrasion resistant and strong. Could have it in bulk on the boat and make up as many as one would want and replace them when they start getting fuzzy.

I see a bigger issue to this set up. In really extreme weather you do not ever want to be unhooked while on deck. The usual set up is to have two teathers, on the D rings so you can go from anchor point or jackline to the next anchor point or jackline without ever being unhooked.
Good point. I hadn't thought of that.

While this might work well for you, it would cause you some issues if you have people crewing for you that don't have the same type of harness modification you do.
Hadn't thought of that either.


Thanks for the feed back guys.
 

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Ignoring Trolls in 2009
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TXLNGHRN—

What if your boat turns turtle... if you don't have a quick release and have gloves on sailing in colder waters... you might not be able to get the tether detached quickly enough. You really do need a quick release on the body side of any safety tether. Anything that can not be released under load is a serious danger.
Thanks for the feedback SD, I will have to give this system some more thought and perhaps some trial runs. I was thinking that if the carabiner gets put under load it should go onto the long axis allowing me to open the gate and slide the tether or the d-rings on my vest out. Perhaps I'll hang myself from the mast and give it a try. :confused: Great sailing weather still here but a little cool to be dragged behind the boat.

Michael
 

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Telstar 28
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There is a reason the current tethers and harnesses are designed the way they are... they weren't developed in a vacuum.... but in real-world conditions, and to maximize safety and usability. If you guys can come up with something truly novel that is as easy to use and as safe, you might make a mint... but I don't see it happening any time soon. :)
 

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blue collar cruiser
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There is a reason the current tethers and harnesses are designed the way they are... they weren't developed in a vacuum.... but in real-world conditions, and to maximize safety and usability. If you guys can come up with something truly novel that is as easy to use and as safe, you might make a mint... but I don't see it happening any time soon. :)
Yes, obviously. I can't figure out why they insist on buckles on the front though. Why is this?
 

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the pointy end is the bow
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Discussion Starter #17
There is a reason the current tethers and harnesses are designed the way they are... they weren't developed in a vacuum.... but in real-world conditions, and to maximize safety and usability. I
and product liability and profit margins and marketing appeal.
 

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Courtney the Dancer
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To solve the problem of transferring from one point to another without ever being unhooked you could have two quick releases attached to the harness, hook onto the new one and then release from the other. Requires two QR's though.
 

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So i have to think ;)


How people get saved from going overboard buy the harness compared to going down with the ship because of the harness
 

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Telstar 28
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It is hard to claw your way up the tether to the boat, if the tether is clipped to your back. :)
Yes, obviously. I can't figure out why they insist on buckles on the front though. Why is this?
 
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