[engineer_sailor]

Just bit the bullet and bought a Manson Supreme 25, super excited.

Realized recent we've been anchoring "wrong" on our Cat 27 Tall Rig by just tying off the nylon road to one of the bow cleats. Note: no windlass involved here

We should really have a bridle attaching the rode to *both* bow cleats and underneath the bow spirit. Lots of upside including to chafe or load onto stanchion, able to fully close anchor locker, security of two bow cleats. Currently have 30 ft of chain and will be adding 20-30 so we can generally use just the chain. Usually anchor in 10 feet or less on the Chesapeake.

Looking at bridles I've been seeing the chain grab hooks and noting their lack of locking or gate element. Without another attachment point, I can imagine someone leaving their boat anchored attached only by an open grab hook.

Is there an easy to attach caribeener-like grab hook that has a gate? Does one just use a U-shaped shackle? I've seen the Mantus with plastic gate but I'm not convinced.

Not to confuse the question but if I kept a second bridle for attaching to the nylon rode is it just a free line end where one ties a Prussic or Icicle hitch?

Josh

 

[smurphny]

Last year I started using an Amsteel soft shackle for the snubber attachment and will never go back to a grab hook. Grab hooks almost invariably fall off when the line becomes slack at current changes. Just thread the shackle through a chain link. If you lead the snubber line in through the roller, the whole thing will travel back out through the roller and transfer the load to the snubber line which can then be adjusted.

 

[HUGOSALT]

Same as smurphny I use soft shackle to attach snubber also leading snubber thru
roller. Sometimes will offset snubber as my 30' mono
loves to sail at anchor and offset rode "sometimes" helps.

 

[svHyLyte]

Just bit the bullet and bought a Manson Supreme 25, super excited.

Realized recent we've been anchoring "wrong" on our Cat 27 Tall Rig by just tying off the nylon road to one of the bow cleats. Note: no windlass involved here

We should really have a bridle attaching the rode to *both* bow cleats and underneath the bow spirit. Lots of upside including to chafe or load onto stanchion, able to fully close anchor locker, security of two bow cleats. Currently have 30 ft of chain and will be adding 20-30 so we can generally use just the chain. Usually anchor in 10 feet or less on the Chesapeake.

Looking at bridles I've been seeing the chain grab hooks and noting their lack of locking or gate element. Without another attachment point, I can imagine someone leaving their boat anchored attached only by an open grab hook.

Is there an easy to attach caribeener-like grab hook that has a gate? Does one just use a U-shaped shackle? I've seen the Mantus with plastic gate but I'm not convinced.

Josh

In the case of all chain rode, one normally attaches one's chain hook to the road and then lets out a sizable loop of chain between the point the hook attaches and the bow when the bridle sides are fully extended. The weight of the chain-loop acts something in the manner of a kellet (aka Anchor Sentinal), reducing shock loading on the chain. The weight also holds the hook firmly in place as it is never "unloaded". Never the less, if you want a positive lock on the hook, there are connectors with gates or locking pins. The one you found and another such as:

The hook above can be found at (click on) Defender Chain Hooks

Not to confuse the question but if I kept a second bridle for attaching to the nylon rode is it just a free line end where one ties a Prussic or Icicle hitch?

Yes. You can create a "bridle" arrangement by simply attaching a length of line to you rope rode as you describe or with a rolling hitch and leading that back to your second cleat while an equal length of the rode itself is lead back to the boat from the point of attachment to the opposing cleat. Alternately, you could use a Dyneema "loop" secured to the anchor rode in the manner of a "cow hitch" to which you simply secure your chain bridle in the following manner:

You can obtain such a loop at (click on) Defender Dyneema Loop

FWIW...

PS: I have been using a common, ungated, chain hook on anchor rode for nearly 50 years and have never had one free itself from the chain. In fact, sometimes you have to work at getting the darned things to let go.

 

[MastUndSchotbruch]

J

I've seen the Mantus with plastic gate but I'm not convinced.

Josh

Not sure what hook looked at but the Mantus hook I bought does not have a plastic gate. Or any gate for the matter. It 'locks' into the chain by its shape, you have to turn the chain by 90deg to unhook it.

It is a very nice piece of equipment (I bought the stainless version since I got it at a good price) and I can't imagine it coming off the chain by itself. Even the standard chain hook I used previously (Home Depot Special) never came off. Of course, I always put a good-sized loop of chain behind it.

 

[pdqaltair]

... I've seen the Mantus with plastic gate but I'm not convinced.

Regarding the plastic lock, I started with a computer printed prototype and now use the production model. Since there is no stress on the lock, it works fine and is easy one-handed. It is just to jiggle-proof the hook. I believe they will give hooks to previous purchasers. Without the gate the hook can still release if lying on the bottom in light conditions in shallow water. (testing for magazine--no connection with company)

That said, I've used slings and soft shackles and like them too. They don't chafe if kept off the bottom, and they are easier to attach through the rollers. I like the hook because on a cat it is a fast one-hand job.

And Josh, if you are new to the Chesapeake, scan my blog (listed below). Lots of local info.

Also this for kayaking and small places.
http://theotherchesapeake.blogspot.com/

 

[RichH]

Ive been using the standard chain hook on bridle system on a mono-hull for the past 15 years. To prevent the hook from disengaging from the chain I simply wrap the bridle lead a few times around the chain, the friction of the wrap keeps the hook engaged.
Engage the hook to chain, put in 3 wraps of both ends of the bridle and lead each to its 'chock' behind the bow; such can slightly chafe the bridle over long periods but most times the twist of the bridle because of the wrapping will straighten out when under severe load and no chafe occurs.
That Mantus hook looks VERY interesting, an improvement over 'wrapping'.

 

[killarney_sailor]

I just use a chain hook. Not had a problem with it falling off that I can think of. As someone else said, the weight of the chain alone keeps the snubber bridle snug.

 

[TQA]

I use a simple grab hook on a single nylon line cleated off at 9 ft. Chain gets run out on the windlass until 10 ft to go. Clip on hook keeping a little tension on the line and run out the last 10 ft of chain. The line goes over the same bow roller as the chain so I do get some additional chafe there. I have just replace my admittedly slightly oversize line after 6 years.

I have used a bridle but find I get more creaking in the forepeak running two line through two fairleads on my current boat than the single line over the roller.

In 13 years of living on the hook I have never had the chain come off the hook.

I would absolutely avoid using any claw type device with a locking latch unless it can be cut off with a knife. At 2 in the morning with a 40 knot squall and a dragging anchor I don't want to be trying to hacksaw off the latch. I have seen two or three such devices which had to sawn off. The problems being corrosion and or distortion.

A rope with a simple rolling hitch is a good alternative but the knot can tighten up. Be prepared to take the bread knife to it.

 

[tdw]

I'm with Killarney and Hylyte in that after all these years I've also never had a chain hook disengage once set.

I see some mention of disengaging when lying on the bottom. That raises and interesting question .... how far below the surface do you set you chain hook ? We certainly do not have the bridle long enough for it ever to touch bottom. We'd be well aground before it did.

 

[smurphny]

In the case of all chain rode, one normally attaches one's chain hook to the road and then lets out a sizable loop of chain between the point the hook attaches and the bow when the bridle sides are fully extended. The weight of the chain-loop acts something in the manner of a kellet (aka Anchor Sentinal), reducing shock loading on the chain. The weight also holds the hook firmly in place as it is never "unloaded". Never the less, if you want a positive lock on the hook, there are connectors with gates or locking pins. The one you found and another such as:

The hook above can be found at (click on) Defender Chain Hooks

.

Yes. You can create a "bridle" arrangement by simply attaching a length of line to you rope rode as you describe or with a rolling hitch and leading that back to your second cleat while an equal length of the rode itself is lead back to the boat from the point of attachment to the opposing cleat. Alternately, you could use a Dyneema "loop" secured to the anchor rode in the manner of a "cow hitch" to which you simply secure your chain bridle in the following manner:

You can obtain such a loop at (click on) Defender Dyneema Loop

FWIW...

PS: I have been using a common, ungated, chain hook on anchor rode for nearly 50 years and have never had one free itself from the chain. In fact, sometimes you have to work at getting the darned things to let go.

I like the Dyneema loop. It eliminates the diamond knot of the soft shackle

I have had a grab hook fall off quite a number of times but it was a standard 3/8" grab hook not one of those deep throated hooks as pictured here.

 

[engineer_sailor]

Thanks for all the advice. Without a windlass, if the hook falls off, the boat is unanchored.

Leaning towards the Mantus hook with latch

Josh

 

[Alex W]

Thanks for all the advice. Without a windlass, if the hook falls off, the boat is unanchored.

Can't you put a couple of feet of slack in the anchor rode, then tie it off to your other bow cleat? If the snubber breaks or the hook falls off the anchor rode will be tied to your bow cleat, as it used to be.

Maybe I'm mis-understanding how the snubber is used, I always have just tied my anchor rode off to a single bow cleat.

 

[svHyLyte]

Thanks for all the advice. Without a windlass, if the hook falls off, the boat is unanchored.

Leaning towards the Mantus hook with latch

Josh

Josh--

We seem to have a failure to communicate. Firstly, to clear up an obvious misconception, one's windlass is never the "fast point" for anchoring. That's not it's function. It is there merely to retrieve, and perhaps pay out, one's anchor rode and is typically sized for the weight of one's ground tackle hanging freely off the bow roller given the maximum depth one might normally anchor in. Once deployed, the anchor rode is secured to one's "fast point" be that bow cleats, a Sampson post, or what have you. In the case of chain rode, the chain should pass through a Chain Stopper, e.g.:

...which one should have (if ever using chain rode) regardless of whether one has a windlass or not. From your comment I take it you do not but you should. You boat is small and light (relatively speaking) so there are any number of relatively inexpensive Chain Stoppers that would work for you (see Defender Chain Stoppers for example).

With one's chain rode "hooked" to one's bridle, one lets out a goodly bight of chain, perhaps 20 feet if one's bridle legs are 12 feet long, and then "locks" one's chain down in the Stopper. Even if both legs of one's bridle "gave up the ghost", an extremely unlikely event given your venue, the boat is still held by the chain. The Chain Stopper is also an advantage when one is retrieving rode by hand as one can pull one's chain inboard, through it, but it will lock down and prevent the chain paying back out once you take the tension off the chain to get the next hand-hold or simply take a breath.

Moreover, in conjunction with one's bridle, the Stopper would allow you to use a halyard or deck winch as a windlass if necessary or desired. One merely attaches the chain hook to the chain just inboard of the Stopper and leads one leg of the bridle to the winch; cranks away, hauling in the rode. When one's hauled in as much rode as one likes in this manner, one frees the bridle leg from the winch, which slacks causing the Stopper to lock down and hold the chain while one strolls forward, resets the hook again behind the Stopper, and repeats. On our former boat, a 1976 Cal 2-29, we used our main halyard winch, coupled with a 25 foot 1/2" dia 3-strand, double legged, bridle as our defacto windlass for many, many years without any difficulty.

FWIW...

 

[zz4gta]

I'm a Wichard dealer. The hooks are nice and the pin keeps the chain from popping off. Shoot me a PM if interested in picking one up, I can probably beat defenders price for sailnet members.

 

[smurphny]

Thanks for all the advice. Without a windlass, if the hook falls off, the boat is unanchored.

Leaning towards the Mantus hook with latch

Josh

I don't have a windlass either. What I do is pay the chain out over the bow roller and wait until I'm satisfied I have the anchor set and the right amount of scope. I then wrap the chain around the big bow cleat and thru bolt it . That secures the chain. I then thread the snubber line back through the roller frame (has a s.s. bail loop) so the spliced loop at the end of the snubber is ready to attach to the chain. Then I pull in enough chain, around 12-15', to attach the snubber to the chain with a soft shackle. The chain and snubber then goes out through the roller and can be stopped by the snubber line which I try to set at around 10' or so. At that point, the snubber line is lead through the old bow chock to a second cleat to completely transfer the load to the snubber. Using a long 3 strand snubber does a good job of eliminating shock. Even if the snubber line were to break, the chain is still secured to the cleat.

 

[engineer_sailor]

HyLyte

I was unaware of the chain stopper, have never actually seen one of those bit makes sense. Might consider installing one. Thanks for the insight. I always assumed the windlass was a major attach point.

Josh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[svHyLyte]

HyLyte

I was unaware of the chain stopper, have never actually seen one of those bit makes sense. Might consider installing one. Thanks for the insight. I always assumed the windlass was a major attach point.

Josh

Windline Chain stopper fitted to a yacht without a windlass: