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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm the new owner of hull #234, a beautiful PSC 37, 1990. I've had possession for over a month and am working through the systems and taking it out sailing learning how it handles etc.

There is one thing that I would like to adjust on the boat regarding how the chain falls from the manual windlass into the chain locker. The locker is split into two sides. The smaller port side is for a shorter mostly line rode, while the starboard side of the locker is 1/2 of the forward split and it extends aft to occupy the enter chain locker. The line side is roughly 1/4 the whole volume, the larger starboard side occupies 3/4. I have a 300' 5/16th chain rode. The problem is that as the chain falls from the windlass, it does not fall back into the end of the locker. It piles up below the windlass until it eventually piles up blocking the windlass. If I raise some of the rode, then head below to flake the chain, return to raise more chain, flake below etc it works. But that's a little tedious.

I was wondering if anybody on the forum had the same problem, and if so, how they solved it?

I'm loving this boat and am looking forward to many years and miles in the future!


Craig,
Luckness,
PSC 37, #234.
 

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We have the same problem with our 200' of 3/8" chain. All we do is stick the lever for the manual windlass down the chain hole and kind of lever the chain out of the way until the mountain of chain in the locker collapses - then go back to winching it in... It's quite easy to knock the chain down this way.

Enjoy your new boat! Congratulations!

Bill
s/v Toodle-oo!
PSC 37 #148
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I love this solution, it sounds simple and robust. I'll give it a try when I'm raising anchor this weekend! Thanks!

I'm happy to hear there are other manual windlass users out there. Just after buying the boat I was considering installing an electric windlass. The manual seems to be fine so far, a little exercise is a good thing. The manual seems robust, easy to maintain, simple. The windlass is rated for 1200lbs, my rode and anchor are 350. I've only anchored twice with this boat so far, both in close to dead calm conditions. Bill - has your experience with the manual windlass been positive? Are you planning on continuing with it or would you prefer to have an electric on board? If anybody else has an opinion on manual vs. electric, I'd love to hear them.


Craig,
s/v Luckness,
PSC 37 #234.
 

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Craig,

I have no intention of changing to an electric windlass - we both like what we have. It's perhaps a little more challenging for us, since we put a 60# Manson Supreme anchor (I know, total overkill - but I sleep soundly at night!) on the end and when it digs in it can be an sob to pull out. Even so, the manual gives us great feel for what's hapening down below and out of sight. When it's firmly planted, we go to the low gear side and just keep pulling - it always comes free - so far - touch wood!

Bill
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Bill. I have a Rocna 20 (44lbs) and lighter chain than your 3/8" so it sounds like I would need to be a wimp to buy an electric windlass at this point :)

I'll keep going with this equipment and setup. Thanks for your help.


Craig,
s/v Luckness,
PSC 37, #234,
Seattle, WA.
 

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Dear Craig, Like you I also seriously flirted with a couple of electric windlasses, especially because the original Muir Manual needed a serious overhaul when we got the boat this past winter. Eventually I decided to stay with the "keep it simple" mantra and so far am glad of it. We are just back from 3 1/2 weeks cruising the coast of Maine, during which we anchored all but three nights using our Manson 35 with 60' 3/8" chain and 250' 5/8 Brait. We usually anchor going downwind about 1.5 to 2 knots. We then cleat the line at the appropriate length for the depth and when the boat rounds up smartly we know the anchor is well and truly dug in! It set perfectly every time but often came up up with an additional 10 to 15 lbs of mud! The windlass gives great feedback. I always know when we are about to break out (handy information for the person at the helm). If I'm patient the boat then does the breaking out and then I crank in the remaining bits as quickly as I can.

Like you and Bill, our chain tends to pile up beneath the hawse pipe. I'm going to try Bill's solution though our hawse pipe is so small that the windlass handle will not fit so I'll have to rig a fiberglass wand for the task.

So, all told, I'm staying with the manual windlass for the foreseeable future. I love that we don't need the engine to get the anchor up and think that sailing it out keeps our skills sharp(er).

Happy sailing, Jay

PSC 37 3 171, Kenlanu
Buck's Harbor, Maine
 

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Ditto on using a manual windlass. Our 34 deploys a Rocna 15 with an all chain rode. When retrieving, we just motor up easy as the chain is cranked aboard using our standard S/L unit. Then let the weight of the boat break the anchor out of the bottom and retrieve. Even with an electric unit, I think it's still necessary to motor up as the rode is winched aboard to avoid over loading the unit and popping the circuit breaker.

John S.
PSC 34 # 201
"Norstar"
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks Jay and John. The manual windlass is working out well for me so far, and I do like the fact that I don't need to rely on electronics or running the engine when I pull the anchor up. I haven't considered anchoring downwind but can see the attraction, and with my all chain rode I have less to worry about running over the rode than Jay would.

I've tried Bill's solution with using the windlass handle to push the rode back into a deeper part of the chain locker. That windlass handle didn't work for me as the handle wasn't long enough and was too wide to fit into the chain pipe hole. But using the same idea I bought a length of thin pipe that I can stick into the secondary chain pipe to the port of the windlass. From that angle, I can knock down the building pile and push it back a little. With that setup, I was able to bring up the whole 300' of chain without having to run below and distribute the chain. Sweet! The pile isn't ideal, I can't push the chain back far enough in the locker from the deck as the angles don't work out - the pipe ends up hitting the locker wall which is quite forward of the end of the locker. Now that I know this works, I'll try to find a solid stainless pipe to use. Fiberglass may not be strong enough, I end up pushing with quite a lot of force to push the chain back.

I'm also considering cutting the chain locker divider out to make the locker hold only one rode. I went down to the Seacraft Yacht Sales docks here in Seattle a few days ago to look at their three 37's. Each of them had a different anchor locker setup. One was divided full length front to back into two equal halves. One was divided in half port-starboard, which would make flaking the chain manually difficult from the deck. One had my setup where the division is unequal, about 3/4 and 1/4. The last boat also had a manual muir and when I looked below, it had a tall pile of chain below the windlass with no chain in the back of the locker.

With my setup the 1/4 sized locker isn't large enough to hold a serious amount of rode. The boat came with 80' 3-strand in that locker, and its about 2/3 full. If I needed the second rode in storm conditions to set a second anchor, there wouldn't be enough in there to be worthwhile. If I lost my primary rode, the secondary wouldn't be able to replace it. I'm considering installing a longer rode in my stern locker - and if needed, I could bring it forward to set off the bow. If my bow locker was one large space, the chain should come off the windlass beautifully.

Does anybody have any thoughts on making the anchor locker into a single space?
 

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bill norrie
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thanks guys , cathy and I are also new to our S/V Lively lady , PSC 37 #231 as of january and looking to upgrade our ground tackle ( thinking of a 45 lb CQR or Bruce with 300 ft, 5/16 high tensile chain to fit current Gypsy and worry about the relative (smallish and forward) chain locker. Thoughts out there ? Bill S/V LL , PSC#231
 

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If you're going to add a new anchor, I'd REALLY recommend going with a new generation anchor rather than CQR or Bruce. (I know, dangerous subject matter!)
I have a Manson Supreme, knock off of the Rockna and I think the Spade is also very good.
Since replacing my 45# CQR with the Mason Supreme, I have never dragged, and it almost always grabs immediately making setting a doddle. Granted mine is way oversize - If I had it to do again, I'd go with a 45# Rockna rather than the 60# MS I have - but I sleep at night without worry.
The 60# MS fits the standard roller.

(FWIW)

Bill

Toodle-oo!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This could hijack the thread completely, but also also decided on a Rocna anchor and have loved it. This is with 300' 5/16th HT as well. I have the 20kg, 44lb Rocna. It fits well on the boat, although having two anchors hang off the bow would be a real challenge now.

As for the anchor locker size - the chain fits nicely into the locker as long as you are able to get the chain back into the large and deep volume at the base of the locker. I continue to have a problem with the anchor rode piling against the internal dividing wall where the chain falls from the windlass. Other lockers may be organized differently than mine is internally.

My tentative plan to modify the locker into one large volume rather than 2 smaller ones is still on. I don't want to have to leave the bow and drag chain down in the locker at a critical time when raising the anchor. This wouldn't happen until the late october time frame. If anybody has an opinion on that, please let me know. With the locker being one volume, I hope that chain piling would no longer be a problem at all - no internal wall for the pile to lean against. The cost is that the locker would no longer hold two rodes. The stern rode could be brought forward if I needed to set two anchors off the bow, or at least that's my thinking.

I wouldn't let my problem with the rode piling up influence your decision to buy 300' 5/16th HT. I believe its a good choice.


s/v Luckness,
PSC 37, #234,
Seattle, WA.
 

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As long as you are hijacking your own thread.... I have to agree that the new generation anchors (Rocna, Manson Supreme, original Bruce) are the way to go. The CQR was a massive improvement over the anchors that preceeded it and hence its loyal following. But if you think for a second about the difference between a concave and convex shaped anchor you will immediately see the advantages of the latter -- it tends to compress the material in front of it rather than "plowing" through it by decompressing the "soil."

To date (one rather short and rainy season) our anchoring has been only in protected waters where our 35 lb Manson Supreme has held perfectly in winds up to 25 knots but no seas. On our previous boat the old, original Bruce also held every single time we set it in 5 years of continuous summer use. I hear the new versions are not as good but have no personal experience. In general, I think the new anchors are an evolutionary advancement.

As for the anchor chain piling up, this is a SERIOUS safety concern when you simply must get the anchor up immediately without the "demented poodle" routine of running back and forth. Has anyone tried simply directing the chain slightly off to one side with, perhaps, a 45 degree pvc elbow?

Jay, PSC 37, Kenlanu
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Back to the anchor locker...

I don't know if you recall the geometry of the anchor locker on the 37? The locker is V shaped following the hull, shallow in front deeper in back. This area has a port-starboard wall separating the locker from the aft berth about 2 feet forward of the back anchor wall and up to the deck. The chain falls just in front of this wall and then it should move back into the deepest widest part of the locker at the locker base. There is also a dividing wall in the locker along the base of the V, which as you look at it goes from the forward point along the base of the V, back to the port-starboard berth wall, and then port to the side. This smaller locker space is roughly 1/4 of the whole space. Sorry, no pictures... With that...

I bought some PVC pipe and a couple of elbow's. However after looking closer at the locker, I abandoned that attempt. The problem is that I want the rode to pile up in the bottom aft of the locker, and to get it there would require a flat run for the chain from where it falls, into an elbow back into the locker. This would reduce the height of the fall by more than 1/2 - making it much easier for the chain to now pile in its new location. Pulling it up may also be problematic?

The manual for my windlass recommends strongly that the anchor rode not fall into the locker beside a wall, as it will pile into a cone. This is exactly the configuration I have, and it is piling. Redirecting the chain 1/2 way down its fall to angle further back seems like it would change the problem, not solve it. The solution seems to be to remove the internal wall and let the rode fall in a large space, falling back into the wide deep part of the locker.

I agree on the safety issue aspect. I'd like to solve this in a way that its no longer an issue...
 

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bill norrie
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Hi PSC37 everyone, This is Bill s/v LL psc 37 #231.
STILL working with ground tackle question. Thoughts and comments, gentlemen please?
#1 is 3/8 chain over kill and is there room below for 300ft vs 5/16 ?
#2 still like 45 lb Bruce and 60 Genuine CQR as our two bowers and 35 Bruce and 24 Danforth for kedges with two 300 ft 5/8 nylon with 60 /100ft 5/16 chain as second and backup rodes stored amidships bilge. Please comment and tell your solutions, thanking you .
Yours ,
Bill and Cathy s/v LL psc37 #231
 

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Hi PSC37 everyone, This is Bill s/v LL psc 37 #231.
STILL working with ground tackle question. Thoughts and comments, gentlemen please?
#1 is 3/8 chain over kill and is there room below for 300ft vs 5/16 ?
#2 still like 45 lb Bruce and 60 Genuine CQR as our two bowers and 35 Bruce and 24 Danforth for kedges with two 300 ft 5/8 nylon with 60 /100ft 5/16 chain as second and backup rodes stored amidships bilge. Please comment and tell your solutions, thanking you .
Yours ,
Bill and Cathy s/v LL psc37 #231
#1 300' is overkill, assuming 5:1 ratio and 4' bow height, you have
to be in 56' of water to use the whole rode. I think 150' (all chain in 26')
would cover 99% of your anchoring. (I'm on the SE coast, your crusing
area may be different)
#2 I think delta is better than CQR because it has a larger flukes for
a given weight and is less likely to turn on its side
I think fortress is best choice for ketch, easy to store, and lighter
than standard danforth.
Tom
 

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bill norrie
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ground tackle

Dear Tom, thanks for your thoughts , I like the 300 ft rode all chain as a back up and plan to end for end it after a year or so in the south pacific and also think 7:1 in exposed sites is common. Delta good choice as well and we have a fortress as a 5th anchor as you suggest. But does the PSC 37 have room in the chain locker and balance overall with that amo8unt of weight in the extreme bow?
Cheers, Bill s/v LL psc37 #231
 

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Having two anchors on the bow is worth while if you're living on the hook and traveling. We have a 34' and use a 35lb Delta on 200ft of 5/16"HT and 150ft of 5/8" brait. On several occasions, when the winds got into the 40-50kn range, we've had to deploy a second anchor, a 35lb Manson Ray (Bruce-like) on 80ft of 5/16"HT and 250ft of 5/8" brait. We also keep a large Fortress in the locker and have used it in poor holding conditions (replacing the Ray). We keep a small Fortress on the stern rail and have deployed it as an emergency brake or a quick-set kedge.
We've had the opportunity to watch countless boats anchor. Most anchor quickly and quite a few drag. We've learned to take our time, flaking out chain slowly and letting the anchor settle slowly. We believe good anchoring technique is as important as a good anchor.

Stay safe,
Sam
s/v Grace PSC34#163
 

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bill norrie
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PSC ground tackle

dear Sam, thanks for your reply. all sounds good . However does your 200 ft of 5/16 chain stack in the locker and come out easily ? which windlass do you have please ? Horizontal , to givemore room below to stack?
Yours , Bill PSC 37 # 231
 

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Bill - The chain on our vertical Muir usually feeds without jamming but does require some serious tugs on rare occasion. On retrieval it will pile up too high once in a while - I just use the handle end of a boat pole to tamp it down. If I'm bringing in a lot of chain I tend to use the pole as a preventative measure.
I'm not sure if a horizontal windlass would be any less prone to piling.
Sam
s/v Grace PSC34#163
 
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