SailNet Community banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey everyone, you may remember me from last year around this time....My buddy and I bought a Bristol 26 in Stamford Connecticut (Long Island Sound) and sailed it up the Hudson to the Poughkeepsie area. We had a blast sailing last year and are ready to go this spring.

One of the things we didn't do last year was spend the night out at anchor somewhere. We generally sail the Hudson river from Cold Spring to Kingston and there certainly seem to be places that would be good for anchoring out overnight. Of course, we still get tides this far north and the river does indeed flow in both directions (not at the same time, usually.....).

What special advice is there for anchoring out in such conditions? The first time we try it, we will be making sure that it is a calm night with good weather, so as not to complicate things.

We currently have 2 anchors, one is a good sized danforth style with about 30 feet of chain and 150feet or so of nylon. This anchor I have alot of confidence in, as it kept us anchored for hours one afternoon in very heavy winds and waves....more as an experiment, to see if it would hold; and it did. Our other anchor is so far untested, it is a plow style I believe...with a joint between the plow and the "shank" if you will. Getting another anchor probably wouldn't be a huge deal.

Here on the Hudson River the bottom almost always seems to be a grayish muddy/silty goop, and sometimes seems more "clayier" than "goopy". Also sometimes there are weeds in the shallower areas where we would probably anchor.

The boat itself draws about 3 feet, it is the swing keel version. Its big and heavy and kinda slow, but we like it alot. First boat ever...and we got a fantastic deal on it...loving every second of it, just want to keep doing new things on it, like anchor out overnight...so we know we can do it.

What techniques are there for anchoring in a tidal river where the boat would have a tendency to switch between two specific directions, depending on the tides? I'm all ears....as up until now, we have only anchored for 6-8 hours at the longest.

-Marty

p.s. Thank you all for the advice that I've picked up just from reading the various posts on this forum....alot of you are really great!
 

·
Tartan 27' owner
Joined
·
5,242 Posts
Mary,
I have only done over night stays on the Hudson tied up in a slip at a Marina. We keep our boat old Tartan 27, which sounds pretty similar to your Bristol 26 (nice boat by the way), on a mooring at Nyack, NY.
You highlighted one of the reasons we generally do not anchor out overnight which is the reversing current in the river. There are also not many appropriate bays in our section of the River except by Croton Point which forms a kind of a protective area from the current and is popular with motor boats and cruising sailboats alike in the summer. It looks like Cold Spring may offer similar protection for you.
There are many on this forum with more anchoring experience then me but will offer what limited insight I may be able to shed on the subject.
1) It is good to have 2 anchors. Some people use one anchor for the bow and another for the stern. This can stop the boat from 'sailing' at anchor which can be annoying while trying to sleep. Other folks form a bridle out of both anchors (one up river (up current) and the other down river) so at least one anchor will hold when the current changes. I have no experience in this and will let others comment as to its ease of setting up and effectiveness. There is a lot of info on the web and various blogs about anchoring techniques.
2) Keep an anchor watch. Know when the current will start to change direction. If it is at all similar to our part of the river it happens pretty quickly. Here is a tide table for Kingston: Tide Tables
Keep in mind that the time of high tide is not when the current begins to flow back down the river. There can be a significant delay between high tide and the beginning of the ebb current. It would be nice to have your 2nd anchor handy if you discover that your primary anchor is dragging in the middle of the night.
3) stay out of the channel that the tugs, barges and commercial traffic use.
4) have an anchor light visible to other boaters on deck
5) tugs use VHF ch. 13 to talk to each other
6) have a blast. Sounds like fun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
452 Posts
I wouldn't worry about dragging an anchor in clay. Danfort will work for sure. If there is a strong bed of grass, CQR (your second anchor) probably sets better.

If you can find protected cove, I wouldn't worry about tides either, just let enougth scope for changing depths and make sure you have enougth swinging room. Make sure your anchor is set - back up at full trottle for a while.
It takes time to become confident in anchoring, probably you are not going sleep well first night anyway.

On my first few nights out I often had set two anchors to make sure I stay in place, however time and effforts I put in anchoring contracted substantionally with expirience.

GPS function called "Anchor drag" is very helpfull for good night sleep, just don't set a radious too short.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
I spent considerable time cruising the Hudson from my home port of Catskill. A lot of that time was spent anchored out.

I never set more than one anchor (a Bruce), even though the tide would change directions during the night. The bottom conditions were perfect for anchoring and allowed the anchor to dig in deeply with very little effort. If for some reason the anchor did pull free, it would quickly re-set itself in the mud. Although I loved my Bruce, a properly-sized Danforth should hold quite well for you.

One good anchoring spot which I used several times on my way up and down river, was just below the Bear Mountain Bridge. You can tuck yourself far enough into the bay to be out of the way of any commercial traffic passing by. It's an awfully quiet spot at night and I can't recall it being very buggy.

To me, anchoring out is one the most important reasons to buy a boat in the first place.

Have fun!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
26 Posts
I wouldn't worry about dragging an anchor in clay. Danfort will work for sure. If there is a strong bed of grass, CQR (your second anchor) probably sets better.

x2, the CQR is also an amazing anchor, don't forget about it, and CrazyRu is right, it will not foul as easily as the danforth in weeds. Both should reset easily when the tides turn. In fact, one of my favorite places to anchor has strong tides that rush through the anchorage in alternating directions...it was a little nerve racking the first couple of times but you gain confidence as you go.

and soft clay/sand is probably the best holding bottom you can find, so no worries there either.

Have fun, overnight trips are the best part of boating, don't miss out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
846 Posts
If you have enough swinging area there is no problem if your anchor is holding. But if the swinging area is not enough then it is best to use two anchors. Use the bigger (or better) one to anchor towards the stonger effect. Probably you will use it upwind or up current. Use the second one in the opposite direction. Both warps should be from the head of the boat. The anchors will be approximately 180 degrees from each other. When the current changes from one direction to the other, the boat's head will turn to the new current but the boat will not move too much.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
26 Posts
If you have enough swinging area there is no problem if your anchor is holding. But if the swinging area is not enough then it is best to use two anchors. Use the bigger (or better) one to anchor towards the stonger effect. Probably you will use it upwind or up current. Use the second one in the opposite direction. Both warps should be from the head of the boat. The anchors will be approximately 180 degrees from each other. When the current changes from one direction to the other, the boat's head will turn to the new current but the boat will not move too much.

One thing you might want to watch out for in that situation....if you are near other boats, they may be on a single anchor and could potentially swing down on top of you if you do not move b/c of the 2 anchors. And feel free to ask the boats immediately around you what tackle/scope they have out. Nobody is going to mind you asking, if anything they will be reassured.

It is normal for boats to anchor within each others swing areas, especially when space is limited. this works on the premise that your boat will swing, but that it will do so in the same way the others do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
362 Posts
Marty:
I'd recommend what Celenoglu describes - a Bahamian mooring.

Earl Hinz's book has a lot of great information on anchors and anchoring techniques. Link here.

 

·
Wish I never found SN!
Joined
·
2,116 Posts
I have been stuck in a river unable to get out due to the Bar and some windlass work. If a tidal river that's width or depth does not allow swing room. I would do this. Get as close to the bank as is safe, you will find the current is less there due to friction. Point the bow up stream debris and stronger currants tend to flow down stream. Anchor with your normal bow anchor and from the Stern with your secondary when both are set let out some extra rode on each. The boat should bot be strung tight but allowed to move back and forth between the two. Lash the tiller or wheel so the boat wants to keep towards the bank this will stop sailing at anchor, you will need to play with this to find out what works for your boat. My boat needs to be nearly hard over.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,607 Posts
I think for your situation, moonfish hit it pretty good. Take into consideration what other nearby boats are doing and allow for swing room. You probably don't need to put out 2 anchors if you have the space.

The second anchor you describe is probably a CQR. It should have those letters cast into it. A good anchor BUT it does not set quickly. The SOP is to let it sit for 15 minutes to a half hour and then power back. I dragged on mine in high wind so I've bought a manson. You should use your CQR a few times to get used to it for your situation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thank you all for your replies, I am thinking that I will secure another danforth anchor...maybe a little bigger than the one we have, why not. We'll try the CQR that we have also, but it seems a little on the small side...I will check it out next time I'm at the boat, take a pic perhaps and get some idea on weight.

It sounds like a Bahamian style will be the best for my situation, again, thanks for all your replies and advice. I think we could feel pretty secure if we set two anchors like the one we have, opposite each other. I just can't seem to find confidence in leaving just one danforth style anchor down. As the boat turns back against the tide, it would seem that the boat would be pulling in exactly the WRONG direction for optimal holding power, and probably pull it out.

One of the main concerns that has been expressed in this thread so far is that of "boat swing" and others in the anchorage. One of the things that I've noticed...is that it doesn't seem as if there are every many boats out in any of the seemingly likely anchorages here on the Hudson.

I'm talking mostly between West Point and Kingston. There are a few spots on the East side near Wappingers that seem secluded. Perhaps just to the north of Bannerman Island (Pollipe)? If anyone is familiar with the Hudson River, feel free to chime in.

Sigh.................another two months or so and the "River Cabana" will be back in the water.

Thanks again everyone,

-Marty
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
452 Posts
I'd strongly recommend getting the second anchor of different type. Danforth anchors are good overall, however they are not the best in some conditions, such are in think weeds or on rocks. Some type of plow anchors work best in such conditions. I got myself inexpensive lewmar claw anchor (Bruce a-like from West Marine) and I feel that combination of two – Danforth and Claw – covers any anchoring situation along east coast.
CQR are good anchors, just make sure the size is big enough.
 

·
Telstar 28
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
I would recommend that you look at the next gen anchors rather than something like the Danforth or CQR. The newer designs, like the Rocna, Manson Supreme, Buegel, Spade, etc., are all going to provide more holding power for the same weight and set and reset far more reliably than either a CQR or Danforth.

Danforths are notoriously unreliable in the case of reversing currents and winds. If they pull free, they can often not reset...leaving your boat dragging. A 22 lb. Rocna or Manson would be good enough even in storm conditions for a boat the size of yours.

Thank you all for your replies, I am thinking that I will secure another danforth anchor...maybe a little bigger than the one we have, why not. We'll try the CQR that we have also, but it seems a little on the small side...I will check it out next time I'm at the boat, take a pic perhaps and get some idea on weight.

It sounds like a Bahamian style will be the best for my situation, again, thanks for all your replies and advice. I think we could feel pretty secure if we set two anchors like the one we have, opposite each other. I just can't seem to find confidence in leaving just one danforth style anchor down. As the boat turns back against the tide, it would seem that the boat would be pulling in exactly the WRONG direction for optimal holding power, and probably pull it out.

One of the main concerns that has been expressed in this thread so far is that of "boat swing" and others in the anchorage. One of the things that I've noticed...is that it doesn't seem as if there are every many boats out in any of the seemingly likely anchorages here on the Hudson.

I'm talking mostly between West Point and Kingston. There are a few spots on the East side near Wappingers that seem secluded. Perhaps just to the north of Bannerman Island (Pollipe)? If anyone is familiar with the Hudson River, feel free to chime in.

Sigh.................another two months or so and the "River Cabana" will be back in the water.

Thanks again everyone,

-Marty
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
452 Posts
SailingDog.
Do you believe every advertizing you see in magazine?
Have you ever seen an ad for Danforth anchor? No? You know why? A thing which works don’t need commercial. Screwdriver, for example.
You also forget to mention that new generation of anchors probably cost more than the boat in question.
 

·
Telstar 28
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
CrazyRU-

I have used a Danforth. I've also seen them fail to reset more than a dozen times. The flukes on them can be jammed and prevent them from resetting. They're also relatively light with a lot of surface area and if they pull free they can "kite" along as the boat drags, preventing them from resetting.

I am basing my statements on my experience, not on magazine ads. The OP is talking about a reversing current situation, and for that specific instance, a Danforth is not a good choice.
 

·
Aquaholic
Joined
·
1,139 Posts
In my experience, Danforths make a great lunch hook; but not much else. When I was fishing we used a huge Danforth because it was fairly light, and we could dive on it to make sure it set before commencing operations. I could never sleep on a boat who's primary was a Danforth unless it was in absolutly ideal conditions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,607 Posts
mart
Be aware there are issues with Bahamian moor. The slack rode can hang up on the keel and cause any number of issues. if you swing more than once, you can get the rodes twisted up. And you need to have a decent setup for two anchors to be tied to the bow cleanly
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
ok...which way do you folks think I should go?

You guys are killing me....lol, no seriously, thank you all for your advice.

We will definitely be getting a new anchor and rode, so as that we have two solids and one so far unproven (the CQR type, which we will test out). I have looked at some of the anchor type mentioned, and yeah...some of them do cost quite a bit, (you're pretty close to on the money CrazyRu

What are some of the horrors of a slack rode (in a bahamian mooring) catching on the keel? For the purposes of our own boat, it is a shallow draft (longer, for to aft) with a swing keel tucked up inside, which we have never and do not plan on, lowering. Just thinking about it now, I can see the slack rode getting caught up in the steering part of the keel, which is a seperate piece. Yeah.....(thinking about what that could be like)....that could be pretty bad.

I understand the idea of somehow attaching the two rodes together somewhere down below with a weight or something. I will certainty investigate further.

Sailingdog, I know exactly what you mean about the danforth "skipping" over the bottom, I have felt it when trying to set the anchor. Nevertheless, everytime we have set the anchor to where I feel safe, it's never come out, even in some crazy wind and waves...but definitely no change in direction, which was the original point of the topic.... Thanks for your advice, I will be looking at some of the anchors that you mentioned.

Also, I'm not using a windlass or anything, I'm still young and have figured out the whole sitting down deal and just going slow when pulling up the anchor. I like using powerboat waves to bust loose at the end. You mentioned a 22lb Rocna or Manson, my boat is something in the area of 5500 lbs displacement...when thinking of a new anchor, I was thinking about just buying a 30ft boat appropriate anchor. Just for safety sake. What are your thoughts, anyone else?

Aaaah...the joys of thinking about sailing when its 25 degrees out and the boat cockpit is 5 feet in the air. To those of you out on the Hudson River near Newburgh this summer, we are a Bristol 26...Blue topsides, white deck. Sail #174. Also, there will be a few lunatics onboard....having a blast.

-Marty
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,607 Posts
I didn't mean to imply you should not Bahamian moor. With a shallow draft you'll probably not have a problem. But sometimes stuff happens.

The bigger issue is to figure out how you are going to tie off both. 2 cleats? 1 real big cleat?
If you only anchor thru one tidal swing, you probably won't get much of a twist. But if you stay a while, you'll have a mess on your hands.

Anchoring bow & stern can be done BUT if a cross wind kicks up it can be unpleasant!
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top