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Once known as Hartley18
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Given it's been a little quiet around here lately, I thought I'd ask the question..

I know some anchors work better than others when used with all-rope rode (given plenty of scope, a Danforth's flukes will usually still dig into sand or mud whilst a CQR just skims across the bottom) so, given that Admiralty anchors are somewhat out-of-fashion these days:

(a) what would you recommend as a good kedge anchor? and

(b) any tried-and-tested ways to ensure any given kedge will actually dig in when you need it to??

Thanks,
C
 

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Where will you find a 200 pound Danforth and why? According to Danforth, the 25 pound anchor has 1600 pounds of pullout. Their largest "standard" is 100 pounds with 3500 pounds pullout. Can't imagine needing more than that. I wouldn't omit the chain though. It's a vital component to the anchoring system.
 

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I have used kedges with same size or slightly smaller size than main anchors with varying success

for leaning the mast to get off a sandbar or to keep the boat in a certain direction in current etc can be made to work just fine

danforths are great for sand...

although not a true careen we just hauled out my boat against some poles using 4 main anchors stuck in sand mud to keep the mast up and this worked quite well

it was a careen on sand...upright not like on a typical sandbar where you are leaned over and using a kedge to haul yourself off as the tide comes in

in any case
 
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yup thats my new style for now in these sandy bottoms here....15 feet is a nice aount to help the anchor steady itself better...
 

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I know some anchors work better than others when used with all-rope rode (given plenty of scope, a Danforth's flukes will usually still dig into sand or mud whilst a CQR just skims across the bottom) so, given that Admiralty anchors are somewhat out-of-fashion these days:
I don't know of any anchor that does better with all-rope rode. Since all anchors hold by digging, and the more horizontal the force vector, the the better the flukes will dig, I can't see how the lack of chain would ever be beneficial for holding. Might be beneficial for stowage and for deployment from a dingy, but not for actual holding effectiveness.

(a) what would you recommend as a good kedge anchor? and
I've used a danforth, but plan to purchase a Fortress. I'd also consider a Mantus b/c they both can be broken down and stowed in small spaces.

(b) any tried-and-tested ways to ensure any given kedge will actually dig in when you need it to??
Yup ... use lots of chain :D.
 

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I've seen a few reports where a SS cable is better than chain. It allows the anchor to dig deeper, hence a bit more pull out force to remove it.

A kedge to me is a smallish anchor that can be thrown, to pull you off. Maybe I am screwed up in the brain, would not be the first time. If I was to go this way, one of the new gen anchors like the Lewmar fast set I have works well on my boat. ie a 9 lb one, I've held myself, pulled myself better than equal wt danforths against my 30' 6500 or so lb boat. Held myself as RC duty in 10-15 knot winds one night. I do have a 6' chucnk of 3/8 bbb chain.

Marty
 

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No chain is a very bad idea and about the only thing you can count on is the anchor pulling loose. The more the better and it should be sized for the boat and the windlass if you have one. Cable is just not going to replace chain unless it's a pretty thick cable. It's the weight of the chain that keeps the pull of the anchor on a horizontal rather than a vertical. Never in over 50 years of boating have I ever seen cable on an anchor rode. Chuck
 

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commercial fishermen in some areas use cable and it works for them...its just not practical for most sailboats cause you need a very cumbersome and big drum...
 

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No chain is a very bad idea and about the only thing you can count on is the anchor pulling loose. The more the better and it should be sized for the boat and the windlass if you have one. Cable is just not going to replace chain unless it's a pretty thick cable. It's the weight of the chain that keeps the pull of the anchor on a horizontal rather than a vertical. Never in over 50 years of boating have I ever seen cable on an anchor rode. Chuck
Every commercial fishing vessel I've seen or worked on, on the West Coast, from Mexico to Alaska has had a cable rode on a spool. It is also very common on commercial work boats, internationally. However, I would not recommend it on pleasure craft as it is usually a pretty messy, requires much more scope than chain and the cable does require frequent changing and a powerful windlass, normally hydraulic.
 
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^^^^exactly
 

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Every commercial fishing vessel I've seen or worked on, on the West Coast, from Mexico to Alaska has had a cable rode on a spool. It is also very common on commercial work boats, internationally. However, I would not recommend it on pleasure craft as it is usually a pretty messy, requires much more scope than chain and the cable does require frequent changing and a powerful windlass, normally hydraulic.

lots of tar or old burnt oil to grease it up

all the shrimpers here use it...as do most commercial boats over say 50feet

anywhoo
 

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At the least, some chain coming off the anchor will help prevent chafing on rocks or coral. For years, we only used rode anchor setups. Now, I would have a hard time sleeping at anchor without all chain. Back in the day, we didn't sleep at anchor much, come to think of it.
 

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A kedge to me is a smallish anchor that can be thrown, to pull you off.
I agree, and I'm guessing that is what the OP is really asking about here... A hook that can be taken out in a tender, for instance, without having to drag along a lot of chain, and used only for a straight line pull, and not for extended anchoring thru wind shifts or changes in tidal streams, etc...

A Danforth is excellent for that purpose, once it is set... And, therein lies the rub :) Lighter weight Danforths, like the Hi-Tensile or Fortress, can sometimes be a bit difficult to set without some assist from the weight of some chain, particularly on a shorter scope... But the real problem is likely to arise, if the bottom is fairly hard, or very grassy. If there's any kelp about, forget about it...

the ultimate kedge anchor that might be used without chain, in my view would be a stainless Northill... Great holding power to weight ratio, it will set in just about anything right where you drop it, without depending on the weight of chain... the major downsides are, they are pretty bulky even when folded up for stowage, and they are quite rare and difficult to find these days...



Even better would be another version of the Northill called a Pekny, which was a beautifully made anchor from stainless that could be taken apart and stowed easily... But they were only made for a few years, and are even more rare, and close to impossible to find...



But, when all is said and done, one of the new gen Spade/Rocna/Manson/Mantus would all serve as a pretty good kedge anchor, as well...
 

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John,

Glad I am not as screwed up as I thought. For a Kedge, a rope only is probably how most of us would go.

I can see a danforth style as they are light, lots of surface area to grab once set. Even a graple style hook/anchor might work well if you have to literally throw it if you do not have use of a dinghy to get the "kedge/anchor" far enough away to make it work. I personally feel the smaller claw/manson/fastset style anchors would be better or best if you will. I find they set easier and better for this style of work.

Lighter slightly stretchy line would be on my list too. If in a rocky or coral area, then maybe a 3' chuck of plastic covered cable to help hold off the rubbing issues vs chain which is heavier for the same length and strength.

Marty
 

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I've seen a few reports where a SS cable is better than chain. It allows the anchor to dig deeper, hence a bit more pull out force to remove it.

A kedge to me is a smallish anchor that can be thrown, to pull you off. Maybe I am screwed up in the brain, would not be the first time. If I was to go this way, one of the new gen anchors like the Lewmar fast set I have works well on my boat. ie a 9 lb one, I've held myself, pulled myself better than equal wt danforths against my 30' 6500 or so lb boat. Held myself as RC duty in 10-15 knot winds one night. I do have a 6' chucnk of 3/8 bbb chain.

Marty
aha ... so having seen the glory that is the SS Bruce you now want SS cable ? Getting a bit fancy pants in your old age Marty ? :p
 

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Sorry on my previous post. I thought we were talking about using a short length of cable instead of chain on a pleasure craft, I didn't realize we were discussing commercial fishing vessels. Seriously though, has ANYONE every seem a pleasure boat, with a length of cable used in place of chain. Would any of the members here consider replacing the chain on your anchor rode with an equal length of cable? Lets compare apples to apples. Chuck
 

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Chuck,

THe OTHER thing you need to look at, if I am reading the OPs question correctly, a kedge is NOT what I would call a permanent anchor if you will, ie it is a way to pull you off of a ledge you have hit, or keep the boat from going farther up a beach if you beach the boat, be it on purpose or accident. So it does not have to be as big, strong etc as one would want to get thru a hurricane overnight lets say.

Practical sailor also ran a test a month or two ago, showing that using a cable in a normal anchor situation would allow most if not all of the anchors to bury deeper in mud, giving the anchor more holding power by a few % points.

For this purpose, frankly lighter wt stuff may work well or better than heavier stuff if Classic is asking what I and at least JonE are calling a kedge!

Marty
 

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Thanks Marty, I am just speaking from my own personal experience. Grew up on the Chesapeake Bay and started boating at age ten. That's 55 years ago. Sailed the Pacific coast from San Francisco to the Sea of Cortez. Cruised the Atlantic and Gulf coast of the U.S. many times. We sailed the Bahamas many times, northern and western Caribbean and have covered tens of thousands of miles. We've seen a lot of boats along the way and met a heck of a lot of boaters. In all that time and all those miles, I have never seen one of those boats with any kind of cable connected to the anchor rode. We have help many boats and indeed had to kedge ourselves off a shoal more than once. In every case, we and other boaters used their primary anchor to get off. In many cases, time is of the essence since the tides might be falling or weather closing in. There aren't any boaters that I know who will take the time to set up a separate kedge to get themselves off. They will use what's at hand and what they know has worked to safely hold the boat in the past. Not to add, the need to carry and store another anchor and/or rode for use on very few occasions. As long time live-aboards and cruisers, we are well aware of space needed for storage and carrying extra weight on the boat. This whole process may be fine for the occasional boater or weekend user. But you'll be hard pressed to find special cables or anchors just for kedging on a serious cruiser. Chuck
 
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