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I dont know how you people in the Northeast, California, & Illinois put up with this ********. High taxes, high fees, and crappy services.

At least here in Florida, we have crappy services, but our taxes are relatively low as well.
Yeah, but you've got an overabundance of Cowboy Cops that harass boaters.
Or maybe I'm just channeling all the rants I've heard/read on the Internet/magazines about the sheriff's deputies, natural resources police etc.
 

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Chastened
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Well, I'm glad I've ordered my new sails and got my boat maintenance up to par. New sails will be harder to afford with all the new taxes and fees coming down the line.
 

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Mermaid Hunter
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Dave, DNR has been breaking relatively thin ice for quite some time, however, their ice breaking activities was not for the recreational boating community or industry--it was strictly for commercial purposes, mainly so commercial watermen could get out to the open waters of the bay and gill-net striped bass (rockfish) and tong for oysters.
Hi Gary,

I know Back Creek pretty well. I dinghy up and down the creek often. We have a few head boats here, but I don't recall any waterman running out of Back Creek and certainly nothing else commercial.

I really don't argue your point, just some of the facts (which I don't think are true) that you use to buttress your argument.

The DNR budget must be available. An analysis might be quite interesting.

That said, DNR serves all the boaters on the MD waters of the Bay and not just new ones, so a funding mechanism based on all boats and not just new ones seems reasonable.
 

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Wandering Aimlessly
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What would be of interest, is how the budget constraints they seek to alleviate, have effected, as they have in the private sector, the jobs, wages and benefits of the DNR employees. I think the biggest problem most people have with higher fees/taxes/etc., is that while they do with less, government just keeps on growing. Or, to put it another way, if we're all in this together, how come we're the only ones making sacrifices?

That's a discussion that I think needs to take place before any action to raise fees/taxes/etc. happens. Not just on this issue, but on all issues, at all levels of government.
 

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Good thread.

I was impressed to see the term Oligarchy used as that is where we are at right now.

Socialism has one absolute outcome: wide spread poverty. You are watching it in action in America right now. Wealth is literally being transferred to the Oligarchy from the American people and we are just watching.

Obama, Romney, Gingrich and Santorum should all run on single ticket as they are a completely staged show for you to watch and think you have a choice. It's a sham.

Ron Paul is despised by all media (liberal and conservative) as he is not a "controlled candidate".

Choose wisely as this election will have severe consequences on the future of our country.
 

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Wandering Aimlessly
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Choose wisely as this election will have severe consequences on the future of our country.
We need more than a new captain for the ship of state, we need a new ship.
 

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The last time I was in Back Creek, which was about 10 years ago, there were at least two commercial crabbers docked near the upper end. Granted, they were just small workboats, but they were still working. I suspect that when crabbing season ended, they switched over to hand-tonging oysters, which as you are aware, takes place in the dead of winter.

As for all boats paying equal fees, well that's fine and dandy, but if DNR's budget hadn't been raided to balance the General Fund, they would have all the money they want. Having been in close contact with DNR for more than 4 decades I got to see the waste on a regular basis. You would be absolutely amazed at the number of do nothing projects our money is being spent upon. Kinda' like the bridges that you see on I-95 near Baltimore that go nowhere.

Gary :cool:
 

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Mermaid Hunter
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The last time I was in Back Creek, which was about 10 years ago, there were at least two commercial crabbers docked near the upper end. Granted, they were just small workboats, but they were still working. I suspect that when crabbing season ended, they switched over to hand-tonging oysters, which as you are aware, takes place in the dead of winter.
I don't think they're there anymore. I don't remember them in any of my forays upstream. I'll drop the dinghy back in the water in the next day or two and go look. I can say for sure that I haven't seen ANY watermen heading in or out past me.
 

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How does one determine "breaking thin ice" as different from "patrolling thinly iced waters" on routine patrol, for pollution or other problems?

Hearts-
"Socialism has one absolute outcome: wide spread poverty. "
Well, tell that to the Scandanavians. Finland calls itself a Demorcratic Republic, the same as the US, but it sure looks and acts like a socialist state but given their tax rate and social policies. And there's not much poverty to be found compared to, say, the richness of Appalachia.
Classic Greece was a Democracy, just like the US. Complete to having both citizens and slaves. So was Iceland. Perhaps that means Socialism is a superior state, since it does not allow for slaves?
 

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Mermaid Hunter
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How does one determine "breaking thin ice" as different from "patrolling thinly iced waters" on routine patrol, for pollution or other problems?
DNR has at least one large ice-hardened boat that is used most of the year for state-maintained buoy maintenance. We don't ever see it on patrol. It is just for maintenance (three seasons) and ice breaking (winter).
 

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How does one determine "breaking thin ice" as different from "patrolling thinly iced waters" on routine patrol, for pollution or other problems?

Hearts-
"Socialism has one absolute outcome: wide spread poverty. "
Well, tell that to the Scandanavians. Finland calls itself a Demorcratic Republic, the same as the US, but it sure looks and acts like a socialist state but given their tax rate and social policies. And there's not much poverty to be found compared to, say, the richness of Appalachia.
Classic Greece was a Democracy, just like the US. Complete to having both citizens and slaves. So was Iceland. Perhaps that means Socialism is a superior state, since it does not allow for slaves?
It all depends on the definition of slavery. Functionally when you are forced to turn over to other more than you keep for yourself, thats slavery and whether your turn over the bulk of you income to a 'master' or a bureaucrat ... the endpoint is the same: you ARE a slave/serf & no matter what you call 'the master'.
Scandinavia is no utopia as Norway requires essentially 90% of ones income in 'taxes', Sweden & Finland about 75%, Germany & France well over 60-65% ... and with those paying 'their fair share' have very little influence or control over the bureaucrats who 'manage' all their affairs. ... and yes in the mega-blue states of the US when you count up ALL the insidious forms of wealth extraction from individuals, its now about 60+% of income thats paid to 'some form of government' ... always of course euphemistically named as 'fair share', just not every YOUR fair share'.
 

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It all depends on the definition of slavery. Functionally when you are forced to turn over to other more than you keep for yourself, thats slavery and whether your turn over the bulk of you income to a 'master' or a bureaucrat ... the endpoint is the same: you ARE a slave/serf & no matter what you call 'the master'.
Scandinavia is no utopia as Norway requires essentially 90% of ones income in 'taxes', Sweden & Finland about 75%, Germany & France well over 60-65% ... and with those paying 'their fair share' have very little influence or control over the bureaucrats who 'manage' all their affairs. ... and yes in the mega-blue states of the US when you count up ALL the insidious forms of wealth extraction from individuals, its now about 60+% of income thats paid to 'some form of government' ... always of course euphemistically named as 'fair share', just not every YOUR fair share'.
Where do you get your "facts" dude? Glen Beck?

Lets just fact check one, okay?

Top tax rate in Norway is 48%. Take that from the uh, liberals, at the Heritage Foundation: Norway Economy: Facts, Data, & Analysis on Economic Freedom. Among the government control of their lives those poor enslaved scandanavians are sufferring include 46 weeks maternity / paternity leave (so they can enslave their newborns unlike the daycare freedom we provide our infants) Norway: Getting Paid for Parenting - US News and World Report ; 35 hour work week and 25 days paid vacation Countries With the Most Vacation Time - MainStreet (I do hear you can get whipped by Helga on your time off if that's your thang . . .); Wanna hear about their higher education system? Universal healthcare benefits (surely killing them with inferior care -- oh but what is their age expectance? infant mortality rate?) ****in facts get in the way . . ..

Cites dude, cites. It'll ease some of the pressure in your head. Now, go back to talking boats (where I've enjoyed a number of your posts in the past).
 
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