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Hi guys,

I am trying to figure out what is the right/proper way to comply with all the Federal and States (NY & NJ) requirements. I read multiple previous posts/discussions and I am still not sure I have all the correct answers.

This is my situation:
1) I live in NJ
2) I bought a boat (38 ft) last year in October - new from a dealer in NY
3) I am currently keeping the boat at this dealer's marina at the slip - permanent, not transient for this year.

As of now this is what I did:
1) USCG
a) I documented the boat with USCG and will have the "NO...." attached to the hull inside the boat
b) I have a hailing port as "New York, NY"
2) a) I registered the boat with NJ
b) I paid my NJ sales tax as a NJ resident
c) I am going to put the NJ decals at the bow
d) I will NOT put/write the NJ numbers on the bow

But then I started thinking :confused: :
1) I have a "hailing port" as "New York, NY", which I am thinking should be fine - shouldn't anyhow interfere with the fact that it's registered in NJ - as it was said multiple times here in the forums that Federal and State information are separate.
2) But what about the fact that I am keeping it in NY while it's registered in NJ ?
a) Should I (re)-register it in NY ??? - I am thinking this is something that I may need to do... But than if the next year I take it back to NJ - I would have to re-register it in NJ again ??? What if I take it to CT marina - would I have to re-register it with CT than?
I still live in NJ !!! :confused:
b) Will I have to pay NY taxes now (of whatever the difference between NY an NJ sales tax is). Probably not - as again, I am still a resident of NJ.

Can anybody please help me figure it out.

Thanks a lot!
 

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You basically screwed things up by USCG documenting the boat and then registering it in the state of NJ. You shouldn't be registering the boat with the state of NJ if the boat is in the state of NY. It probably needs to be registered in NY, since it is physically in the state.

As for sales taxes, since you bought the boat and kept it in NY... chances are good that you don't owe NJ for taxes... but YOU DEFINITELY OWE NY for taxes. However, if you paid the NJ taxes, you can probably get a waiver on paying the NY taxes.
 

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Dog, I am sorry but you are giving bad advice.

To the OP. you are good. You are a Jersey resident, that is where the boat needs to be registered. You know what happens to jersey residents found driving cars with Florida plates. The coast guard doc. has no being as there is no federal tax (yet). It's a state thing. Half the boats in my marina are jersey boats and I on the New York side of the river.

I know of jersey residents who have used address's of "enterprise zones" in jersey. there by getting a big break on the sales tax. By the way the sales tax here in Westchester and the city is 8 1/4%, you don't really want to pay that.
 

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If you register the boat in another state, you do not need to pay the seller's state's sales tax. I just bought a dinghy in NY and was not charged the sales tax as it will be registered in Michigan. This, by the way, is true of most vehicles. I bought a car in Kentucky and paid the sales tax / registration in Michigan, for example, despite being given a KY temp plate by the dealer.

Your location adds a conundrum. It is common for states to require you to register the boat in their state if that is where it is kept. Having said that, I see many boats permanently located that are registered in another state or even country. In a marina in Jersey City, NJ that I frequent, there are boats with NY, CT, NJ, RI and other states, permanently docked.

As for the hailing port on the back, no one cares. Put on whatever you want.

Were I you, I'd be inclined to just do the USCG registration and leave it at that. In my limited experience in the northeast, not that many people bother with displaying state numbers. I was in Newport the other weekend racing and only one boat out of 15 in the class sported numbers. The boats were from RI, NY, CT and TX, amongst others.
 

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I agree it appears that the OP should have registered the boat in NY and paid the NY sales tax, which actually the broker should have collected at the time of sale. (You might want to discuss the whys/why nots on this omission with the broker).

I urge the OP to figure out with 100% certainty what his obligation to NY will be, before he makes his boat's presence known to NY...and don't wait too long. Buying legal advice may be good money spent. While one state (NY) will usually credit you for sales/use tax DUE and paid to another state (NJ), they may not do that if they determine the tax was in fact due to them...they'll want it paid immediately, with interest and penalties as may be applied...and it'll be up to you to try to get the first tax payment back...

Good luck.
 

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bubb2,

What's the damage with a NJ resident driving on FL plates? If the vehicle is primarily located out of state or registered to an out of state person or corporation, what would be the issue?

The only thing I can think of is insurance.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Sailing dog,

Thank you for your reply !

Well, I am pretty sure that I did the right thing with paying NJ sales tax - I am a resident of NJ and that is why I need to pay NJ sales taxes and not a NY ones. As I said before I can (and most likely will) be moving the boat around different States marinas - NY, CT, NJ every year or so. I don't think that I would need to deal with sales taxes over and over again.

But the question still remains - would I need to register it with every state each time I move the boat ???

Thanks !
 

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Wow, this forum is smo-o-o-king ! :) While I was writing my reply to the dog, I got several more answers/replies.

bubb2,
The NJ sales tax is just a bit smaller - 7% NJ vs 8 1/4 NY - as you said.
Still it helps! Absolutely ! And I only wish I bought a boat through the "enterprise zone" - actually it was one of my considerations (although a very tiny one) when I was looking at boats - one Benetau dealer has an "office" in liberty marina.

pschoonveld,
The reason that I registered the boat with the State (NJ) in addition to documenting it with the USCG is that friend of mine (also NJ resident) got fined couple years ago in LI, NY for not having his State registration.
 

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I disagree... the boat is homeported currently in NY. The boat was bought in NY and kept in NY... it should have been registered in NY.
Dog, I am sorry but you are giving bad advice.

To the OP. you are good. You are a Jersey resident, that is where the boat needs to be registered. You know what happens to jersey residents found driving cars with Florida plates. The coast guard doc. has no being as there is no federal tax (yet). It's a state thing. Half the boats in my marina are jersey boats and I on the New York side of the river.

I know of jersey residents who have used address's of "enterprise zones" in jersey. there by getting a big break on the sales tax. By the way the sales tax here in Westchester and the city is 8 1/4%, you don't really want to pay that.
 

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SD is right if it is permanent in NY and NY law requires registration for USCG documented vessels (not all states do). But, if it isn't permanently docked in NY (which it sounds like it will be moving around), I don't see any reason to reg it in NY. There may be a number of days requirement that makes it less ambiguous.


vilyin:
It sounds to me like they could have contested that fine, depending on the situation. USCG reg should be sufficient for any transient boat. If it is docked permanently in NY, there may be reg requirements. Personally, I would have fought the fine and brought the boat out of state.

There are a lot of circumstances of boats doing things like this on the int'l scale. To avoid import tax, there are "90-day" marinas in Mexico and Canada where those with foreign-flagged vessels keep them for 90 days or more.
 

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bubb2,

What's the damage with a NJ resident driving on FL plates? If the vehicle is primarily located out of state or registered to an out of state person or corporation, what would be the issue?

The only thing I can think of is insurance.
Here in NJ and NY they want every tax dollar they can get their hands on. Lots of people have second homes in Florida. It is cheaper to buy and plate a car in Florida. If you are caught (like speeding ticket) in NY with a NY drivers license and a NY residence and car registered to you in FL, then NY want the sales tax and plates fees. There was a case here where a retired lawyer tried to say he was no longer a resident of NY and just had not gotten a FL drivers license but they checked the voter's record and he was still registered to vote in NY and NY said pay up, You are a NY resident. The law does say that you register your car and boat in the state of your resident.
 

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pschoonveld and the group...

sorry to disagree but the USCG does care about the home port, check

USCG National Vessel Documentation Center, FAQ Page

for details....both are registered, and require a paperwork update to change or modify the hailing port as well as the name. Both should match the papers you carry aboard, in case you are stopped or the boat is "overdue"....

IF it is documented, you do not need state numbers, that has been discussed here...you can "courtesy register" with the state, but only the USCG documentation number, Name, Hailing port are required. Doesn't mean the local deputy dawg will not stop you...but that is the law.

It appears to me the only reason to register with the state is to assess tax, and in this day and age you better be paying tax in some state with documentation to prove it and where and when you paid it. I have been stopped in MD to "prove" I paid sales tax, and personal property tax each year.

All the best, Liberty and Lincoln can be a bit bouncy, we have been up to visit my son who goes to Steven's Inst and stayed in each.

dave
 

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Florida and NY have this going on all the TIME with the 180 day rule and who gets the taxes


Taxation of Non-resident Flight Crew Members and its NOT at all simple :)
 

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....
Well, I am pretty sure that I did the right thing with paying NJ sales tax - I am a resident of NJ and that is why I need to pay NJ sales taxes .... !
You may be right...you may be wrong...I bet you are far more likely to be obligated to pay the NY sales tax, than the NJ use tax...where the boat is not in NJ. As long as NY doesn't come across the bill of sale at the dealer it may not ever matter...but I suspect they audit state dealers on stuff like this and will find you. I know that the state of Massachusetts does, both MA dealers and those of other New England states.

If your boat were in Massachusetts, I guarantee you the Commonwealth of Massachusetts would eventually demand and obtain the sales tax with interest and penalties from you, whether you paid a NJ tax or not.

As to NY, I can't say for sure...but it's not my money at risk...
 

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I disagree... the boat is homeported currently in NY. The boat was bought in NY and kept in NY... it should have been registered in NY.
Dog, it can't be. HE IS NOT A NY RESIDENT. The hailing port is a different thing, that is the USCG Doc and they don't care, they just want a address to mail the current doc. form to and it can be different than where the is kept and usually is.

Dog, I have been though this, I have bought 3 boats while living here. 2 of them were out of state purchases. I still have a family address in Indiana, and would have loved to register the boat there. Less tax, but if I would get caught as a NY resident they would want their sales tax with out relieve to what I paid in Indiana.

Dog, If what you say is correct, we would all be registering our boats in Alaska, no sales tax:)
 

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I didn't realize the USCG requirement, but state reg's don't matter for hailing port. I've seen people use their landlocked home city or a faraway port or a different state.

sailingfool:
The only way this person is in trouble with NY is if they figure out the boat is in NY and unregistered. The paperwork leads to a boat registered in NJ and tax paid in NJ, as the law would require.

If you want to be safe, when winter comes, move it to NJ, CT or RI to avoid the 180 days issue.
 

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Bubb—

The requirement for registering a boat in NY has nothing to do with the owner being a NY resident or not. If the boat is kept in NY waters for over 90 days, which is clearly the case here, it needs to be registered in NY state. See this website. There is no requirement for NY state residency listed.
 

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Dog, That is not a web site for the NY DMV. The NY law is 90 consecutive days. It is my understanding that it written that way for live aboard and has very little to do this conversation.

As a matter of fact Dog, This is a cut and paste from the NJ DVM.
<!-- InstanceEndEditable --><!-- InstanceBeginEditable name="ERContent" -->In order to use New Jersey waterways, all boats more than 12 feet in length must be titled at a Regional Service Center or MVC Agency. The only exceptions are: ship's lifeboat, canoe, kayak, inflatable boat, surfboard, rowing scull, racing shell and tender/dinghy used solely for direct transportation between a vessel and shore. Typically, if you purchase a boat from a New Jersey dealer, it will be titled during the sales process. If a title was not issued at purchase, then you will need to take the following steps.

If your boat is 12 feet or less, you do not need to title it.


Jersey wants every boat in their waters regestared in their state.
What they say and the way it is practiced is two diffrent things.
 

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We will see what happens NY works slow :)

My bud bought and 05 8.1 gas Suburban cheep when gas was at 4 bucks they have been pounding on him for MORE TAX despite the affidavits and bill of sale

Took them about a year BUT there like a pitbull NOW
 

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Guys, when in doubt, ASK THE TAX MAN. And the DMZV. You'll get the same answer from NJ or NY by phone or from their DMV web sites.

Being a NJ resident has nothing to do with anything except NJ use tax. Which may apply at the time of purchase, or at the time the boat is brought into NJ. ASK THE NJ TAX/DMV DIRECTLY.

Now, because the boat is being KEPT in NY, and kept more specifically "on the navigable waters" of NY for more than 90 consecutive days, both NY and NJ will tell you that the boat must be registered in NY. Federal documentation has nothing to do with this, you documented a boat--but you are registering a motor vehicle under the motor vehicle laws.

At the time of registration, you are required to show that sales tax has been paid (again, in NY or NJ alike) and since the boat was sold in NY and kept in NY, NY will demand sales tax--and now possibly a penalty if that was not paid promptly--on the purchase before they will issue the registration.

IF you can show that the boat is not subject to NY sales tax, they will waive payment of it.

But again--NYS has all the exact and correct information on the NYS DMV web site and the NYS Department of Taxation and Finance. If you phone then, DO NOT accept anything you are told on the phone. Get it in writing, by letter, by email, or from their web site. Clerks do sometimes make mistakes, and legally that's your problem--not theirs. If you have it in writing--that's official, and if it is wrong, you're excused.

If you plan to bring the boat to NJ, it sounds like what you should be doing is registering the boat, and paying the taxes, in NJ. AND matching the home port to NJ, because the NY tax authorities are going to get the list from the USCG and then send you a tax bill at the end of the year. Then just make sure the boat is OUT of NY navigable waters at least once every 89 days, and document that with receipts and logs.

While you're doing all this...NJ set a new standard this year, apparently ALL boaters who enter NJ waters as of this year must have a boating competency certificate from their home state or from NJ. No more exemptions for people over age 21, etc. So also check into that--because the NJ watercops stand to make a fortune from this change.
 
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