I'm wondering if NADA values are accurate,the reason I ask is that I'm going to look at a 1974 Catalina 22 swing keel on Sunday,the guy says its in great shape for the age of the boat.I looked it up and its dead on pricewise,but then I looked at a newer boat and it was 2000 under the NADA.Being a total newbie at this I'd hate to overpay.
Are NADA Values accurate ?
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Hey,
Short answer: No, NADA is not accurate.
Long answer: It's just about impossible for any guide to be accurate when it comes to buying complicated old things. For example, you can have two 1980 Catalina boats. One has new sails, newer outboard, some electronics, and the hull, keel, rudder, standing rigging, etc are all in good shape. The other has old sails, no electronics, poorly running outboard, rusted keel, winches that don't turn smoothly, etc. How is a guide book supposed to account for all that?
Since you are new, the best thing you can do it look at lots of boats. Spend some time seeing what's out there, then make a decision. Hint - it's a LOT cheaper in the long run to spend a little more $ upfront on a good boat than to try and save money by buying something in poor condition.
Good luck,
Barry
Short answer: No, NADA is not accurate.
Long answer: It's just about impossible for any guide to be accurate when it comes to buying complicated old things. For example, you can have two 1980 Catalina boats. One has new sails, newer outboard, some electronics, and the hull, keel, rudder, standing rigging, etc are all in good shape. The other has old sails, no electronics, poorly running outboard, rusted keel, winches that don't turn smoothly, etc. How is a guide book supposed to account for all that?
Since you are new, the best thing you can do it look at lots of boats. Spend some time seeing what's out there, then make a decision. Hint - it's a LOT cheaper in the long run to spend a little more $ upfront on a good boat than to try and save money by buying something in poor condition.
Good luck,
Barry
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I don’t know how accurate NADA values are for boats, however I owned a Catalina 25 for ten years so here is my advice, you may take it for exactly what you paid for it……….
Catalina 22’s as well as C25’s have a lot of variables that can make the value swing from one end of the spectrum to the other. The two main variables are the condition and age of the sails, and the age and condition of the outboard motor. Followed by the age and condition of the standing and running rigging. Most of the rest is cosmetics. Of course a trailer adds value to either model.
A 1974 model will have a few areas where a newer model, say 1986 or newer, has some benefits. The older models (pre-1986) used aluminum framed windows. They are difficult to repair and stop leaks. The post ‘85 models have acrylic windows. While just as prone to leak, they are a lot easier to fix.
Whatever year you may look at, if you look at a swing keel version, is to look at the lifting hardware and for any previous damage to the swing keel trunk.
Catalina’s made after 1986, in my opinion, are what I would be looking at.
Catalina 22’s as well as C25’s have a lot of variables that can make the value swing from one end of the spectrum to the other. The two main variables are the condition and age of the sails, and the age and condition of the outboard motor. Followed by the age and condition of the standing and running rigging. Most of the rest is cosmetics. Of course a trailer adds value to either model.
A 1974 model will have a few areas where a newer model, say 1986 or newer, has some benefits. The older models (pre-1986) used aluminum framed windows. They are difficult to repair and stop leaks. The post ‘85 models have acrylic windows. While just as prone to leak, they are a lot easier to fix.
Whatever year you may look at, if you look at a swing keel version, is to look at the lifting hardware and for any previous damage to the swing keel trunk.
Catalina’s made after 1986, in my opinion, are what I would be looking at.
Short answer - no.
Values will vary depending on local supply and demand, boat condition, and many other variables.
I would suggest you look around at other ads, especially online (places like yachtworld); put together your own spreadsheet, noting age and condition. With a small amount of analysis it will give you an indicator of typical asking prices.
Selling prices tend to be very localised, and vary year on year - and on the eagerness of the seller. A quick call to local brokers will give you some idea of common negotiated sale prices, or a friendly surveyor can look at actual sale prices.
The more research you do, the more you'll get a feel for the "right" price for a particular boat.
Good luck!
Values will vary depending on local supply and demand, boat condition, and many other variables.
I would suggest you look around at other ads, especially online (places like yachtworld); put together your own spreadsheet, noting age and condition. With a small amount of analysis it will give you an indicator of typical asking prices.
Selling prices tend to be very localised, and vary year on year - and on the eagerness of the seller. A quick call to local brokers will give you some idea of common negotiated sale prices, or a friendly surveyor can look at actual sale prices.
The more research you do, the more you'll get a feel for the "right" price for a particular boat.
Good luck!
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Five years ago when I was shopping for Catalinas in the 25-32' range I did a lot of comparisons between Soldboats.com data and NADA data. These were all boats that were 15 years old and newer. As a general rule, NADA values seemed to be about 20% low from actual selling prices shown in Soldboats.
However, as others have said, there's a huge variability in how the boats have been maintained, and that dictates a boat's value far more than any average valuation. You're much better off spending more for the best maintained boat.
However, as others have said, there's a huge variability in how the boats have been maintained, and that dictates a boat's value far more than any average valuation. You're much better off spending more for the best maintained boat.
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I did some analysis when buying several years ago on Soldboat and NADA values. NADA seems to normalize depreciation to around 11.7% per year independent of make/model/pedigree, etc. I guessing this lets them produce prices without specifically analyzing every situation, spreads putt their risk as an average. Soldboat data is a much more accurate picture of market price and would use that data to derive an offer price.
Catalina Sailboat I'm looking at this on Sunday,any opinions on price ,condition,problems with that year ?
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A broker can provide Soldboats data if you inquire.
Data from Yachtworld gets you in the ballpark. I found sale prices (e.g. Soldboats data) to be between 6%-18% lower than YW asking prices. Average is around 12%.
6% is prob an above average boat. Great condition, no repairs or issues
12% average/typical shape
18% needs works or has an issue or overpriced
Hope this helps.
Josh
Data from Yachtworld gets you in the ballpark. I found sale prices (e.g. Soldboats data) to be between 6%-18% lower than YW asking prices. Average is around 12%.
6% is prob an above average boat. Great condition, no repairs or issues
12% average/typical shape
18% needs works or has an issue or overpriced
Hope this helps.
Josh
That helps a lot and makes sense
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They seem to be accurate in one respect that may be very important, or absolutely useless.
The loan value most banks use will depend on NADA. So, if you are financing a boat then NADA has value.
More importantly, if you are selling a boat that will probably require the new owners to finance, then you might end up handcuffed to that value.
At least that was my experience...
The loan value most banks use will depend on NADA. So, if you are financing a boat then NADA has value.
More importantly, if you are selling a boat that will probably require the new owners to finance, then you might end up handcuffed to that value.
At least that was my experience...
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No..
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The boat looks great in the ad. The owner sounds like he took pride in her, and the improvements sound good.
Here are some questions to look for when you see her: Look at the bilge - is it clean? Is the deck where the shrouds (the wire holding the mast in place) solid and clean? Does the motor start right up? Do the sails have that crisp, new feel?
If you can have a knowledgable friend look at it with you it can really help. At first blush this looks like a great boat.
Here are some questions to look for when you see her: Look at the bilge - is it clean? Is the deck where the shrouds (the wire holding the mast in place) solid and clean? Does the motor start right up? Do the sails have that crisp, new feel?
If you can have a knowledgable friend look at it with you it can really help. At first blush this looks like a great boat.
My parents sold their similarly kept and professionally maintained (ie - my father wanted to sail and had no interest in maintaining, but knew the value of doing it) 1984 for that exact price 7 years ago. Given the market crash for used boats in the interim, it's probably 500-1000 overpriced, but also probably worth it (to you) as a half or full boat unit is nothing compared to the price of attempting to fix deferred maintenance.
The boat does show pride of ownership,I'm not one to pay full price for anything so If interested I'll make him an offer.i appreciate your input and may use it as leverage along with not needing financing,hopefully he'll bite
One thing to look at that would say that price is more than fair is if he upgraded the winches to self tailing along the way. Those weren't standard in 1974, I don't believe. The cost of retrofitting would be more than the price difference I stated.
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When I was selling my previous boat (25+ years old), I found that both NADA and BucValu overestimated the price. I agree with the previous comment that they seem to use a depreciation formula rather than real sales data to generate their numbers. This may be fine for cars that are only a few years old but doesn't work at all on old boats.
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I posted a detailed comparison of the three "boat valuation" services some time ago in answer to a similar (the same?) question...
I believe that anyone considering the purchase of a used boat should have as much information about the purchase as possible. It is another data point that should help any prospective buyer make an informed decision. Knowing the market for a particular year make and model can be as important as knowing what brand of engine, or the moisture reading of the hull and deck.
I have to respectfully disagree with Main Sail on his characterization on NADA as "Their values have been about as accurate as a drunk shooting darts from 40 yards." Unless he knows better drunk dart players than I do...
I also, respectfully, disagree about soldboats.com being the ONLY close to accurate resource. BUCvalue (Boat Values, Prices, Evaluations, Used Boat Price Guides - BUCValu) is another resource, which I believe is slightly more accurate, and it allows 3 price views in a 3 month time window. I have also looked at SOLD prices in eBay as a data point.
Using your example here is a comparison of the values from the three main sources (BUCvalu, NADAguides, and SoldBoats.com) for a '75 Columbia 26.
BUCvalu; $5450-$6250
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NADAguides $5650-$6400 - Note that this is a little HIGHER than BUC
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SoldBoats.com
Note the range of years (1972-1978), and the range of dates of sale (1996-2010) that I used in my search... If I tighten up the dates of sale to last year only, there were 2 that sold. The one in GA, listed for $2995, which sold for $2400 after 14 months, and one in NC, listed for $10, and sold for $10 after 20 months. If you were using SoldBoats to figure the current average selling price of this boat (2410 / 2 = $1205), you would be far under what BUC and NADA provide.
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I would state that there is more information available through Soldboats.com. However, the only accurate measure of the value of a specific boat to you is what you are willing to pay for it, and what the seller is willing to accept.
I've said this elsewhere in SailNet; "The value of any specific boat (or anything) is only determined after a specific seller and a specific buyer agree to a specific price at a specific time. Changing any one of these can affect the price dramatically."
I hope this helps!
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