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OP,

Have a look here. Might be of interest.




 
OP,

Have a look here. Might be of interest.




With all due respect, this is a good example of a really poor choice for an offshore voyage that someone misguidedly poured a ton of money into. Unfortunately I have seen this type of thing too many times.

People fall in love with the looks of these boats, and think that somehow they might be acceptable cruisers. With that in mind they pour a ton of money into 'upgrading' these boats with the type of gear that most people expect out of a modern cruiser.

But no matter what you do to one of these obsolete old race boats, you can't change the reality that by any objective standard the basic design of these boats is a miserable design for a coastal cruiser, let alone a distance cruising boat.

Like most extreme CCA race boats, the Black Watch 37 (Tartan 37) are a bear to handle in changing conditions. They tend to be very tender. They have poor motion, tending to roll and pitch through large roll and pitch angles. They are expensive to maintain and yet have limited accommodations and carrying capacity. Because these design limitations, they have limited utility as a cruising boat, and so no matter how much money you pour into one of these, they have little to no market value.

Jeff
 
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OP,

Have a look here. Might be of interest.




Looking at the interiors... I would opine that this is not a very good design for live aboard or term cruising. An example of useless is the nav desk... no place for instruments... and the breaker panel is back by the companionway. The galley is terribly small as well. And what's the counter bar thing aft of the nav desk. Sorry Ted... lines are pretty but this is not a design for more than local over-nighting. I agree with JeffH completely.
 
Jeff and Sander,

Thanks for the comments. Yup it sure looks pretty and salty.

Its sailing qualities aside dose it reflect roughly the size and condition of boat that can be had for about $20k. Or are the performance deficiencies so widely known that it depresses the boats value.

Asking for the OP here. What can he expect for his investment?
 
Jeff and Sander,

Thanks for the comments. Yup it sure looks pretty and salty.

Its sailing qualities aside dose it reflect roughly the size and condition of boat that can be had for about $20k. Or are the performance deficiencies so widely known that it depresses the boats value.

Asking for the OP here. What can he expect for his investment?
I think that the issues with these designs are much better understood than maybe 15-20 years ago so that very few people actually want these boats anymore. Its heartbreaking to see a boat like the Black Watch since you know that there is an owner who cherishes that boat. I have seen this time and again,

A friend of mine redid a similar model boat that was maybe 5 feet longer, He did a fabulous job of replacing anything that could be replaced. Here was a boat with pretty much every desirable piece of cruising gear replaced new, the engine and sails almost new, new upholstery, hard dodger....you name it, he did it. The boat looked better than when it left the factory. He could not find a buyer at any price. He finally donated it.

Another acquaintance had a very nice looking Bristol 40. He rewired and replumbed it, painted the decks, varnished anything that could be varnished, and rebuilt the engine. The boat had pretty fresh upholstery, and had good sails, decent instruments and everything worked. The boat looked great for a 50 year old boat that had been in use pretty much all of that time. He had it listed for sale at ever decreasing prices for 5 or more years. As his health was fading, he finally just literally gave it away rather than pay for a haul out and another year of maintenance. The first time that the guy who was given that boat got into bad weather, he called me and said that he was ready to give the boat away. (I talked him out of that but have not heard from him since.)

In recent years, for the most part, the people who have interest in these old CCA boats are either younger new sailors looking for a really cheap coastal cruiser at a bargain basement price ($5-8K) or else older folks nostalgically looking for a day sailor/overnighter (for $5-8K).

Neither group are willing to pay for all of the work and gear that someone else has put into into these old girls. Moreover, they generally do not have the mix of time, skills, physical condition, and money to keep these boats operational. .

Lets face it, by and large these boats reflected a fad that produced sub-optimal boats to own. That fad died over 50 years ago. Boats like these are like trying to sell the silly 1970's era oversized collared shirts and high wasted 'elephant' bellbottoms. They were a product of their times but their times have long since passed. Its one thing to wear clothing that is a social faux pas, its another to place your life on the line in an obsolete old race boat. It does not help, that you can buy equal condition, newer and better built, and better sailing designs in the same general price range.

Jeff
 
I want to buy a Alberg 30 as my first boat, so my husband and I can learn and cruise safely, take it to the Caribbean and eventually cross the Atlantic. We are also planning to have children soon so I'd like to be able to fit in 2 more kids in the future. We are on a budget so we are not looking for so much comfort, but safety is the most important for us. I just want to know if it's doable, if it's safe. We don't mind putting in the work, there's a 1968 model I found...I'd like to get as much suggestions as possible. Thanks!!
Here's a link that may help you with offshore worthy boats. George
 
Here's a link that may help you with offshore worthy boats. George
Interesting list with comments!
 
Id go with a J/30. Best old sailboat ever. Cruising thats not boring. Ive read an article about cruising a J/30 in the Caribbean for a year. They did some additions to the interior. That's about it. Remember, this boat is the king of the 1979 Fastnet race. Strong, but fast. They are finally pretty cheap now. May need to do a little core work. But thats why they are affordable. This boat would be my choice for a couple to do a year cruise. Havent been successful talking my wife into it yet. Still working on it.

J boats J30 cruising
 
Jeff,

Thanks for the explanation. Although I am a senior I came to sailing late and there is much history I do not know. Thoughtful and well explained as usual.
 
The OP does not seem to list his sailing (or shopping) area, but there is a fully restored Cascade 29 for sale here (Portland OR) in his general price range. It was re-manufactured extensively for long term use, and then the owner unfortunately died in a plane crash. Yes it was/is an awful situation. :(
That model has sister ships going thousands of sea miles for decades. Robert Smith NA design, and built very strong.
 
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Discussion starter · #31 ·
I think that the issues with these designs are much better understood than maybe 15-20 years ago so that very few people actually want these boats anymore. Its heartbreaking to see a boat like the Black Watch since you know that there is an owner who cherishes that boat. I have seen this time and again,

A friend of mine redid a similar model boat that was maybe 5 feet longer, He did a fabulous job of replacing anything that could be replaced. Here was a boat with pretty much every desirable piece of cruising gear replaced new, the engine and sails almost new, new upholstery, hard dodger....you name it, he did it. The boat looked better than when it left the factory. He could not find a buyer at any price. He finally donated it.

Another acquaintance had a very nice looking Bristol 40. He rewired and replumbed it, painted the decks, varnished anything that could be varnished, and rebuilt the engine. The boat had pretty fresh upholstery, and had good sails, decent instruments and everything worked. The boat looked great for a 50 year old boat that had been in use pretty much all of that time. He had it listed for sale at ever decreasing prices for 5 or more years. As his health was fading, he finally just literally gave it away rather than pay for a haul out and another year of maintenance. The first time that the guy who was given that boat got into bad weather, he called me and said that he was ready to give the boat away. (I talked him out of that but have not heard from him since.)

In recent years, for the most part, the people who have interest in these old CCA boats are either younger new sailors looking for a really cheap coastal cruiser at a bargain basement price ($5-8K) or else older folks nostalgically looking for a day sailor/overnighter (for $5-8K).

Neither group are willing to pay for all of the work and gear that someone else has put into into these old girls. Moreover, they generally do not have the mix of time, skills, physical condition, and money to keep these boats operational. .

Lets face it, by and large these boats reflected a fad that produced sub-optimal boats to own. That fad died over 50 years ago. Boats like these are like trying to sell the silly 1970's era oversized collared shirts and high wasted 'elephant' bellbottoms. They were a product of their times but their times have long since passed. Its one thing to wear clothing that is a social faux pas, its another to place your life on the line in an obsolete old race boat. It does not help, that you can buy equal condition, newer and better built, and better sailing designs in the same general price range.

Jeff
Honestly if there's such boats looking for owner I'd be happy to take it. It's a boat that sails, what could possibly go wrong than a free boat that works? Even if I sink it I would still be able to enjoy a lot of it. Are there a lot of boats like that out there? I really would be happy to find a free boat that works no matter if it's ready for crossing the ocean :)
 
Honestly if there's such boats looking for owner I'd be happy to take it. It's a boat that sails, what could possibly go wrong than a free boat that works? Even if I sink it I would still be able to enjoy a lot of it. Are there a lot of boats like that out there? I really would be happy to find a free boat that works no matter if it's ready for crossing the ocean :)
But that is the thing! While it may be equipped to perhaps do some longer distance voyaging, only a very skilled sailor would have the skills to reliably sail one of these safely across an ocean. But more likely than not, a skilled and experienced sailor would not choose one of these for that purpose when there are better boats out there for around the same cost by the time they say bob voyage.

You need to understand maintaining a boat, let alone fitting it out to cross an ocean is expensive. Those sunk costs to bring one of these older boats up to a reasonable condition (even if spartan and old school) is many times what these boats will ever be worth, so you want to chose carefully. You want to pick the best platform that you can, because in the end the difference in cost between a free boat or a cheap boat with a bad design, and an inexpensive boat of a good design will be pretty much the same, but one will serve you well and help keep you safe, and the other will put you at risk. In one case, you are successfully voyaging in part because of the design of the boat, and in the other, if you safely voyage, it is despite the boat and through your own ingenuity.

The take away should be that a bad design is always a bad design, but in every period and price range, there were boats that are more suitable for voyaging than others from that era. Ideally you try to assemble a list of worthwhile candidates. Then list in hand, your best bet is to start looking at maritime organizations that have boats donated to them, and in places like Craigslist. Often there will be half finished projects, and boats that an owner otherwise can't sell. If you have taken the time to learn about what makes a good boat for offshore cruising, you will be in a position to pick out a worthwhile candidate to pour your heart and soul into, rather than some worthless piece of junk to pour a ton of time and money into, in the end turning what was someone else's mistake into now what has become your mistake and your problem, with your life on the line.

I will add, if your goal is only to learn to sail and develop boat owning skills, and your are good with hands, there are still free, or next to free boats out there. I am helping a friend restore and old 30 foot race boat. He will end up with maybe $2,000-$3,000 in her when she is completed. She will be a good coastal cruiser, but never a boat to take offshore. And as I understand it, you want a boat to cross an ocean and have a family on,

Jeff
 
I want to buy a Alberg 30 as my first boat, so my husband and I can learn and cruise safely, take it to the Caribbean and eventually cross the Atlantic. We are also planning to have children soon so I'd like to be able to fit in 2 more kids in the future. We are on a budget so we are not looking for so much comfort, but safety is the most important for us. I just want to know if it's doable, if it's safe. We don't mind putting in the work, there's a 1968 model I found...I'd like to get as much suggestions as possible. Thanks!!
I have a couple of friends on a 27', but it is just them and the cat and they are in 20s. I have another couple on a Bristol 30 and they are in their 50s/60s.

Neither says an extra body would be doable in the long run. But it truly is a to each their own.
 
I want to buy a Alberg 30 as my first boat, so my husband and I can learn and cruise safely, take it to the Caribbean and eventually cross the Atlantic. We are also planning to have children soon so I'd like to be able to fit in 2 more kids in the future. We are on a budget so we are not looking for so much comfort, but safety is the most important for us. I just want to know if it's doable, if it's safe. We don't mind putting in the work, there's a 1968 model I found...I'd like to get as much suggestions as possible. Thanks!!
First of all. Go for a bigger boat. 3 people. Plus gear. Crossing Atlantic. Your gonna need a bigger boat. Lol. I have a 37 cutter. Ans it's very big. But I hate it when there's more than just me Ans my wife. 1 person. Plus gear. Plus provisions for each person takes a lot of space. Not to mention water usage. Etc etc
 
A friend of mine sailed his A-30 around the world in 1975-77 with his nephew as crew. Crossing the Indian Ocean he had two more aboard. His experience encouraged me to buy and cruise an A-30 for 10 years, mostly with my wife aboard. More than two people makes sleeping a bit of a drill. If all aboard are extremely compatible living a fairly Spartan life it can be done. But some folks are incompatible regardless of boat size.
 
Jean-du-Sud & the Magick Byrd is a book about sailing on an Alberg 30.

"In 1982, filmmaker, inventor & artist Yves Gelinas set out to sail solo & nonstop around the world, via the fabled Great Capes, in his beloved Alberg 30 'Jean-du-Sud.' In the tradition of the early solo solo sailors, Yves' voyage was one of personal discovery as much as physical exploration. He recounts the voyage, which nearly ended in disaster when he was rolled & dismasted near Cape Horn..."

There is an English version. It's also available as a free audio book on the podcast "sailing stories".

Anyways, before he set out he spent considerable time strengthening his Alberg 30. Among other things, I think he replaced the mast, so these were not small changes. He also invented the Cape Horn wind vane for this trip, which he still sells. My understanding is he is still sailing that Alberg 30.

 
Hi,

There are a couple of things that should be done before purchasing a boat... First on that list should be taking a couple of sailing courses...

After that, there should still be experimentation in order to see what are your preferences, and what suits you best... You'll end up with some criterias that should orientate your purchase, if you decide to make one.

And after that, you should try out the boat, if possible. I can say how it feels for me, but you're a different person and may get a different opinion from another person here. Point is, at that time, it should be you that figure up how it is, what will be the pros and the cons, and ask rather about eventual conception issues, and ways to solve them without spending a great amount of cash you won't want to cope with, than on if your project is doable or not.

Most of the time, I'd say that almost everything is doable, but not necessarily secure, confortable, or up to your very needs, or very making a lot of economical sense. Furthermore, sometimes, getting a design to suit what you want may end up costing you more than a newer, fresher design from a decade later... which is why often the initial price point won't be the best indication that you'll spend less for your purchase than with another another one which may be in better condition, or with another model. It can/but may not be very close to the total you'll spend to revamp the boat.

Sure, too, to think about, as I'll point out, there are some elements you'll see and have to deal with the Alberg 30 - that may indicate you that the boat will fit you well... or not particularly well.

First point: I would try to make the less mistakes I can on my boat, especially if it's the boat I plan to stick with as I found a family. The repairs and troubles encountered by not being particularly handy with a boat you own may cost you a couple of hundred, and often thousands of dollars...

Getting a little education, and some practice, will truly help you not spend your cash for nothing, especially if you're tight on budget.

Secondly, the Alberg 30 is not a huge boat, but is somewhat slow in giving you feedback. You'll make errors, you won't notice them really quickly. An error on a boat you pay 1-2k for, without any engine, without sails that cost you a couple of hundreds each, won't be what you'll crave for.

I'd really suggest you to take try to manoeuver out a boat singlehand before making a boat purchase, and to try out any boat you may purchase for something like one or two hours. Being sure you appreciate what you get is essential. You don't want to ask yourself what where you thinking about two-three months after getting the boat. And on that boat, you may get a better sense of what it'll be like, than by listening to our impressions.

The Alberg 30 is not a high-end nor a low-end production boat, it's a little over average boat in terms of quality, but it is quite old, and a couple of these suffer some delamination, osmosis, blistering or other issues, such as issues on their engines. These won't be necessarily easy to detect unless you are accompanied by a professional marine surveyor, and get to run those engines.

Be sure to have a good look at particular points where some extra attention is required, and have a professional surveyor that has no interest vested in the sale with you if you ever make the purchase. Be sure your boyfriend likes the boat as much as you do, as he may have a different take on the boat.
Contact him/her (the professional who will inspect the boat) after you have inspected the boat thoroughly, and have found little, or no issues at all, or issues you are ready to deal with. Otherwise, if you don't know much about sailing, boat layouts, and this kind of stuff, you may end up with a little more than a wreck.

They aren't particularly fast nor slow, are somewhat confortable, but do have a habit of hobby horsing when conditions aren't at their best. At the same time, some people will get to deal with it, and accomodate theirselves, especially if they don't get far away, it'll be possible to just come back home and stop the adventure right when you have got past the point where you enjoy sailing. I tell you that because if you are not so skilled, I'd rather forgive, at least initially, any idea of pulling the trigger and trying to push your luck when the water is not calm, and there is a lot of wind.

It'll be progressive, and you have to start somewhere to end up somewhere.


The layout of the Alberg 30, I think you may want to get a better look at it, it'll show you that's there isn't so much extra space, and you may end up feeling a little too squeezed, with the feeling that things are cramped.

These can take load, but I mean it all depends: if you want to spend the day or maybe a couple of days out, there will be no problem. If, however, you plan to spend a couple of weeks out... having a tiny space to deal with, with two children, for weeks, and having to figure out where you have placed this or this, and store things in a particular configuration as you have not a lot of storage space (unless you work on that, which is what you may want to do) may not help you: to be running into each other, may prove that on the long term, what was adequate for two wasn't for four, especially when they grow up.

You should read on them, if you plan to buy one of them. It will hint you the particularities, and from there, you'll see the good, the bad, and the ugly - and what is workable, and what is not, or not without a lot of cash.

Alberg 30 are not so pricey to purchase though, nor the worse ones you could pick. But, if I were you, I wouldn't make the purchase beforse having done a couple of sailing courses, getting a better opinion on what other options are, and having someone who's job will be to tell you the truth about what he sees as issues on that boat you may, may not purchase.

Finally, if you ask me, with the proper knowledge, and some practice, would I buy one, I'd say probably no. It might not be the best choice at that price point (under 30k). And you? It may not be the one you'll be happy with. It may not be the one you'll want to pick if you try other ones before settling. I'll say it once again, these are fine, quite affordable vessels, but not the very best you may get for what you plan.

Follow my advice, do read on boat purchasing, learn what to look for, read on what to care for on older boats: on the internet, there is a lot of information you'll be able to grasp fairly quickly.

And I support @Jeff_H's answer, he has given you other options that look to him (and to me, also) more compatible with what you want.;)

Oh, and be sure to have considered all other aspects of a boat's purchase (such as maintenance costs, setting apart a budget for any repairs, and all the other related expenses, the time for taking proper care of the ship) before making your decision.

This is the way you won't regret it.


That said, have fun and take care.
 
I had a buddy that lived on an Alberg 30, single guy, always had a gaggle of gals down on the boat on Friday night, but most of them were gone by Saturday morning the rest were gone by Sunday. They are just too small for more than one person. There are so may boats of equal price and length that would work better. Go down below on one, there is no space, you almost need to go out on deck to change your mind, never mind change you clothes.
 
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