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Discussion Starter #1
I was talking to a guy who took an ASA 101 course and he said the instructor let everyone talk among themselves during the test.

I have taken several ASA courses and never saw that before. Is that common?
 

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Mine didn't.
 

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I was free to talk it over amongst myself since I was the only one there, I don't remember the tests as being difficult enough to require a group effort.
 

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Land lubber
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On the water test, yes. Written test, certainly not. It's an exam. Talking is cheating.
Old school mentality. In this information age things have changed. It is more important to know how and where to find the information than to be able to spit it out on cue.....
 

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Good point. Next time I need to quickly figure out which sailboat is the stand-on one, I'll just look it up on the internet.

Clearly, to be a good citizen, it's necessary to be well-informed. That means knowing some facts.. I don't need to know the exact date of every historical event, but I do need to have an understanding of the events that have shaped the world, in order to have an informed opinion.

In this case you have completed 4 days of tuition, during which you may, or may not, have adsorbed the course material. The test is to see if you have. If you can pass the test without absorbing it, that's an insult to everyone who took the course and diligently learned the material.
 

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I've administered many dozens of these tests and the test score is expected to reflect solely the knowledge of the individual test taker. The instructor who signs a student's certification knowing the test was not properly administered would be way out of line, I just dont recall the relevant certification statement.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Good. When the stuff hits the fan while on the water the first thing I want to do is a google search.
Out of a hundred questions on 101 about 60 were about vocabulary.

There were only about 10 questions on rules of road and you can get 20 wrong and still pass.

There is no way in my opinion that some one is going to learn to sail in two days no matter how many multiple choice questions they get right.

So while I agree with you in principle from a practical matter I'm not sure it matters.

Not defending the open test idea though and never saw it before myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I just dont recall the relevant certification statement.
If you find it let me know. The guy said everyone was very happy with how much they learned. He said none of them were marginal so for them it didn't matter much.

I could see with a marginal student that couldn't even get an 80 it would show that they didn't even open the book before the class.
 

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s/v Ilya
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I recall that the test for 101 is pretty easy, and in my course, everyone got at least 95% according to the instructor. While I wouldn't condone the group test approach as described in the original post, given how easy it is, the test in that case was more like a study group, since people were presumably unlikely to fail anyway.

I recall my 103 test was a good deal harder (it was a 101/ 103 combined course), so much so that I remember I got 3 of the first 4 wrong and got really scared. I passed, however. Given that it was more difficult, I couldn't support taking the test as a group. In either case, I imagine it violated the ASA rules or guidelines.
 

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There is no way in my opinion that some one is going to learn to sail in two days no matter how many multiple choice questions they get right.
It's not like a powerboat that's for sure. At least after my 101 course I knew what all the ropes were for ;)
 

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Lets see. Its a voluntary basic entry level course.
I does not officially qualify anyone to do anything.

It’s a practical course where you gain both knowledge and experience by doing.

The real purpose of the test at the end. Is to provide feedback to the instructor so they know every thing has been covered and you understood it.

They talked. big deal.

I used to be an instructor. I took the view if you were smart enough to take the course you had passed. I never failed anyone. If their test result wasn’t good I would go over it with them again and explain what they got wrong.
Actually it was a course requirement to review the exam with the student.
Just another learning tool.

If I remember right statistically you would be doing pretty good to remember a 3rd of it a week later.
 

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Land lubber
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On the water test, yes. Written test, certainly not. It's an exam. Talking is cheating.
Old school mentality. In this information age things have changed. It is more important to know how and where to find the information than to be able to spit it out on cue.....
Is that like .... the Common Core thing?
I do not know if common core pushes this in their agenda. I feel it is more of the case that there is more information out there than anyone can know. There are fast and accurate resources to get the correct info. Getting the correct info is more important.

I am a mechanic. I do not know everything about every car ever made. I DO know where to get the info I need though. When I get the info I need (wiring diagrams, parts schematics, torque specs, etc.), I can fix anything ;).

Once again, I said his opinion that talking is cheating is old school/outdated.
 

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Lets see. Its a voluntary basic entry level course.
I does not officially qualify anyone to do anything.

It’s a practical course where you gain both knowledge and experience by doing.

The real purpose of the test at the end. Is to provide feedback to the instructor so they know every thing has been covered and you understood it.

They talked. big deal.

I used to be an instructor. I took the view if you were smart enough to take the course you had passed. I never failed anyone. If their test result wasn’t good I would go over it with them again and explain what they got wrong.
Actually it was a course requirement to review the exam with the student.
Just another learning tool.

If I remember right statistically you would be doing pretty good to remember a 3rd of it a week later.
Actually the test is a requirement to obtain an ASA certification, and passing it plus the on-the-water test obtains the ASA certification.

So ASA likes to have it taken seriously, as passing (and failing) tests lend credibility to the ASA certifications and the business.

So we fail folks who can't pass on their own. Otherwise the ASA concept falls apart.
 

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Learning the HARD way...
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I'll play devil's advocate here; I've looked through my notes, the ASA Instructor Code of Ethics, and searched the ASA website, yet can find no specific reference where allowing the students to discuss the test is forbidden. I therefore believe that it is up to the instructor's discretion.

That said, I do not allow my students to talk about the test during the test. I also know that ASA goes through their schools and weeds them out.
 

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bell ringer
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davidpm;2182609 There is no way in my opinion that some one is going to learn to sail in two days no matter how many multiple choice questions they get right. [/QUOTE said:
Probably as much time "behind the wheel" that someone gets before taking a written exam and a bare minimum driving test before being given a drivers license to drive a car and do what is probably the most regularly dangerous thing we do in life.
 
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