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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Greetings all and thanks very much for the continuing advice.

I've been grinding through boat walk throughs and trying to narrow things down, but running into a dilemma. I have two strong absolutes in my search: No teak decks and must have 6'3 headroom. I'd really like a modified fin keel/skeg rudder plan, but may have to live with a modified full keel. I don't want to be over $100K total equipped, but edging up to a $150K limit. Beyond that I get pretty reasonable. :)

But here is the dilemma ... The Passport would be beautiful, but seems to only exist with teak decks (and pricey, but hey, it's beautiful). The Valiant is only about 6'1" headroom if I recall right (please correct me if you know better). The Pacific Seacraft is also shorter than 6'3" I think. Checked on a Pearson 424, but ultimately not real comfortable with it as a multiyear bluewater boat. I like Tayana 37's, but they are also just a bit short and a modified full keel and would have to find the pullman berth.

So the question: Can anyone suggest a boat similar to any or all of the above (esp. the Passport) that does not cost $250K, has a modified fin keel/skeg, 6'3" headroom, and capable of safely wandering where I choose? I suppose I could just buy the Passport and rip off the teak, but boy that seems like a lot of money for a boat to just start tearing it apart.

I just know me and that means I'm going to run aground, probably someplace remote. I'll be going slow, but I'll see some little hole someplace and try to squeeze in ... hence, no spade rudder.

Thanks again for any assistance!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for all the replies.

The teak decks may be something I have just become overly concerned about. I like the look (who wouldn't), but since I'm looking at boats that are at least 20 years old, I don't want to run into underlayment replacement problems. My other concern is the result of wanting to use the boat primarily in the tropics and I've read the teak decking gets very hot. It does seem like I could find one with the teak already removed - but so far no luck on that front. My timeline still allows me a couple years to search though.

Sailingdog, I agree the P40 may be pushing the budget limit, but I'm curious if everyone else feels that budget is unrealistic in general? In truth, I am trying to work out some of the variables involved and that is how the P40 snuck in - I used to think I'd buy a cheaper boat and bring it up to the task and then sell it at the end. The P40 has me now thinking the wiser move may be to buy a better boat and spend the same $$$ bringing it up to speed, but recoup at least as much of the of the initial purchase price at the end of the cruise. If boat "A" can be bought for $60k and I put $60K into it, sail, then resell for $40K; am I really any further ahead than buying a well-kept Boat "B" for $140, putting the same $60K into it and reselling at the end for $120? If my logic turns out to be accurate, the same real money provides a better boat, more enjoyable cruise, and possibly greater safety. Any thoughts?

As for re-thinking in general, I may be totally wrong, but I think I should be able to find something in the 37' - 40' range for that target cost. I like, and see listings for, Tayana 37s generally in the $80K range. Assuming $40K in refit costs puts me about $120K. I'm seeing some Valiant 40's now listed about $100K range. With $50K refit that still puts me at $150K. Am I way off? FWIW, I would prefer a 37 or maybe a 38, but it seems tough enough to find enough headroom that I may have to go up to 40 or even 42.

As for the P424, the one I looked at wasn't bad, but even the broker (who liked them) felt they would leak a good bit over time. He felt they were a great open ocean layout, but when I explained I'd be using it at least five years and wanted to have the option to cross oceans, he started recommending other boats - that he did not have in inventory. My research on the internet seems to indicate they are borderline for the use from a wear and tear standpoint. I read about shelves (which are used to strengthen the hull) coming apart, bulkheads separating, oil-canning, etc. I'm open to contrary opinions - they certainly hit the price point nicely and I like the layout.

I plan to check out the Tayana 42s and Cabo Ricos (expensive), just haven't found one local yet to nose around on. I'll add the Calibers and Southern Cross 39 to my search.

I am by nature frugal (please read: cheap) and my need for all the bells and whistles is pretty basic. OTOH I confess to leaning toward the position of saying it's better to pay your money up front and have the right sailing machine/home so you can enjoy the actual experience and stay on the hook, than save a few dollars and want for a comfortable place to sleep and live for several years. That, and I screwed up and let the Admiral see a Passport in person this week. :)

As always, I welcome your input.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Just wanted to round out the forum. The Caliber looks great, I've checked out several online and hope to get to see one for real in the next few weeks. Also checking out the Passport 37 after everyone urged me to not worry so much about teak decks.

I especially appreciate the point that I can live with teak better than a short roof.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Still liking the Passports and Calibers - hope to find a Caliber to check out soon - they look nice on the net anyway. The Bristol 41 looks nice, I assume you mean the Center Cockpit?

How much does the shin-ectomy cost? Might be cheaper ...
 

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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Hmmm ... good to know about the limited galley. We like to cook, as well. I like the look of the Caliber, but have yet to actually get on one. Does the Passport 40 compare well, or are you referring to the Passport 41/42?

Anyone ever read anything about adding the swim step to a 38?

I got on another Valiant 40 the other day and confirmed my earlier observations of them ... nice boat with tiny berths and a skosch too short. Headroom maybe 6'2 and berth less than 6'.

The Passport has a slightly better PHRF rating and points a bit higher from what I've read.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I know this is a few months later, but I always feel there should be follow-ups on these posts for folks like me who are researching ...

I've checked out the Passport 40 and Tayana 42 with center cockpit - no luck yet finding an aft cockpit Tayana or Caliber to get on, but have a chance to check out a Caliber new on the market this weekend.

My research has found the Tayana 42 is a very nice boat, sells about $20 - $30k less than the Passport according to BUC values assuming similar condition, equipment, etc. They are both just a hair more than 6'3" interiors. The Tayana center cockpit fails on the height for me in the cockpit - the boom comes across at about 5'10". This seems both dangerous and inconvenient (bimini would have to fit under) for me to deal with at 6'3". The PHRF ratings put the Passort 40 (141) fastest, Caliber 38 (150) a few seconds behind that (with slightly less pointing ability), and the Tayana supposedly a 150 rating but that probably thanks to much more sail area. None of them are rocket ships.

The Tayana and Passport both have beautiful interiors though.

As for the original point of the thread ... leaning toward just living with the teak decks if I have to. It's all about trade-offs and the Caliber may or may not fit the bill. I'll try to update if I get more info from visiting a Caliber.

Prices seem to vary a good bit, but BUC would tend to indicate in today's market a decent Tayana 42 will go for maybe $100K, a Passport 40 $120K, and a Caliber seems to go along with the Passport with maybe a bit more pricey - LRC version is way more than I care to spend. I know it all varies by region, condition, seller's circumstances, etc., but the point of this post is to report what I've observed in a few months of research. Yes, there is a beautiful, heavily customized P-40 listed for over $200k here in Seattle and I've been on it, but it has dropped about 25% and still sits at the dock. A Tayana 42 here I've also been on has dropped $25k and still sits at the dock ... now at $115K. If you are in the market and want more info on either, PM me and I'll fill you in but both seem to be potentially good boats for the right buyer. We would likely have put an offer in on the Tayana if it weren't for my concerns with the boom height.

I'd like to buy in the next year, but I still have three years before I actually head out. I'm still curious about the notion that any of these boats can't be bought and outfitted for $150K, but that may be my inexperience talking. That, and this has definately turned into a buyer's market.

Any observations are welcome and still very open to other boat suggestions. I must be getting closer to actually buying as I keep hearing that I'll know the right boat when I see it and feel it, and the Passport 40 is clearly the boat that has hit me that way so far.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Wow, just throwing out some prices got the thread going again. :)

I appreciate any and all input. Cruisingdad, I am curious when you bought your boat at $140K? Did it have any major problems at that price? I readily admit that looking at a few boats is a total crapshoot for trying to set value in any market - probably moreso than ever in today's economy. I've been nosing around boats for a few years now and I'd say there is a striking difference in broker attitudes here in Seattle since the economic downturn began. Pre-economy problems brokers would confidently assure me how the boat was worth asking and was a "steal." Now I generally find that within 15 minutes of serious discussion (including discovering I have a solid job and intent to buy) the price begins dropping all on it's own - usually by tens of thousands. I wouldn't claim that is the case on all boats - I'm sure much depends on how interested the seller is in moving the boat - but the only constant I know in every case is me.

In doing research on BUC and Soldboat.com I found that they are both based on reported sale prices - so I would think the one should be relatively as accurate as the other. Soldboat.com seems to only include broker-reported sales to Yachtworld while BUC is based on all sales, which may very likely drive down the BUC average since non-broker sales will generally be cheaper. I suggest also that for those willing to walk docks, etc., BUC may potentially be more accurate overall as it would include a larger sample-size.

Having said all of that, I should also clarify something I should have included with the latest post now under discussion ... I expect to put at least 30 - 40% addiitional into any boat I plan to sail away in - so the values I posted are for average condition ... the Tayana I suspect I could get for around $100K already has about $30K work I know I would have to do/get done. My mental ball park budget would have a completed value of $140 - $150K.

Please don't take any of this reply to be argumentative. I really appreciate the input and I fully recognize that I can only guesstimate most of this stuff based on research and limited exposure. The only way to really know will of course be when I make an offer, buy a boat, and discover all the unknown work awaiting me. But I do have to temper the welcome advice by factoring in the current economic climate, my own patience and negotiating skills, and whatever I can learn by talking to people and walking docks.

Melrna - thanks for suggesting the Morgan. I'll check it out further. It seems like I've looked into the Morgans before, but I can't recall why I ended up dropping it. I'll go look into it some more.

Time for me to run, but please give any feedback you can. It is appreciated.
 
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