SailNet Community banner

1 - 20 of 66 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Looking for some feedback on the attached pictures. Here's the story:

I wasn't present for the haulout, but I am guessing there was no foam pads on the slings. This damage represents gross incompetence in my opinion.

The hull damages are inexcusable; this was a $7.5K awlgrip job completed less than 5 years ago.

Will it have to totally repainted to repair properly? There are 4 areas of damage - one forward and aft on each side of the hull from the lifting straps. I've only uploaded pics of the worst area.

I am going to talk to them in person again, but I was not confident when the owner indicated they would polish/buff the scratches prior to re-launch.

The boat was hauled at a reputable marine yard - they do lots of awlgrip...one would think they'd have know better.

Jason
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
I didn't have that problem...

...but when he was loading the boat on my trailer he did scratch the keel a little bit on the trailer which is really no problem, it buffed right out. However, there was no padding used to go between the straps and my boat. $7/ft wasn't too bad at all, and $68 to take the mast down.
 

Attachments

·
Midwest Puddle Pirate
Joined
·
2,160 Posts
Wow. I didn't realize you could buff paint that had been removed. I'm trying to figure out what caused the diagonal scratches.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
19,488 Posts
Looking for some feedback on the attached pictures. Here's the story:

I wasn't present for the haulout, but I am guessing there was no foam pads on the slings. This damage represents gross incompetence in my opinion.

The hull damages are inexcusable; this was a $7.5K awlgrip job completed less than 5 years ago.

Will it have to totally repainted to repair properly? There are 4 areas of damage - one forward and aft on each side of the hull from the lifting straps. I've only uploaded pics of the worst area.

I am going to talk to them in person again, but I was not confident when the owner indicated they would polish/buff the scratches prior to re-launch.

The boat was hauled at a reputable marine yard - they do lots of awlgrip...one would think they'd have know better.

Jason
This doesn't look good to me at all. It's as if there was a lot of crap on the straps (perhaps from the previous lift?) Can't blame you for being upset.

Whether it will buff out or not remains to be seen... certainly try that at the yard's expense. Localized repairs to Awlgrip paint jobs are difficult/impossible to do well - even by the experts.

I wish you luck dealing with this.
 

·
moderate?
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
It will only "buff out" if there is NO damage to the paint. If the scratches are IN the paint...the ONLY fix is a complete new paint job if the paint is 5 years old. We couldn't even get an unnoticable match on our 1 month old awlgrip when the yard that painted it tried afted scratching it. They re-did the entire side of the boat
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Wow. I didn't realize you could buff paint that had been removed. I'm trying to figure out what caused the diagonal scratches.
The diagonal scratches are from the lifting straps sliding up to their final positions as the hull is being lifted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
It will only "buff out" if there is NO damage to the paint. If the scratches are IN the paint...the ONLY fix is a complete new paint job if the paint is 5 years old.
Yeah, there sure is plenty of damage to the paint; these are NOT surface scratches - 1/16 - 1/8" gouges in the area I showed in the pictures.

I am drafting my letter to the boatyard now....sigh. It is always something.
 

·
Seinor Member
Joined
·
276 Posts
To be honest with you

I have never heard of foam pads placed on lifting straps. What I do is pressure wash the straps before a lift, if they have any crud on them. Then I have the crew put paper on the straps for extra protection. Ant strap can slip a bit depending on the keel. If there is a fast taper up from the keel, we will allways tie the straps to reduce slippage.

Fair Winds
Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
I have never heard of foam pads placed on lifting straps. What I do is pressure wash the straps before a lift, if they have any crud on them. Then I have the crew put paper on the straps for extra protection. Ant strap can slip a bit depending on the keel. If there is a fast taper up from the keel, we will allways tie the straps to reduce slippage.

Fair Winds
Dave
I think the point here is that you do have your crew put SOMETHING on the lifting straps to protect the hullsides - especially with an Awlgripped hull.

The straps were tied, and in fact, the ties created more damage.

Dave, are you saying that the yard should not be responsible for this damage? How would you have handled in your marina? Would you have notfied the customer?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
A proper haul technique

Btw, here is a picture of my boat the last time it was hauled (different marina). If you look closely, the light blue area on the straps are actually foam pads that were wrapped around / taped to the lifting straps. The foam pads were new or in like new condition. (The travelift...well, not so new).

But, the most important thing to note....no damage to the paint using this process.
 

Attachments

·
Seinor Member
Joined
·
276 Posts
Hello again Jason

First of all I agree with Cam about touching up Awlgrip. It just wont match. Yes you can buff out Awlgrip. The problem is, you will remove the clear coat and the shine will not last. When Awlgrip is applied there is a clear coat in the paint, as the paint cures the clear coat rises to the surface. This gives the shine. Once the clear coat is removed, no more gloss unless kept waxed. The scratches on your boat are through the Awlgrip. IE no paint there.

At my marina when a customer signs the work order, they are signing a release also. Scratched paint on hulls are excluded from our liability. Now thats not to say that we wont fix scratched paint, I find it better to fix it then argue with a customer. Most are understanding. In the picture of you boat in the lift, I notice the pads. We use carpet along with the paper. It takes about 6 months for Awlgrip to fully cure. We are extra careful.
Remember fenders can scratch Awlgrip.
As for my boat, I would never paint it. I just had a new gelcoat job done. It gives me piece of mind when I come crashing into a dock and hit that fender board, that I can just buff out a scratch. If It's a deep scratch I can fill it and reapply gelcoat.
How's that for a political answer. I talked my way around the whole subject and never told you anything.

Fair Winds
Dave:rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
Paint and Travelifts

Hi Jason,

What I would do is take some before lift out photos and after lift out photos and tell the yard you want it to look like the before pics. If they balk, you may want to get an estimate from a reputable painter and present it to them. You may also want to ask for their insurance carrier and speak to yours as well. Do they spray in that yard? If the paint job is five years old, perhaps they used Awlcraft 2000 instead of Awlgrip. This paint is much easier to work with and touch up. It is still very hard to get a good match though as time and sun change the paint quite a bit.

My haulout drill now for my Awlcraft 2000 painted boat includes always being there when they haul. I am on the deck as the slings are positioned. I pre position 4 thick terry cloth towels which I have put gromets in on top with some small lines tied to the rails in the position of the sling. I make sure the towel sits between the sling and the paint all the way down the hull on all four points. Sometimes the yard has to lower the slings a couple of times before I'm happy. Never had any sling damage since I started this.

Let us know the name of this yard and how you settle up with them.

Good luck,

121Guy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,172 Posts
I would think any reputable yard would repair the topside paint damage to your satisfaction - doesn't make for good dock talk..
I know some will say Awlgrip cannot be buffed without consequential damage but that is not entirely true. It is better to buff that area(s) rather than repaint them as you will never get a proper color match with a 5 yr old paint job. As far as buffing, it can remove the clear coating which rises to the surface of a cured paint job but if done properly, the loss will be minimal and easily mitigated by application of clear coat. All of which may be moot in that the scratches appear to penetrate through to the glass and gelcoat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Yes you can buff out Awlgrip. The problem is, you will remove the clear coat and the shine will not last.
Yes, that's a non-option in my book. No way. Once the clear coat is burned away...the finish is done...it'll look like crap.

At my marina when a customer signs the work order, they are signing a release also. Scratched paint on hulls are excluded from our liability. Now thats not to say that we wont fix scratched paint, I find it better to fix it then argue with a customer.
I don't argue that point, but it's like taking your car to the automatic car wash...."we're not responsible".

From my perspective, this all boils down to a standard of care that a reasonable person would apply.

Remember fenders can scratch Awlgrip.
Yep...I have fleece covers on ALL my fenders.

Thanks for your perspective, I definitely appreciate it...keeping me grounded!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,289 Posts
I wasn't present for the haul of my current boat but I did check and there were no noticeable marks from the straps. The yard I used last year had long strips of something like packing wrap that were abut half again as wide as the strap. As the boat was being lifted, they inserted these strips between the strap and hull from below the waterline. This was on a cruddy gray hull on a 1988 boat, so I just assumed it must be standard operating proceedure, Im sure I wasn't getting any special treatment. It seemed to me to be cheap insurance against the kind of issue you have experienced and would save the yard money in the long run. The strips would be good for several hauls and the cost of one paint job would pay for a several season supply.

Good Luck with getting your issue resolved. I hope you can come to an equitable resolution.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Hi Jason,

What I would do is take some before lift out photos and after lift out photos and tell the yard you want it to look like the before pics. If they balk, you may want to get an estimate from a reputable painter and present it to them. You may also want to ask for their insurance carrier and speak to yours as well. Do they spray in that yard? If the paint job is five years old, perhaps they used Awlcraft 2000 instead of Awlgrip. This paint is much easier to work with and touch up. It is still very hard to get a good match though as time and sun change the paint quite a bit.
It's Awlgrip....5 coats of Flag Blue + 2 clear coat layers...it was done in winter of 2006.

They do a fair amount of spray here...right now there is a Lyman Morse in the booth, it followed a Morris 36 into the booth...so there ARE competent folk in the shop...but I think the travellift guys were off their game that day they hauled me.

I'm going to give BoatUS a call this week to give em a heads up. I will wait to hear a response from the yard before I go further up the chain...it's my strong desire to handle this privately and amicably...

My haulout drill now for my Awlcraft 2000 painted boat includes always being there when they haul. I am on the deck as the slings are positioned. I pre position 4 thick terry cloth towels which I have put gromets in on top with some small lines tied to the rails in the position of the sling. I make sure the towel sits between the sling and the paint all the way down the hull on all four points. Sometimes the yard has to lower the slings a couple of times before I'm happy. Never had any sling damage since I started this.
Yeah, I asked them to call me an hour prior to haul...but I couldn't get out of the office that day. This boat has been hauled at least 4-5 times since I had it painted and never had an issue...it was always well protected from the slings. I'll know better next time.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,777 Posts
I guess..

I guess you guys have a different view of "reputable" than we do in Maine. That is a hack job and is the most disgusting thing I've seen in a while.

Had they been dredging the harbor with their travel lift prior to hauling your boat? Sorry but it's time to have the conversation and if no luck there a lawyer and a new boat yard..

This is how most reputable yards launch and haul boats. I have never even had a small scratch..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Awlgrip Scratches

The marina where I keep my boat (Old Bay Marina in Baltimore) powerwashes the straps and then covers the straps with two layers of heavy 6 mil plastic wrap.

Sailboat bottoms come in all shapes and odd angles and straps do slip sometimes until they settle in. Looks like your marina's straps had sand/gravel or barnacle shells on them. My marina would never lift a boat without washing or covering the straps.

Awlgrip is very difficult to repair - next time have your hull done in Awlcraft, as it can easily be repaired and looks almost as good a Awlgrip. Do not be too hard on your marina - they are lifting many tons with two cloth straps - pretty amazing when you think about it. I very dangerous job for a few dollars per foot!

Dr. George
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Maine - now that's what I am talking about. Can you send that crew down to the Chesapeake? I mean....that lift actually had tread on its tires!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
311 Posts
I've had good luck with a 3m product called Finess-it. There's a hand and machine version. I used the hand version. But this was on minor scratches that abraded the surface but did not penetrate to the primer. And the paint was Awlgrip II - a bit more forgiving. They buffed out, but did leave a slight 'halo' affect noticable at 3 ft away.

I'd say get a new paint job from the yard or elsewhere.

How's your insurance - don't forget it's your Ins. Co's job to work things out on your behalf if you're properly covered.
 
1 - 20 of 66 Posts
Top