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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All...

My new to me Scampi 30 (its 32 years old) came rigged with a baby stay. As far as I can tell, it is not original, and was retrofitted in at some point. I think this because the work is a little sloppy on the chain plate weld and also the cut in the deck is not terribly square.

The thing is a pain in the rear. It takes up a lot of space on the deck, the head sail fouls in it on every tack and I have not even tried the spinnaker yet. Last September people just kept tripping on it.

I finally took it off and the boat spent the winter with the mast up and no baby stay.

My question is, do I need it and, if not, is it worth the aggravation for the extra shaping it theoretically lets me do for the main? It occured to me as I was getting it ready for rebedding that I could just remove the chain plate and epoxy up the hole. Then i don't have a few inches of steel pocking up that can hurt someone.

Any comments would be appreciated, thanks!
 

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Telstar 28
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It may be there to prevent the mast from pumping, and if that is the case, you'll probably want to keep it.
 

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If a pair of stays are holding the mast from the front of the mast, it might be added later. But if all your stays are in line or at the back of your mast, it is original.
 

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You can set the babystay up as removable with a quick release fitting. leave the babystay secured near/at the base of the mast for general sailing, should you find yourself beating in a sea where the mast exhibits any pumping, put the babystay into use.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'll take a closer look at where the stays land. I do recall thre are two points on the deck where they land. Two stays come to one point and a third to the other (on each side of course).

What exactly does "pumping" mean?
 

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....What exactly does "pumping" mean?
Pumping..rythmic flexing, a tendency to repeatedly bend forward and then return to the steady position. You want to control pumping as you run the risk the pumping could get out of hand, i.e take the mast so far out-of-column that it collapses.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Pumping..rythmic flexing, a tendency to repeatedly bend forward and then return to the steady position. You want to control pumping as you run the risk the pumping could get out of hand, i.e take the mast so far out-of-column that it collapses.
Is this something that is very obvious? Is it just an upwind thing?
 

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It also leads to the mast fatiguing from the cycle of flexing... and that leads to the mast failing.
Pumping..rythmic flexing, a tendency to repeatedly bend forward and then return to the steady position. You want to control pumping as you run the risk the pumping could get out of hand, i.e take the mast so far out-of-column that it collapses.
 

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Is this something that is very obvious? Is it just an upwind thing?
Pumping would be obvious if you sight up the mast, not necessarily so from the cockpit. I believe that it is only an upwind situation, as the boat doesn't usually pound on other points of sail.
 

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Baby Stays = Another use

I have not heard of baby stays in any other context other than their use with trailerable sailboats like mine.
When trailering, the mast is carried along the length of the boat from bow to stern, at the launch ramp the mast is raised. Here is when Baby Stays come into play. I use a mast raising brake winch to raise the mast up, the mast is hinged at the base and the winch is on a gin pole which is secured by one end on the bow cleat and the other connected to a bail on the mast and I winch it up with the brake winch. The Baby Stays are connected to prevent the mast from swinging either to port or to starboard while raising the mast so that the mast base does not get twisted from 30' of mast torque twisting it. Once the mast is raised and pinned in place it is safe to remove the Baby Stays. I find they getin my way when up on the deck so I always remove them, but I know of several others who are a bit shorter than me that pass under them effortlessly so are not a hazard but moreso, an extra grab hold when on deck for them. The shrouds, if tightened to specs (as mine are)prevent any undue pumping that could take place so mast pumping is not an issue in my case. I am not familiar with your boat and set-up but I thought I might shed another perspective on the purpose of Baby Stays.
 

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Technically, what you're using are baby shrouds, not stays. Stays support a mast fore-and-aft... shrouds support it athwartships... :D

I have not heard of baby stays in any other context other than their use with trailerable sailboats like mine.
When trailering, the mast is carried along the length of the boat from bow to stern, at the launch ramp the mast is raised. Here is when Baby Stays come into play. I use a mast raising brake winch to raise the mast up, the mast is hinged at the base and the winch is on a gin pole which is secured by one end on the bow cleat and the other connected to a bail on the mast and I winch it up with the brake winch. The Baby Stays are connected to prevent the mast from swinging either to port or to starboard while raising the mast so that the mast base does not get twisted from 30' of mast torque twisting it. Once the mast is raised and pinned in place it is safe to remove the Baby Stays. I find they getin my way when up on the deck so I always remove them, but I know of several others who are a bit shorter than me that pass under them effortlessly so are not a hazard but moreso, an extra grab hold when on deck for them. The shrouds, if tightened to specs (as mine are)prevent any undue pumping that could take place so mast pumping is not an issue in my case. I am not familiar with your boat and set-up but I thought I might shed another perspective on the purpose of Baby Stays.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The scampi has one upper and one lower per side going to the same chainplate. The babystay is original to the rig and is the only forward support of the mast except for the headstay. I think you should keep it. The first picture on this page of a Scampi shows this.
I checked today and unlike the Scampi in these pics, mine has the upper and lower that go to the same chain plate, but also has two additional shrouds that go to an additional chain plate that is a foot or so aft of the other one. But there are no shrouds that come down forward of the mast step.

I also spoke with the PO and he told me that the baby stay is original.

So yes, I should keep it. But mine is not like that one in the pictures. It has been replaced with a line and block system, I guess because someone wanted to be able to adjust it. I'm also wondering why two additional shrouds were added aft of the original ones.

Also, I see my mounting system for the chain plates is very different that that shown here, from what little I can see. I was going to start a new thread on that, since I have a very screwy system that I don't like. In a nutshell, one of the shrouds secures to the chain plate cover, not the actual chain plate and the chain plate cover bolts through the deck to a mount under the deck. This all transfers stress to the deck and causes leaks. At least I assume thats the reason for the waterfall under the starboard chain plate cover.

Thanks very much for the link to the pictures! I have been having a very hard time finding information about my Scampi and every bit helps. I'll DL these pics for reference in case the link goes away.

Thanks everyone, I guess I'm stuck with my baby stay :(

When would it be safe to not use it? Can I remove it for sailing in lighter air or should I keep it all the time?
 

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I'd keep it all the time. If I were you, I think I would try and revert to the original rig. If you google Scampi 30 you can find all sorts of stuff about the boat - there is even an owners club in Scandinavia and google has an option for translation. When I was looking for a boat I looked sereiously at Scampis as there were a few locally (Victoria B.C.) The Scampi is a fast boat that's fun to sail and is designed to race and did so very well to many championships including world 1/2 ton winner at least once. If I find anything interesting I'll email you the links.
 

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Over the years I have had many requests to remove baby stays. After checking with mast builders and engineers, certain babystays can be removed. You would need to add pre-bend (mast slightly forward at the partners) before tuning and tune till the mast bows forward in relation to the partners and the masthead. I would be nice to move the tackle off the babystay and add it to the backstay to adjust the draft of the main, but not necessary. Prebend can also have positive effects on mainsail trim and keeps the mast from inverting.
The photos seem to show a hefty spar for the boat which is also a plus for removing the babystay as well.
 

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The reason they may have added a line-and-block to the babystay is to help with mast bend. :) Is the scampi a masthead rigged boat by any chance???

I checked today and unlike the Scampi in these pics, mine has the upper and lower that go to the same chain plate, but also has two additional shrouds that go to an additional chain plate that is a foot or so aft of the other one. But there are no shrouds that come down forward of the mast step.

I also spoke with the PO and he told me that the baby stay is original.

So yes, I should keep it. But mine is not like that one in the pictures. It has been replaced with a line and block system, I guess because someone wanted to be able to adjust it. I'm also wondering why two additional shrouds were added aft of the original ones.

Also, I see my mounting system for the chain plates is very different that that shown here, from what little I can see. I was going to start a new thread on that, since I have a very screwy system that I don't like. In a nutshell, one of the shrouds secures to the chain plate cover, not the actual chain plate and the chain plate cover bolts through the deck to a mount under the deck. This all transfers stress to the deck and causes leaks. At least I assume thats the reason for the waterfall under the starboard chain plate cover.

Thanks very much for the link to the pictures! I have been having a very hard time finding information about my Scampi and every bit helps. I'll DL these pics for reference in case the link goes away.

Thanks everyone, I guess I'm stuck with my baby stay :(

When would it be safe to not use it? Can I remove it for sailing in lighter air or should I keep it all the time?
 

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... I guess I'm stuck with my baby stay :(

When would it be safe to not use it? Can I remove it for sailing in lighter air or should I keep it all the time?
If you read the post above explaining the purpose of a babystay and when it is needed, you can answer these questions, and any more you can think of...
 

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Absolutely keep it. And make sure it is in good shape. I wouldn’t dare to use a spinnaker on a Scampi without a baby stay. I was crewing on a Scampi during an extremely windy race and we snapped the baby stay. The outcome was far from pretty.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The reason they may have added a line-and-block to the babystay is to help with mast bend. :) Is the scampi a masthead rigged boat by any chance???
It is indeed. And the back stay is adjustable. And as was suggested, I am looking to get the shrouds back to their original design. Looks like I am stuck with the baby stay. More work for the fore deck crew walking the sail accross the deck on every tack!
 
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