SailNet Community banner

41 - 60 of 60 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,069 Posts
Grew up in Manhattan. Before going to Boston for training went to Stuyvesant HS, Columbia then NYU. Wife says as we drive toward NYC my voice changes, the speed increases and the sentences get shorter and clipped. My driving changes becoming much more aggressive. My walking gets faster and my posture changes with my shoulder thrown back once we’re there. She says even the way I sit changes. She says it’s funny there’s a city boy in me which never went away. She likes the America’s Home Town (Plymouth) boy better.
Was in RIM 2, and SDS as a student. Had my own feebie as a tail. Now pretty libertarian. Dislike Orange Julius because he’s incompetent. Highly skilled in running a cult. Not so much in managerial skills. Think the ability to manipulate minds on both sides has gotten very sophisticated. Pessimistic that trajectory will change post covid. Question remains if we will lose democracy or if the shift in demographics will occur first.
Think the “we are all in it together “ campaign is falling badly. If your going to have one country
All government business should be done in one language.
Business should be encouraged to use that language alone as well.
Voters should be fluent in that language. Voter disenfranchisement must be curtailed.
(My grandparents spoke languages other than English at home, my parents used foreign phrases frequently in talking in the house. But once we left the house it was English. The ghetto-ization of all urban centers in this country divides us.)
Taxes should be used only to generate income not influence behavior. That would rid the vast majority of lobbyists of a job.
The Bible tells us to not bear false witness. Believe after listening to the dynamic between Fauci and Trump/Pence and the revisionist history propagated on Fox there needs to be some instrument to curtail this. As a child I had to put a quarter in a jar if I fibbed. Think like in futball(soccer) or hockey while running for office you should get flagged for gross lies (use the fed courts for this). After so many transgressions you’re DQ’d from the elections. After assuming office your public pronouncements are vetted before release if they are persistently untrue. We’ve gotten to the point (right or left) that we treat all politicians like lawyers. “How do you know they’re lying? Their lips are moving”. This has undercut any feeling of civic responsibility in the community.
My first wife was Flemish. It’s a real small place. They do get by with two languages like the eastern Canadians. But there’s a incredibly long memory and still a sense of us or them. Belgium has worked it out but we’re still in the phase of overt racism toward Latin speakers and non Caucasians. My first love was Altagracia. She was brilliant. But continuously dissed and her insights discounted because of her accent. See post covid chauvinism greatly increasing. They (latins/blacks/urban/old/fat/chronically ill) die. We get a cold and move on. A true us v them setup.
To confound this further believe the post covid world will increase income inequality. 80% of precovid job loss was due to the artificial intelligence/robotics revolution. 20% to outsourcing. This primarily effected the two lower quintiles. Now with the history of social distancing these tools will be increasingly applied to the middle quintiles. Much of what accountants, lawyers, mid level administrators and even doctors do can be done without direct human contact or input on a day to day. The inequities between those holding capital and those supplying labor will increase as sole proprietorships disappear. Small practices in any field (accounting, law, medicine, engineering,food services, you name it) are dinosaurs. A post doc graduate will be a wage slave with no union.
Against this dystopian outlook is the human spirit and intrinsic desire for human dignity. Only hope and pray for that to win out.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
11,803 Posts
Jeff,

I didn’t mean to make it seem I didn’t like NYC. Nothing further from the truth. All you said is true.

It’s a choice. Just like buying a boat. Some lije production boats. Some like unique ones. no one boat is perfect.

The traits which appeal to you may be the traits which are deal breakers for others.

I have lived in Rochester, Minn, Philadelphia suburbs, ocean City , NJ, and suburbs of Baltimore . And work in Washington, DC. each are very different from the other. I like access to culture, to water , but don’t want to be surrounded by people. I like greenery, animals , and quiet. For these reasons I would choose to live a non urban lifestyle and when I retire probably move to the Eastern shore of MD. Close to museums and culture, but far from crowds. I prefer peace and quiet to live like my sailboat has. I prefer nature to concrete. But remember these are just my preferences.

Having been a world traveler and live a number of places my perspective may differ from yours. DC is much more international than NYC lacking ethnic neighborhoods like NYC. The most incredible Chinatown is in SF. The business center NYC, , modd sad t historic from the Revolution, Philly. Technological Huston, Seattle. Cleanest big city , Chicago. Density: NYC,

We all choose what best fits us with no one city being or living space, better than the other.

In the area I live some people think DC is the center of the universe . Bit many others in the country are adversive to politics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,937 Posts
Jeff,

I didn’t mean to make it seem I didn’t like NYC. Nothing further from the truth. All you said is true.

It’s a choice. Just like buying a boat. Some lije production boats. Some like unique ones. no one boat is perfect.

The traits which appeal to you may be the traits which are deal breakers for others.

I have lived in Rochester, Minn, Philadelphia suburbs, ocean City , NJ, and suburbs of Baltimore . And work in Washington, DC. each are very different from the other. I like access to culture, to water , but don’t want to be surrounded by people. I like greenery, animals , and quiet. For these reasons I would choose to live a non urban lifestyle and when I retire probably move to the Eastern shore of MD. Close to museums and culture, but far from crowds. I prefer peace and quiet to live like my sailboat has. I prefer nature to concrete. But remember these are just my preferences.

Having been a world traveler and live a number of places my perspective may differ from yours. DC is much more international than NYC lacking ethnic neighborhoods like NYC. The most incredible Chinatown is in SF. The business center NYC, , modd sad t historic from the Revolution, Philly. Technological Huston, Seattle. Cleanest big city , Chicago. Density: NYC,

We all choose what best fits us with no one city being or living space, better than the other.

In the area I live some people think DC is the center of the universe . Bit many others in the country are adversive to politics.
You know the expression... I can't miss you if you don't go away?

I love the great outdoors and the peace and beauty of nature. I hate loud and noise as well. But I move between urban and rural as a "lifestyle". My sailing is case in point. I go from on the grid to off it and I miss the other all the time and appreciate it even more. Suburbia to me is the worst... and I grew up there. I have traveled pretty extensively in my younger days. I have lived in Europe and the Caribbean. That kind of travel is too difficult for me at this age. But I don't fancy flying and staying in hotels either.

I am curious why you think DC is more international than NYC? Embassies?
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
11,803 Posts
You know the expression... I can't miss you if you don't go away?

I love the great outdoors and the peace and beauty of nature. I hate loud and noise as well. But I move between urban and rural as a "lifestyle". My sailing is case in point. I go from on the grid to off it and I miss the other all the time and appreciate it even more. Suburbia to me is the worst... and I grew up there. I have traveled pretty extensively in my younger days. I have lived in Europe and the Caribbean. That kind of travel is too difficult for me at this age. But I don't fancy flying and staying in hotels either.

I am curious why you think DC is more international than NYC? Embassies?
To answer your question I may have to making some generalization which is what they are.

NYC, Boston, Philly were born of the immigration movement in the US from the revolutionary days. Waves of immigrants from different parts of Europe, Russia settled as they came in through the ports of entry. To be able to come into the US many were required to have sponsors. Also people settled in neighborhoods where common languages were spoken.

The three cities I mentioned still to this day have large ethnicc neighborhoods. Jewish, Iranian, Irish, Latin areas.

DC on the other hand a more modern city really does not have these same divisions. While you may not see it from your perch, DC being the nations capital has immigrants from all areas of the world. Governments in other countries not only have embassies in DC but many non US citizen come to DC area. It is less intimidating than NYC because of size. It is the center of US federal government and that includes military. Government agencies are all centered in DC. State Department headquartered there. FBI/ CIA/ NSA centered there. National free museums and cemeteries. National monuments of wars fought. Etc.

I have hired people in many areas of the country. DC the most challenging because of the different languages and cultures. At one of my HOR large food courts we have a map in the kitchen of the world with colored pins representing the home country of the over 120 employees. They are distributed from everywhere. Language is a diifficult part of the hiring process. Not just English and Spanish. Add 40 more languages.
Hispanic could mean the standard Peurto RICO, Mexico, but also means any central or South American Country and Spain itself.

NY rs still gravitate toward their ethnic neighborhoods. DC for the most part doesn’t have them.

You also mentioned suburbs. The suburbs of NY are still very crowded. Stores, and land included vs the suburbs of say Baltimore. My marina is flanked by a horse farm. My house a state park. Yet I’m still just outside the Baltimore beltway. You have to travel a long way from NY to achieve that kind of country/ rural setting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,791 Posts
It seems everyone is shying away from saying it so I will.

I HATE NYC.

And DC.

In fact I HATE all cities.

Big towns I mere despise, but can see some utility.

Now I await all the Progressives to come to my rescue and note that my view is as valuable as all others.

Popcorn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,069 Posts
Think there’s some “grass is greener....” functioning here. I grew up in Manhattan. Wife grew up in a Boston ‘burb. She loves NYC. I miss the 24h nature of it but not the logistics of living in a city. Even view Boston as a town and only see NY, Chicago and LA as really being cities. The rest are towns of various sizes. Looking at demographics the young seem to like living in cities and large towns (Boston, SF, Seattle, Phoenix etc.). Don’t see that going away.
My state just stopped giving out permits for any new construction. Even with low mortgage rates and home improvement rates don’t see first time buyers rushing in after covid is over. The furloughs, firings and across the board pay cuts will be remembered for a long time. Similarly don’t see the home improvement market rebounding until home resale values become positive.
Back in the Great Depression feds stepped in. WPA and interstates projects gave wages not hand outs. Also had a huge keysian multiplier effect. Think light rail, green energy, rebuilding decayed infrastructure are the way forward. Also like the army a way for us to work together and break down the walls of bias and prejudice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,937 Posts
To answer your question I may have to making some generalization which is what they are.

NYC, Boston, Philly were born of the immigration movement in the US from the revolutionary days. Waves of immigrants from different parts of Europe, Russia settled as they came in through the ports of entry. To be able to come into the US many were required to have sponsors. Also people settled in neighborhoods where common languages were spoken.

The three cities I mentioned still to this day have large ethnicc neighborhoods. Jewish, Iranian, Irish, Latin areas.

DC on the other hand a more modern city really does not have these same divisions. While you may not see it from your perch, DC being the nations capital has immigrants from all areas of the world. Governments in other countries not only have embassies in DC but many non US citizen come to DC area. It is less intimidating than NYC because of size. It is the center of US federal government and that includes military. Government agencies are all centered in DC. State Department headquartered there. FBI/ CIA/ NSA centered there. National free museums and cemeteries. National monuments of wars fought. Etc.

I have hired people in many areas of the country. DC the most challenging because of the different languages and cultures. At one of my HOR large food courts we have a map in the kitchen of the world with colored pins representing the home country of the over 120 employees. They are distributed from everywhere. Language is a diifficult part of the hiring process. Not just English and Spanish. Add 40 more languages.
Hispanic could mean the standard Peurto RICO, Mexico, but also means any central or South American Country and Spain itself.

NY rs still gravitate toward their ethnic neighborhoods. DC for the most part doesn’t have them.

You also mentioned suburbs. The suburbs of NY are still very crowded. Stores, and land included vs the suburbs of say Baltimore. My marina is flanked by a horse farm. My house a state park. Yet I’m still just outside the Baltimore beltway. You have to travel a long way from NY to achieve that kind of country/ rural setting.
Dave I just have to disagree with your post. I don't think you are familiar with the suburbs if NYC. Northport,25 miles from Times Square has horse farms, working farms. YES there is suburban sprawl which is not unlike that in Boston.... it's just larger because the NYC metro area is so geographically large and includes something like 20MM people. Bear Mountain State Park is less than 40 miles from Times Square. Sure there is urban density but there are farms and immense parks, huge estates... It's not all urban sprawl.

I have no problem with ethnic neighborhoods.... Why not? Cultures including cuisine is preserved there and this include every culture from around the world NYC has 800 languages spoken.

https://www.businessinsider.com/queens-languages-map-2017-2

NY was and continues to be a main portal for people from around the world. And yes there are ethnic neighborhoods... but there is plenty of mixing of cultures as well.

DC has 1/10 the population of NYC and simply does not have the culture or diversity that NYC has.

If you had lived in NYC as I have... born in Manhattan and lived in Brooklyn, Bronx and Manhattan and the LI, NJ and northern suburbs you might have a different view.

YES I am a NYer and most people know nothing is comparable...
 

·
Registered
Hunter 386
Joined
·
553 Posts
It seems everyone is shying away from saying it so I will.

I HATE NYC.

And DC.

In fact I HATE all cities.

Big towns I mere despise, but can see some utility.

Now I await all the Progressives to come to my rescue and note that my view is as valuable as all others.

Popcorn.
I hate big cities. In fact it took two years for me to be convinced to even visit NYC. But I wouldn't have missed it for the world. Never gonna live there though. Maybe we should think about it as a more rough-around-the-edges Disneyworld?

Now that abandoned government dock in Port Harvey? Life will be back to normal when I can finally tie up there again.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
11,803 Posts
Dave I just have to disagree with your post. I don't think you are familiar with the suburbs if NYC. Northport,25 miles from Times Square has horse farms, working farms. YES there is suburban sprawl which is not unlike that in Boston.... it's just larger because the NYC metro area is so geographically large and includes something like 20MM people. Bear Mountain State Park is less than 40 miles from Times Square. Sure there is urban density but there are farms and immense parks, huge estates... It's not all urban sprawl.

I have no problem with ethnic neighborhoods.... Why not? Cultures including cuisine is preserved there and this include every culture from around the world NYC has 800 languages spoken.

https://www.businessinsider.com/queens-languages-map-2017-2

NY was and continues to be a main portal for people from around the world. And yes there are ethnic neighborhoods... but there is plenty of mixing of cultures as well.

DC has 1/10 the population of NYC and simply does not have the culture or diversity that NYC has.

If you had lived in NYC as I have... born in Manhattan and lived in Brooklyn, Bronx and Manhattan and the LI, NJ and northern suburbs you might have a different view.

YES I am a NYer and most people know nothing is comparable...

With due respect therein lies the problem. Being in the Forrest the trees are not evident. With no other point of reference of course you feel that NY is superior and don’t understand why others don’t recognize it.

Again I love NY. I forgot to mention I lived in Bergen County- Colts Neck for 8 months where my wife was from when my first house was being built. Her family also was from Bayonne....grandfather came in on a ship and worked in the refineries near by. .

The example I was making about the International City was the example you asked why I felt the way I did and didn’t require a defensive counterpoint.
The lack of ethnic neighborhoods is what drives the new international flavor of DC. It doesn’t have the historical ethnic neighborhood of NYC, Boston, and Philly. That was my point. Just because of it overcrowded size doesn’t make NY the leader.

Listen I am glad you feel great about where you live, however I would be careful in the tone that it is superior that’s it’s quality of living is superior to everywhere else.

As I mentioned different people have different criteria and dealbreakers when choosing a boat. No boat come without its pluses and minuses. Where you live is similar. To ignore or feel the need to refute the minuses isn’t necessary.

The size of NY to ME is a dealbreaker minus. I prefer countryside , forrests,
The Chesapeake , the mountains close by, the culture this area has to offer.
Plenty of culture in the DC area too. I don’t want to see places people live 30 stories high. This virus has pointed out the obvious dangers that density is a determining factor in its spread. I want to feel safe from that where I live though this affected all of us. But again that’s for me.

In my particular field you may find it incredible, but NY was never the culinary leader. Despite its many many great restaurants and cuisines it rarely was the cant miss place most culinary or restaurant people needed to go for training or advancement. Not an arguable point, just an observation from my area of expertise. Food service.

You solicited opinions of why I thought the way I did. It isn’t necessary to counter point them. I never have ever though where I lived is superior to everyone else where they live, cause it isn’t. Neither is NYC. Like choosing the boat you pick what best conforms to what you see as important. We all determine what lifestyle we want to live and then we go there. From the shoreline in Newfoundland to Ontario and Vancouver to Washington, California, Colorado, Texas, Florida, Maryland NYC, Philly, Boston Bangor.
They all have distinct advantages depending on your lifestyle.

That’s why when we travel we go other places like the LI Sound and north.

The diversity is refreshing.
 

·
Old soul
Joined
·
4,498 Posts
It seems everyone is shying away from saying it so I will.

I HATE NYC.

And DC.

In fact I HATE all cities.

Big towns I mere despise, but can see some utility.

Now I await all the Progressives to come to my rescue and note that my view is as valuable as all others.

Popcorn.
I don't think I'd say "hate", but basically I view all big cities the same way I view amusement parks. They're fun to visit for a short while, but I sure as heck wouldn't want to live in one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,937 Posts
I don't think I'd say "hate", but basically I view all big cities the same way I view amusement parks. They're fun to visit for a short while, but I sure as heck wouldn't want to live in one.
Urban living is NOT for everyone. And those that live in it want and need to get out into nature... or else!

I am not "defending" it as numero uno. I don't care. I recognize what it has and from my travels nothing compares.

Many people cannot tolerate city living and barely can tolerate it for a visit for whatever reason. I get that. I am not advocating people move to NYC. I am not advocating anything. I was trying to raise the objective points which make NYC unique and unmatched... like those reasons or not. You can find virtually anything you want in NYC.

These are not my reasons... whatever.

https://www.timeout.com/newyork/things-to-do/50-reasons-why-nyc-is-the-greatest-city-in-the-world
 

·
Master Mariner
Joined
·
8,235 Posts
Discussion Starter #52
I had two experiences, in the summer, in NYC. The first was when I hitch hiked there from Frisco with an offer to stay with a guy that stayed with me for a few weeks out west. When I got there, the offer to stay was rescinded and I ended up sleeping on a bench in Tompkins Square Park, until I just couldn't take it any more and hitch hiked back home. Nobody in the City offered any help.
The next time I went there was with my future 1st wife. We stayed in a condo in the upper west 70's that had a 24 hour deli that delivered food. We did the Broadway shows, etc.
My impression changed little on that second trip. The sky was still 2" across (as seen from the street between the buildings), the City was terribly noisy 24/7, dirty and smelled pretty bad. None of those things were outweighed by the food & entertainment.
But by far the most difficult thing was how cold and uncaring New Yorkers were to each other, especially after coming from Frisco, the "City of Love", in the mid '60s.
However, just as Frisco changed to a place I no longer love (except the extra sour, sour dough French bread), I have no doubt that NYC has also changed, though I doubt that the things I didn't like back then have changed very much.
 

·
Captain Obvious
Joined
·
2,325 Posts
Having lived in NYC for several years, I can tell you that its the people and the architecture and the intertwined story. Its a cultural richness - not as in Broadway shows, its in neighborhoods with ethnicity and diversity and density and just life - within those neighborhoods. Rich deep ingrained society. Scenes, and shows and casts of people that exist within those neighborhood universes.Greek diners, Italian places, pizza shops, cool bars. People that are like unknown stars, bums, criminals, saints, world travelers, wealthy, poor.

That's not something tourists can really access unless they are maybe visiting a local. I can't imagine what they are going though right now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,791 Posts
I lived in center city Philadelphia for 30+ Years. At the end of my career I also worked there. I thought my office moving to center city would be a god send, no more hour plus commute. However I found I went into depression and was making all kinds of excuses to get back to the suburban office. My last few years I was commuting to either NY or DC as much as 3 days a week. With Chicago and Miami thrown in. By then I was working only half time, the rest was on the boat in the marina.

Some folks thrive on interpersonal interaction, extroverts. As an introvert I can do it but it costs me. For 4 years I was President of our little congregation and I would frequently preside over the service and attend the lunch hour. Other folks felt recharged by this experience, I enjoyed it but they drained me. I was then done for the day.

My Wife and I are doing quite nicely in lockdown in the boat.
 

·
Old soul
Joined
·
4,498 Posts
Urban living is NOT for everyone. And those that live in it want and need to get out into nature... or else!

I am not "defending" it as numero uno. I don't care. I recognize what it has and from my travels nothing compares....
I get that Sander, and I too am not trying to say one choice is right, or wrong. I can appreciate the benefits and attractions of living in a large, vibrant and diverse city. I just find the negatives outweigh the positives for me -- right now.

In my younger days I certainly considered myself a "big city boy." I had no desire to live in a small community -- until I did. I suppose I could go back the other way in the future, but I doubt it.

But I'm very glad most people prefer large urban life to small community, or living closer to nature. Means there more space for folks like me :).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,504 Posts
My impression changed little on that second trip. The sky was still 2" across (as seen from the street between the buildings), the City was terribly noisy 24/7, dirty and smelled pretty bad. None of those things were outweighed by the food & entertainment.
But by far the most difficult thing was how cold and uncaring New Yorkers were to each other, especially after coming from Frisco, the "City of Love", in the mid '60s.
However, just as Frisco changed to a place I no longer love (except the extra sour, sour dough French bread), I have no doubt that NYC has also changed, though I doubt that the things I didn't like back then have changed very much.
Impressive as the buildings are the limited sky of cities like New York can cause problems. I lived on my boat on the west side of Manhattan from April to December for several years. In December the Marina closed down and I had to put the boat on the hard. One year I rented a small space on 35th street in midtown a few blocks from my workplace in midtown. It was just a place to sleep and avoid a 1 1/2 hour commute each way to Long Island. One winters day I was walking to the place and I just felt exhausted and felt like I was depressed which is not like me. I soon figured it out I was often walking in the shadow of the buildings. I was getting S.A.D (Seasonal Acquired Depression) once I started making sure I was spending time on the "sunny side of the street" I was back to normal. Never had that issue while living on the boat. :)
 
41 - 60 of 60 Posts
Top