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Discussion Starter #61
Merry Christmas too you too sir.

We have a saying: Don't feed the trolls.

The best way to make them go away is to ignore them.

I'm sure I am not the only person seeking an explanation about the Lion term.
Well, bgeddes, it appears this trip attracted a horde of trolls.

There is only one guest plate at my table during Christmas dough :)
I cannot feed them all.

Lion ? See chef. He knows so much, so strong he is :)

Merry Christmas again !
 

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Crew wanted to join for January 6 (weather permitting) departure from Beaufort, NC to Tortola, BVI and Culebra, PR on C&C 37R.

Can stay on boat until January 25, will sail back to Culebra around 24th.

Must be able to keep watch and helm. Cooking a plus. Share food and drink cost.

Fast, but spartan boat. Sat phone on deck. Please have some experience in ocean sailing.

Email at bartoszbilinski/at/gmail/dot/com

Thanks.
To me this is a simple request for crew, with just a few requested abilities stated in the posting, and the Email listed for more information.

The way i see it the OP offered a way for people that might want to take this trip to contact them. It is up to the one looking to join said trip to seek the information using the Email provided.

If this OP is not your Cup of OOLong then ,why, let it pass on by, there is no need to trash the thread. you do SN no help in doing this to anyone no matter how long ago they joined SN.

If you don't like the way the post was worded and or the lack of detail then GET OVER IT, not every post on here will have all of the information to answer everyone's Questions for ever trip with a Crew request.

If this is not the trip for you fine let it alone, if you think you might want to go on this trip, and i will bet a few have, then EMAIL the OP'er.

Fair Winds to the ones at Sea and stay warm and dry.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
To me this is a simple request for crew, with just a few requested abilities stated in the posting, and the Email listed for more information.

The way i see it the OP offered a way for people that might want to take this trip to contact them. It is up to the one looking to join said trip to seek the information using the Email provided.

If this OP is not your Cup of OOLong then ,why, let it pass on by, there is no need to trash the thread. you do SN no help in doing this to anyone no matter how long ago they joined SN.

If you don't like the way the post was worded and or the lack of detail then GET OVER IT, not every post on here will have all of the information to answer everyone's Questions for ever trip with a Crew request.

If this is not the trip for you fine let it alone, if you think you might want to go on this trip, and i will bet a few have, then EMAIL the OP'er.

Fair Winds to the ones at Sea and stay warm and dry.
Thank you MobiusALilBitTwisted.

Merry Christmas.
 

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I have been courteous and one of the few that have not been judgmental. I wished you well from the beginning.

The comments about lake and bay 'lions' could be considered offensive by those still not prepared for the treachery of open ocean sailing. Certainly you did not start sailing on a blue water boat and spent some time in a boat not worthy of big waters. Your skills did not start there either.

Can you please explain the label of 'Lion'?

I am trying desperately to convince myself it is not condescending.
 

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Of course it was condescending...

Of course the "Chesapeake Lions" comment was condescending, which is the way blanc has answered every post, except those few that support him.

I was initially intrigued by the trip. Like most of the sailors here, I would like to gain more offshore experience.

I disagree with the idea that a captain who posts a crew-wanted ad has only invited private e-mail responses. Anyone can register here and post any message he or she likes, provided it complies with the rules. That is the nature of an internet forum - it is not a one-way communication. That is also freedom of expression. Of course, responses should be somewhat relevant to the original post and the subforum.

We are a community, too, and many of us have enjoyed getting to know each other better through our participation in the forum posts, which can be informative and entertaining at the same time. Someone who posts here for the first time in a self-serving manner has opened himself up to greater inquiry and suspicion.

Going offshore in someone else's boat is a very serious matter. Every week, we read about offshore passages that have gone wrong, sometimes due to the poor judgment of the captain, or due to problems between the captain and the crew. The EPIRB incidents are perfect examples of those problems.

I believe a captain or crew member who posts here has subjected himself to a public interview process. We are all equals here, some crew are captains and some captains crew. An absurd question is perfectly legitimate inquiry in a job interview or any other interview.

Blanc could have answered any of the crew questions with grace and humor, instead of hostility, defensiveness and malice. (He also went out of his way to repeatedly insult our fellow member sawingknots, who is a good guy and a valuable contributor to the forum, despite being grammatically challenged).

For example, in response to sawingknots humorous question about uniforms, he could have said, "I don't require uniforms, but you are free to wear one if it is your regular practice."

In response to my EPIRB question, he could have answered, "A boat is not a democracy, only the captain will activate the EPIRB, if he can remember where he hid it, and only if the boat is sinking, or a crew member is seriously hurt."

In response to my half-joking boat rules question, he could have answered, "Sorry, no guns, no shooting at buoys, no drugs, no mutinies, but I will not search your bags. Perhaps you would be more interested in a hunting trip."

He also could have legitimately declined to be interviewed or answered, "E-mail me with any ridiculous questions."

This forum is working well as an open exchange of information. If you do not like the way this particular captain has been exposed, or you feel that you are exempt from any public inquiry from potential crew because you feel you are somehow superior, perhaps you should consider other avenues for seeking crew. A captain may be tested in far more trying circumstances than an internet forum, and the crew's lives may be depending on the outcome of that test.
 

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What is the treachery of offshore (is there an onshore) sailing??
Do a forum search for "EPIRB" and you will find the answer to your question.

What are Cheasapeake Lions?
A lion is a symbol of courage.

The Chesapeake is a PROTECTED body of water to be distinguished from the open ocean.

Therefore, a Chesapeake lion is a falsely courageous sailor who has never really been tested offshore, but who erroneously believes he or she is experienced and capable.

It is a sarcastic insult, a derogatory term designed to point out the limited experience of other posters on this forum and to imply that the OP is justifiably courageous because he sails offshore.
 

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Jameswilson.....well stated above
 

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What is the treachery of offshore (is there an onshore) sailing? Unless you have a really bad crew.
A real sailor, as you claim to be and feel that no one else here is, would know the answer to this question. Probably would not need to ask in the first place.

Just about every message that LupodiMare has posted since joining this week has been condescending. I'm wondering why LupodiMare even sticks around if he or she knows so much.
 

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There is a reason the 1500 doesnt go down south in January, wonder what that is?
I've done more southbound January and February deliveries than I care to think about. The weather is very unpredictable. The cold fronts that boil off the US East Coast on a regular basis can make things pretty sporty. That said, I've had fewer issues in January (other than cold) than in October and November. The extreme variability of conditions make scheduling any kind of a rally really problematic. Some years the fronts are three days apart, some years they are five days apart. The good news is that it is only a couple of days to cross the Gulf Stream and into warmer waters.

I respectfully suggest to the OP, as an experienced delivery skipper myself, a few points from the perspective of one often looking for crew, some paid but more often not. That's the way the middle of the market works.

First, a detailed description of the boat and its outfit will greatly increase the chances of volunteers.

Second, a description of the owner/captains experience and skills will greatly increase the chances of volunteers.

Third, forthrightly addressing the biggest issues of the proposed passage (in this case weather) will greatly increase the chances of volunteers. Here you should be able to speak knowledgeably about the weather patterns for the time of year, describe your predeparture weather planning, and your plan for updates underway. Hints (which are based on my educated opinion): any experienced offshore potential crew will not like to hear about GRiBs; synoptic charts and the ability to read them are best, while a qualified weather router is acceptable; at a minimum a weather fax receiver on board, preferably some means of communication like an SSB or sat-phone.

Perhaps I'll see you on the docks in Beaufort NC. I have a delivery from Beaufort to Virgin Gorda in January.

At the moment I'm working on route planning for another one next week from Panama to Guatemala.

Merry Christmas to me! *grin*
 

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Discussion Starter #74
Do a forum search for "EPIRB" and you will find the answer to your question.



A lion is a symbol of courage.

The Chesapeake is a PROTECTED body of water to be distinguished from the open ocean.

Therefore, a Chesapeake lion is a falsely courageous sailor who has never really been tested offshore, but who erroneously believes he or she is experienced and capable.

It is a sarcastic insult, a derogatory term designed to point out the limited experience of other posters on this forum and to imply that the OP is justifiably courageous because he sails offshore.
jameswilson, I agree with you, good track, I agree but, lions have lots of courage here, lots of knowledge here and lots of time to troll.

They do not have one reason to answer the POST or the call, but million reasons to troll.

I do not have time for that nonsense, I celebrate Christmas and then I prepare my boat for the trip and then I take off.

And you could figure that out, email was put in here so you could write me IF you are interested. Otherwise, pass it by, or piss back to where you come from.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
I've done more southbound January and February deliveries than I care to think about. The weather is very unpredictable. The cold fronts that boil off the US East Coast on a regular basis can make things pretty sporty. That said, I've had fewer issues in January (other than cold) than in October and November. The extreme variability of conditions make scheduling any kind of a rally really problematic. Some years the fronts are three days apart, some years they are five days apart. The good news is that it is only a couple of days to cross the Gulf Stream and into warmer waters.

I respectfully suggest to the OP, as an experienced delivery skipper myself, a few points from the perspective of one often looking for crew, some paid but more often not. That's the way the middle of the market works.

First, a detailed description of the boat and its outfit will greatly increase the chances of volunteers.

Second, a description of the owner/captains experience and skills will greatly increase the chances of volunteers.

Third, forthrightly addressing the biggest issues of the proposed passage (in this case weather) will greatly increase the chances of volunteers. Here you should be able to speak knowledgeably about the weather patterns for the time of year, describe your predeparture weather planning, and your plan for updates underway. Hints (which are based on my educated opinion): any experienced offshore potential crew will not like to hear about GRiBs; synoptic charts and the ability to read them are best, while a qualified weather router is acceptable; at a minimum a weather fax receiver on board, preferably some means of communication like an SSB or sat-phone.

Perhaps I'll see you on the docks in Beaufort NC. I have a delivery from Beaufort to Virgin Gorda in January.

At the moment I'm working on route planning for another one next week from Panama to Guatemala.

Merry Christmas to me! *grin*

I am under no obligation to manifest all my skill and equipment in my post or this thread, by the way, I wasn't even given such opportunity, but bashed from the very beginning without reason by sawingknots and jameswilson29 - people who would never take this trip even paid in a superb, steel hulled boat.

There would be, in my opinion, simply too much reading if I wrote more. Whoever would be interested in this trip would answer the call by emailing me. I got two responses and answered them fully.

I will be there next week, shoot me an email, we will have a talk and hot wine :)

Thanks,

Bartek
 

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it would seem now we have two nuts spewing on this forum and both joined about the same time [you got to wonder] btw do mental institutions have internet?
 

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I am under no obligation to manifest all my skill and equipment in my post or this thread,
Agreed. I didn't say you were obligated. What is said was that the more information you provide the greater your chances of getting volunteers. It's up to you to decide how much you want crew and how much you are willing to share in order to get that crew.

By the way, some of the "Chesapeake Lions" have a good bit of experience offshore. Just because we might live on and love the Chesapeake doesn't mean we don't leave her embrace. I'd sail with chef2sail any time and sleep well during his watch.

Good luck with your trip. I won't be in Beaufort until after the 22nd. Two trips elsewhere before that.
 

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Post

S/V Auspicious

I would sail anyhere with Captain Dave. His skills are incredible and his knowledge and willingness to help as well as give his information to others is priceless. Hihs activity in organizations to preserve our sailing areas as well as the Bay are very important Someday I hope we do get to take that trip together either in the same vessel or as a group.

As you stated so well many of the "lions of the Chesapeake have a great amount of blue water and offshore experience. The comment was meant as a swipe, but actually was a complement to all of us who keep our boats here. We enjoy harboring our boats on the beautiful Chesap[eake where we can wake up in the AM on a creek next to bald eagles and multi colored leaves. The condittions on the Chessie sometimes are far more challenging than the open water sailing offshore due to its shallowness and land configuations and how they interact with the water and winds. Thats not to say that there are perils and large adjustments an offshore passage requires, especially to insure a degree of safety to the boat and the crew which are not found in the confines of the Chesapeake with land no more than 15 miles away at any given point. Lots incidents however occur when coming into the landfall when in difficult conditions vs out at sea.

Many lions have been to the Carribean, New England, England and points further away from home. Our slip mate next to us just got home last spring from taking his 62 Sundeer on the ARCA around the world rally.

I am thinking of having a pennant/ burgee made to hang from our flag halyard
of a lion now to display proudly all the time

Dave
 

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Merry Christmas all!

Dave your comments made me think of a conversation I had several years ago with a couple from New Zealand who had circumnavigated and lived aboard for the summer there in Solomons MD where I too lived aboard. I enjoyed hearing about their voyages and asked just where was the worst conditions during your circimnavigation. They encountered numerous gales sailing out of Japan, but to my surprise they said the very worse was the conditions where the Potomic meets the Bay. I too have been there in 35 knot winds with sails down under power with the prop coming out of the water in the steep chop. With my current boat I would be sailing rather than under power in those conditions, but it still remains one of my worse conditions too.

The comment from the know it all here reminds me of comments made from the mouth of the south (Ted Turner) when he spoke unkindly about the seagoing abilities of the Great Lakes sailors. Whenever someone speaks thinking that they have see it all, nature will end up biteing them in the ass.
 
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