[TSOJOURNER]

OK so here we go… I have a 2008 Beneteau 40. I had a simple engine warranty problem (hard start). The Yanmar service center that performed the repair found that the dealer had forgotten to register the warranty. Due to this a re-commissioning had to be performed prior to fixing the hard start problem in order to get the engine properly into warranty.

One of the (many) things found during the re-com was an issue with the cooling fluid. If anyone has information about this I’d be thankful. Beneteau has filled up green cooling fluid in pretty much all of their Yanmar engines. I have in writing from Yanmar that this voids any and all warranties for the cooling system of the engine since the green cooling fluid allegedly corrodes the aluminum parts. Needless to say the green and the by Yanmar recommended red fluid don’t mix so the system needs to be properly flushed. This was something I had to do in order to get the engine warranty registered during the re-commissioning. Has anyone heard about this before? Will Beneteau use their size against (quite sizeable) Yanmar when (if Yanmar is correct) the engines start to corrode in all those boats that haven’t changed cooling fluid? Beneteau states the green is fine. Yanmar states that you are out of warranty if using green… Anyone that has more information?

And of course… don’t necessary trust that your engine is registered with Yanmar just because you have a document from your dealer stating so. My dealership remembered to give me the document but forgot to register the engine… And without registration the warranty is invalid.. If the engine is registered you can punch in the serial on Yanmar’s site and check the warranty status.

 

[mrwuffles]

Use the red, if you ever overheat with the green it will ruin your engine.

 

[TSOJOURNER]

Use the red, if you ever overheat with the green it will ruin your engine.

Thanks. That was news to me. As it has been explained to me previously it has been all about corrosion. This makes it even stranger that Beneteau uses the green cooling fluid (never mind voiding the warranty)

 

[bubb2]

My Beneteau came with RED! I think you have a dealer problem not a Beneteau problem.

 

[TSOJOURNER]

My Beneteau came with RED! I think you have a dealer problem not a Beneteau problem.

Bubb2,
Yes indeed I have a dealer problem. You can say that again. That is the reason I took the boat out of the dealer yard and into a certified Yanmar center for this work. But the Beneteau dealer claims that the engine came filled with green from Beneteau. I have spoken to Beneteau and they claim green is fine (but not explicitly that they filled up with green). Do you happen to know if your dealer or Beneteau filled up the cooling fluid? How old is your boat? I would be thankful for as much information as possible. It has certainly been expensive for me to get the engine into warranty. This on a new boat.

 

[bubb2]

I don't know who filled it, but mine is a 2gm20f model Yanmar. When the boat was delivered to us (new) it had red/pink antifreeze. I hope this helps.

 

[Maine Sail]

Can you..

Use the red, if you ever overheat with the green it will ruin your engine.

Can you please quote us some sources for this statement??

After just having been though the Dex-Cool (AKA Death Cool) fiasco on my own engine I have switched back to green but this is VERY labor intensive. I would welcome any source you have for your statement above that green antifreeze will ruin your engine in an over heat.

 

[TSOJOURNER]

I don't know who filled it, but mine is a 2gm20f model Yanmar. When the boat was delivered to us (new) it had red/pink antifreeze. I hope this helps.

Thanks -But just to be clear, it's not the antifreeze in the cooling system you are using pretty much every winter (raw water intake) that I'm referring to but rather the cooling fluid within the engine.
You shouldn't really have to replace the cooling fluid but just top it up probably every second year or so.

If your answer was regarding the cooling fluid rather than the antifreeze in the raw water circuit then it helped. But in any case I thank you for taking the time to read. Please let me know which it is.

 

[bubb2]

Yes we are talking the same thing. The cooling system, The stuff in the (little plastic bottle with the fill line) in the reserve bottle. Not the winter stuff you pour down the drains.

 

[TSOJOURNER]

Yes we are talking the same thing. The cooling system, The stuff in the (little plastic bottle with the fill line) in the reserve bottle. Not the winter stuff you pour down the drains.

Beautiful. Perfect. Thank you. What year was your Benne delivered? Dare I ask what dealership you are using?

 

[bubb2]

2000, when we bought the boat. We bought the boat from Great Hudson sailing. They have a rigger/mechanic/know every thing guy on staff. His name is Bill and we have been happy all of our dealings with them.

I am posting a link to another sailing board that has the same discussion going on. Please read post #3.
Red / Green cooling liquid - Anything Sailing Forums

 

[TSOJOURNER]

2000, when we bought the boat. We bought the boat from Great Hudson sailing. They have a rigger/mechanic/know every thing guy on staff. His name is Bill and we have been happy all of our dealings with them.

I am posting a link to another sailing board that has the same discussion going on. Please read post #3.
Red / Green cooling liquid - Anything Sailing Forums

Bubb2,
Great link. Post 3 is good. Someone that isn't as junior here as I may dare to do some copy and paste. However; the link doesn't speak so much to if green is bad for the engine. Just that Red and (now orange ) is quite good if you have aluminum within the block. I'd still like more undisputable evidence about what to use with a Yanmar engine. Does green make it corrode?

 

[bubb2]

I am no mechanic I done what I could. I would say that the owner"s manual would be last word on the subject.

 

[TSOJOURNER]

I am no mechanic I done what I could. I would say that the owner"s manual would be last word on the subject.

Yes and I thank you. The problem I have is that the manual (Yanmar) states red. The boat was filled up with green. The information I currently have from Beneteau suggests that green is OK. Combine this with the fact that the warranty is void according to Yanmar if you are using green and you see my dilemma.

 

[bubb2]

I see the dilemma, but Beneteau is not going to warrant the engine and Beneteau did not build the engine. Who are they to tell you what is OK to use in the engine. If Yanmar is not going to warrant the engine do to the actions (get it in writing) of Beneteau, then I would ask Beneteau to put in a Engine That Yanmar will warrant. Have you spoken to Beneteau USA I mean the factory and just not the dealer?

 

[TSOJOURNER]

I see the dilemma, but Beneteau is not going to warrant the engine and Beneteau did not build the engine. Who are they to tell you what is OK to use in the engine. If Yanmar is not going to warrant the engine do to the actions (get it in writing) of Beneteau, then I would ask Beneteau to put in a Engine That Yanmar will warrant. Have you spoken to Beneteau USA I mean the factory and just not the dealer?

Well we are getting close to the core of the problem. First off I need to know if it is my dealership that have used a cooling fluid that voids the Yanmar warranty or if it is Beneteau. In the former case the only potential dispute is btw me and the dealership about payments for the flush and change to red cooling fluid.
In the latter case however, If Beneteau have decided that it's worth it for them to fill up green in all their engines and then step in and negotiate with Yanmar should there be warranty issues it's a different matter. After all Beneteau is a big boat builder. In this case I'm probably on my own in terms of the cost for getting my engine back into "proper" warranty with red cooling fluid.
I have a verbal statement from Beneteau US that Green is fine. I have a so far unanswered email into Beneteau US about the issue. I have a written statement from Yanmar that green voids the warranty. I hope to have more information after Easter.
So; It would obviously be great for me to learn if there are other Bennes out there with green cooling fluid.

 

[sailingdog]

If you google Dex-Cool, you'll see that Dex-Cool has a series of class action lawsuits against them or involving them and a host of serious problems that are allegedly caused by the coolant.

IIRC, Maine Sail is flushing his engine's cooling system and switching back to regular coolant as part of the well-documented engine re-build he has posted about on the various sailing forums.

 

[bljones]

Relying on anti-freeze colour alone to determine it's properties is tricky. READ THE LABELS. OAT "long-life" anti-freeze (Dex-cool, for example) reacts with green anti-freeze, and depending upon which source you believe, will either cause a sludging effect or simply shorten the longevity (the manufacturers' opinion).

Here's a good chart with a breakdown of what is in what:

http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/Coolants_matrix.pdf

 

[bubb2]

I heard Muti-hull guys use green in the starboard engine and red in port engine.

 

[pdqaltair]

More information, Please.

Relying on anti-freeze colour alone to determine it's properties is tricky. READ THE LABELS. OAT "long-life" anti-freeze (Dex-cool, for example) reacts with green anti-freeze, and depending upon which source you believe, will either cause a sludging effect or simply shorten the longevity (the manufacturers' opinion).

Here's a good chart with a breakdown of what is in what:

http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/Coolants_matrix.pdf

As BLjones stated - and he is dead-on - color doesn't tell us anything anymore. We need to know what the underlying chemistry is. A spec sheet will give clues. An MSDS will give clues. I make a part of my living developing engine coolant formulation - have for the past 15 years. Most are fine and seldom is the coolant the real cause. Really serious problems generally have their roots in 1 of 3 places:
* Electrolysis. A wire somewhere it shouldn't be, a loose ground. Standard boat stuff. Remember, coolant is an electrolyte, and when circulating it loves to set up a current, just like a moving wire.
* Exhaust leak. If exhaust is getting into the cooling passages, no coolant can handle the oxygen load. All will start rusting violently.
* Old-school high pH coolant where there is aluminum. Bad. Often old truck AFs fell in this area.

Sailingdog is correct about Dex-cool. Actually, it was a good formulation, as far as their testing went, but it is quite incompatible with even small amounts of dirt or other coolants... which makes it a poor formulation of course. They should have tested these scenarios, but they relied on pure lab data and "clean" test fleets. No real-word testing. I remember an experience with dirt early in the "long-life" development process in my lab; we had a new ingredient that was just great in every way and cheap too. On one set of trials I used some old dirty test coupons, just to see how it worked on existing surfaces rather than perfect lab samples. Total failure. The additive treated the dirt and the metal got holes. You have to test in the real world.

It is not just about Yanmar specs either; the whole design, including heat exchanger and pump, are critical. But often the boat installers are not savvy in this area. They just don't know.

The best bet these days, unless you are sure it has always had one type of factory fill, is one of the "hybrid" types that claim to mix with anything. I do not intend to name names, but the larger brands have tested many combination by now, and they are formulated to be flexible.

The real exception to this generality is a large heavy-duty diesel with wet-sleave liners (not Yanmar - truck engines and the like). These engines have special needs and are well served by heavy duty NOAT products by Penray, Fleet Guard and others.