Like a lot of things ... it depends

The 2010 sailing season isn't quite complete yet here in the Great Lakes and I'm already scheming about next year's adventures. I've got a wild hair and think it might be fun to start moving the boat toward Florida and the Bahamas over the next several seasons. In so doing, I'm confused about the best route for a sailboat to take from the Great Lakes (Lake Michigan) to the east coast of the U.S.

The options I'm finding online seem to include some of the following:

a) St. Lawrence out of Lake Ontario and then over to the Hudson River, south to New York and the ICW.

b) St. Lawrence Seaway all the way from Lake Ontario to Nova Scotia and around the Gaspe Peninsula then south along Maine to the ICW.

c) Trent-Severn Waterway out of Georgian Bay on Lake Huron to the St. Lawrence (see b above).

d) Any number of other options including some of the Champlain Canal and Erie Canal.

What's the best route for keeping the mast up?

Is it realistic to think we can go from Lake Michigan to Maine and/or New York during the first summer, then down the ICW the next summer to Florida and finally the Bahamas for the 3rd summer, storing the boat from say September-May along the way? Or maybe add a fourth year by spending the second year exploring Maine?

I have tried pretty much all of the above. To start, if you want to keep your mast up there is only one way and that is down the St Lawrence. All of the other routes require your mast to be down.

From your description it is not clear what your primary purpose is - to get to Florida or to explore things along the way. From Lake Michigan you could get to Florida in some season, say July to November. From New York City onward it is pretty much the same route so the question is how to get to NYC.

Comments on the route:
a) St Lawrence - pluses: some fabulous places to visit: Quebec City, lower St Lawrence River (whales, scenery), Magdalen Islands, Bras d'Or Lakes, Newfoundland (only a short overnight away and amazing), Nova Scotia/Maine, Long Island Sound are all worth your time
- minuses: it is a very long way and from Quebec City to Nova Scotia you need to be self-sufficient; weather can be cool even in mid-summer and fog can be an issue for much of the trip (radar is almost a necessity)
b) Trent Canal - pretty countryside
- water depth can be an issue; they say 5' is ok but can be a problem with that depth, lots of rocks to hit; long way to motor; lots of motorboat traffic along the way
c) Erie Canal - you can either take your mast down in Buffalo and go the entire distance in the canal or go through the Welland Canal (mast up) and do Lake Ontario (Toronto, Bay of Quinte, Thousand Islands) then take your mast down in Oswego, NY and take the Oswego Canal a short distance to join the Erie Canal; you still get to do the nicest part of the Erie Canal; mast goes up just south of Albany and you go down the Hudson to NYC; the canal and river are both pretty and pleasant trips but still a lot of motoring to do
d) Lake Champlain - you would do the Welland Canal (or Trent Canal) to Lake Ontario and then go down the St Lawrence River (8 very large ship locks) to just past Montreal where you take your mast down. Go through canals due south to Albany where you meet the Erie Canal coming from the west; mast up here and away you go. It is very pretty on Lake Champlain and you get to do the entire Thousand Islands going downstream. Distance from near Toronto to Albany via the Champlain Canal is exactly twice as far as via the Oswego Canal (don't ask me how I know); there are the same number of locks going either way.

I think your choices are St Lawrence route for some serious cruising if you feel confident in yourself and your boat or going into Lake Ontario and down the Oswego/Erie canals for a quicker and easier trip.

 

Excellent information...thank you!

From your description it is not clear what your primary purpose is - to get to Florida or to explore things along the way.

We're definately not in a hurry to get south. We're thinking something like a 3-4 year plan, cruising just from June-August, getting to the Bahamas and then selling the boat in Florida when we're done. The boat would be stored in the off-seasons along the way and we'd come back to work in Michigan. The idea is to explore along the way and see as much as we can, so visiting Maine would be a bonus (see below).

I think your choices are St Lawrence route for some serious cruising if you feel confident in yourself and your boat or going into Lake Ontario and down the Oswego/Erie canals for a quicker and easier trip.

We're confident in our cruising ability, but our boat is small (28') and definately NOT a bluewater cruiser. I'm thinking taking the St. Lawrence all the way out and then coming around the Gaspe Peninsula and Nova Scotia might be too much ocean for our little boat, unless there is plenty of stops along the way to ensure safe coastal cruising. I'm unfamiliar with the area at this point so I don't know. Still, it would be great to do some cruising in Maine.

I like the Oswego/Erie canal option, though we'd miss out on Maine. I'm sure that would still give us plenty to see and do.

So as I refine this fuzzy plan a bit, I'm thinking:

Season 1: Lake Michigan to Lake Ontario (store on Lake Ontario during offseason)

Season 2: Lake Ontario to New York and ICW via Oswego/Erie canals (store somewhere in NY/NJ during offseason)

Season 3: New York to Florida via the ICW (store in Florida during offseason)

Season 4: Florida to the Bahamas & back to Florida for storage and put the boat up for sale.

Any other feedback from anyone as I flush this all out?

 

I wouldn't take a 28' boat across the Gulf of St. Lawrence (willingly).
If you took the channel between PEI and NS the water will be flatter but you'll be dodging lobster pots.
The gulf out to the Straits of Canso includes some pretty open water sailing.

You may want to take the Canal.

 

I wouldn't take a 28' boat across the Gulf of St. Lawrence (willingly).

You may want to take the Canal.

Thanks for the input. As stated above, I agree that the Oswego Canal/Erie Canal/Hudson River route seems the most logical at this point. The Gulf of St. Lawrence and the Nova Scotia coast don't look too inviting to me and my little Irwin. Oh well, Maine may have to wait, but it looks like NY to FL/Bahamas might be doable via the ICW.

 

For those that have done it, assuming ideal conditions and no extended stops along the way, how long is the trip down the St. Lawrence to the coast from Lake Ontario?

IIRC, the Oswego canal route to NYC takes 4-5 days right?

 

About a week, taking it easy. (Ontario to Gaspe)

 

As long as you're traveling might as well take the C&D canal into the Chesapeake Bay and sail south from there. Hit the Bay at the end of a season and there's plenty of places for winter storage.

 

What's the C&D Canal and does taking it mean missing NYC?

Killarney sailor: We took a 3 month cruise this summer and did the North Channel...it was amazing! The problem is, we're now aching for more cruising, thus the thought of heading to the east coast and then south.

 

With your plan, the first year to Lake Ontario, be sure to spend a few weeks in the North Channel, it is the highlight of the trip. Look to store your boat away from the NYC metropolitan area, it will be much cheaper (although considerably more expensive than what you are used to in Lake Michigan).

A question was asked about Lake Ontario to the Gaspe, a week would be fine for the trip - you get a hell of a boost from the current so it is quick. I would go slowly in the Thousand Islands and quickly from the end of the TI to Quebec City (with a stop in Montreal) and then take my time downstream from QC

 

The C&D is the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal, it will take you from the Delaware Bay to the head of the Chesapeake Bay. It would not mean missing NYC. Basically take a right at the end of New Jersey into Delaware Bay. It will add some miles to the trip but why waste an opportunity to sail the Chesapeake, visiting Baltimore and Annapolis.

BTW, someone said your winter layups were too long and I agree unless its a work or family issue. You'll find the sailing season in Maryland and south is much longer than you experience on the Great Lakes.

Don't know your college affiliation, if any but .... GO BLUE!!!!

 

BTW, someone said your winter layups were too long and I agree unless its a work or family issue. You'll find the sailing season in Maryland and south is much longer than you experience on the Great Lakes.

Don't know your college affiliation, if any but .... GO BLUE!!!!

Our winter layups are dictated by my wife's teaching job, hence we cruise from June through August. I am self-employed and can telecommute.

I went to MSU, so I'll counter with Go Green!

 

Given the original posters intent to take three to four years I'd suggest cruising Long Island Sound, Narraganset Bay, the Elizabeth Islands, Block, Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard, Peconic Bay. The temperate climate is much more attractive than what you'll find from the Chesapeake south in the summer months.

Last year I met an English couple cruising on LIS. They kept their boat in CT and flew to CT every Spring and home every Autumn for the previous eight years. It5 makes sense to me.

 

Yes, but with a goal of making it to the Bahamas, he has to move south, out of New England, eventually.

 

The other issue is whether or not the Bahamas are a suitable cruising ground from June-August. I know hurricanes are fairly rare in the Bahamas, but is that time period still a risk?

 

can anyone point me in the right direction to plan out my trip from sturgeon bay wi to nova scotia?

 

The bits of knowledge I collected through this thread and others turned into this blog post: Escape to the Sea - How to get from the Great Lakes to the Caribbean

As a side note, we saw your Palmer Johnson in Sturgeon Bay last summer...gorgeous boat! Very interesting design with the boomless main and triple headsails. Loved the cockpit design too.

 

Mike, what kind of boat, how much experience do you have, how much time - and do you have radar?

 

if everything goes the right way... a 62 footer... palmer and johnson cutter....ive been sailing since i was 13...my last boat was a pearson 424.... the proposed boat has 72 mile radar integrated with gps and weather... I'm retired now, headed to fla then maybe the Caribbean... summers will be back in the new england area

 

Pretty straightforward trip. The earlier responses on this thread will help. The Welland and Seaway locks are quite simple going downstream. With a boat your size you probably would want four capable line handlers including the captain. Highlights of the trip (more stars the better): North Channel **, Toronto *, Thousand Islands *, Montreal *, Quebec City **, Saguenay *, Magdalene Islands *, south coast of Newfoundland ****, Bras d'Or *, coast of Nova Scotia *. If it were me I would go fast in less interesting places eg overnight on lakes and save time for the interesting bits. You will go very fast down the St Lawrence which is great. You may get fog anywhere below Quebec City. When we there we saw a fog bank along the coast of Nova Scotia, sometimes it was 10 miles off sometimes it came ashore but it was always lurking.

Final thought, you may find it hard to get a dock for a 62 footer in many places. Have the relevant cruising guides and phone ahead about possibilities. There are guides for the lakes, St Lawrence, Newfoundland, and Nova Scotia. In Newfoundland anchoring can be difficult because of depths so that you usually tie up at the village dock (unless the ferry is due).

 

Thanks...thats a wealth of info and greatly appreciated... I will update with important info...

 

We're planning to begin the trip south next season (from Lake Superior to the Caribbean). The plan is to take the St. Lawrence route and to spend as much time as possible cruising the Maritimes and hopefully NFLD.

As my tag line suggests, my wife and I like to move slow, so we're only planning to get down to Lake Ontario (or perhaps the Montreal area) in the first season. I've never sailed the lower Great Lakes (including Michigan), so this will allow us the time to explore.

My current question (lots more to come): Does anyone have any good recommendations for winter storage in Lake Ontario, preferably on the Canadian side? Ideally I'd like an inexpensive yard which allows DIY boat work. We're even toying with the idea of wintering it in the water and living aboard (as some people do down in L. Ontario). Boat is a 37' full-keel, 28,000#.

 

We're planning to begin the trip south next season (from Lake Superior to the Caribbean). The plan is to take the St. Lawrence route and to spend as much time as possible cruising the Maritimes and hopefully NFLD.

As my tag line suggests, my wife and I like to move slow, so we're only planning to get down to Lake Ontario (or perhaps the Montreal area) in the first season. I've never sailed the lower Great Lakes (including Michigan), so this will allow us the time to explore.

My current question (lots more to come): Does anyone have any good recommendations for winter storage in Lake Ontario, preferably on the Canadian side? Ideally I'd like an inexpensive yard which allows DIY boat work. We're even toying with the idea of wintering it in the water and living aboard (as some people do down in L. Ontario). Boat is a 37' full-keel, 28,000#.

Mike,

Keep me posted when you get near Mt. Desert Island. If I am around I would like to say hello. Perhaps show you the islands near here? If I am "away" my mooring could be available. I will be interested in your trip. We are planning a long loop in the next couple of years. Up the Hudson, headed to Duluth. Returning down the St Laurence. Probably a 3 season journey. I will be looking for storage options, too.

Sounds like a great plan.

Down

 

Mike,
Couple of places to liveaboard in the Toronto area for the winter - Port Credit Marina and Bluffer's Park in Scarborough. The latter is in a gorgeous park at the base of the Scarborough Bluffs but you really would want a car since it is a bit isolated. Forget the name but there is a marina with winter liveaboards in the Toronto inner harbour. Incredible location to take advantage of the city amenities but they do have (or had) a long wait list.

 

Thanks KS, I'll add these to the list and check them out. I get down to TO every once in a while for work so I'll drop in on these. Do you know anything about Belleville? I've heard there is a marina that offers year-round slips.

 

The liveaboard marina in downtown Toronto is "Marina Quay West".

There are no liveablard facilities in Belleville but there are at the Kingston Marina (not "Confederation Basin" but the one round back through the lift bridge) probably the cheapest liveaboard situation in Ontario.

 

To add to boatpoker's post;
Kingston Marina, Operated by MetalCraft Marine Inc.

I live in Kingston but do not keep my boat at Kingston Marina, so I can only speak anecdotally.
From what I understand there is plenty of room for winter live aboard but they are full up for on the hard winter storage. My understanding is that there is room for on the hard summer storage and my walks around the marina, in the summer time, suggest they are ok with DIY boaters. The marina is about 4 blocks from the down town core and Kingston, even in the winter, is a great place to be. The marina it self is a blue collar working man's type marina, no yacht club types hanging around for long. It is located next to what is refered to as the inner harbour and a few boats, 6-15 anchor all summer using the marina as a way to get to the boat and shore, with a minamal fee for dingy landing use. The inner harbour being the gateway to the rideau canal, sheltered from lake ontario waves but not the wind.

The link below will take you to an article abount Kingston Marina live aboards;
Kingston Life

John

 

St Lawrence all the way!! We have done some 37,000nm and that part of our trip and the Gaspe was fantastic!!!
BTW your boat size is not that relevant, if you are a good sailor and the boat is sound 28ft is plenty of boat. I am sitting right now in Samoa with a woman Nina from s/v Bika. See "freewebs.com/sybika-eng" or bikasailing.blogspot.com to see their stuff. She sails a 26ft with no motor, not even an outboard. She and her husband have crossed Atlantic and Pacific (They are from Norway)

The route up the Gulf of St Lawrence has many stops for a boat your size. The Magdaline's, Cape Brenton, Bras'Or Lakes etc etc is just so cool

PM if you have any questions
john

 

Thanks guys. I'm really looking forward to the St. Lawrence section.

Thanks for the links and the info John. Great article. The marina looks good, but they have a note on their website: "Take note: We do not permit winter live-a-boards, in-water or out."

Do you think this is a change of policy? Or do they not enforce it?

 

Mike

I can't say either way but I do know that the manager of the local west marine store lives aboard in the marina year round, in the water year round. She(and her husband) are not the only one's. Last winter there were at least 1/2 dozen boats in the water in January.

John

 

Mike

I can't say either way but I do know that the manager of the local west marine store lives aboard in the marina year round, in the water year round. She(and her husband) are not the only one's. Last winter there were at least 1/2 dozen boats in the water in January.

Just talked to Kingston Marina. They are fazing out their winter live-a-boards. They're not taking any new clients. Too bad...

Any other suggestions outside of Toronto (which I will be looking into).

 

My wife and 3 young kids and I are also heading out of Sturgeon Bay to begin a 4-year circumnavigation. We will not want to unstep the mast so the St. Lawrence is our preferred choice out of the lakes. How long did you all say it would take to get to Maine from Lake Michigan if we kept moving along basically non-stop (I mean we will enjoy the stops...but just trying to see what length of time the sailing alone will take). We would leave June 1st, 2014 and want to get to the Keys by late summer.

 

"...the Keys by late summer"??? You mean, the FLORIDA Keys???

Please, tell me there are some Keys in Maine I haven't heard of

Wow, that would be a VERY fast pace, allowing precious little time for you to savor some of the finest cruising anywhere...Three months from Wisconsin to S Florida via the St Lawrence is possible, of course, but why? And, why would you want to arrive in the Keys, precisely at a time when Hurricane season generally just starts kicking into gear?

 

You might consider taking the Chicago River to the Ill. river, down to the Mississippi and out to the Gulf, or perhaps the Erie canal to the Hudson?

 

I'm not in a hurry... This is why I'm trying to find out how long it takes. Let me know a good timeline. I'm all ears! I don't want to unstep the mast and definitely want to see the whales in Canada. But we want to get south before fall really kicks in. We will winter over in the Carribbean and need to get through Panama before the 2015 hurricane season. Any advice about where to be and when... We need it.

 

Without knowing the type of boat, etc, it's pretty tough to attempt to estimate your timeline... I think you may be seriously underestimating the amount of ground you'll have to cover going out the St Lawrence, but perhaps more importantly, all the wonderful exploration to be done along the way, before you even reach New England - an area that alone can occupy many cruisers for the better part of a summer...

I think the desire to "get south before the fall kicks in" seems a bit misguided, as well... There are many good reasons why most people don't proceed south of Norfolk much before mid-October, hurricane season being the most compelling, of course...

When you say "wintering in the Caribbean" do you mean the Eastern Caribbean? Are you thinking of sailing offshore, direct to the islands? From your mention of the Keys, I had assumed you mean to head down the coast, no? If so, you're not gonna have much time in the Lesser Antilles, before it's time to head for Panama by April, or thereabouts...

If you are headed down the coast or ICW, I think you'll have more fun doing it as part of the seasonal southbound migration of cruisers, rather than doing it earlier more on your own... Particularly, with children aboard, as you're far more likely to meet up with other 'Kid Boats", a consideration that often seems to dictate the movements of many cruising families...

Unless you plan to shoot straight for the Virgins from Norfolk in early November, you might want to re-think getting all the way out to the Eastern Caribbean... The Thorny Path with young children aboard might not be much fun... I'd think about a nice leisurely trip down the ICW/coast, spending the holidays in FL and the Keys, then head over to the Bahamas for a few months, thence down to Jamaica for a pit stop, and wait for a good window to head for Panama...

You can always save the E Caribbean for the tail end of your circumnavigation, after all...

 

why not make it the "great loop" then? go down the Mississippi and back up the east coast?

 

We're planning a similar trip, but our timeline is far more relaxed. Starting at the far end of the Great Lakes (Thunder Bay), we now plan to winter the boat in L. Ontario or perhaps near Montreal. The next season we plan to take our time going out the St. Lawrence. We may make a run for the Bahamas that year, but hopefully will spend a season or two exploring the Maritimes and Newfoundland.

My sense from the research I've done is that your schedule is very rushed. It could be done, but it will be a forced march all the way. Not much time for enjoyment, nor for dealing with the inevitable problems and delays.

If timing is the paramount factor, then I would chose the canal or the Mississippi route.