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I've read most of this thread, but bogged down by the fifth page, so forgive me if someone else has made this distinction previously. I don't recall seeing it.

Many, MANY, and probably even the vast majority drink alcoholic beverages because they like the TASTE. How many of us get actually DRUNK enjoying a fine single malt, a beautiful bottle of unfiltered hand-crafted IPA, a carefully cellared and decanted Amarone, or any number of other amazing sensual flavorful treats? I admit that there are times when I might have TWO or, on a very long drawn out evening with friends, maybe three over the course of many hours, and maybe even experience a slight feeling of increased relaxation, but drunk?!? No.. not in decades.

People smoke weed to get buzzed, period. It happens instantly. You smoke to get stoned. You don't savor the flavor, or "sip" the smoke.. you get as much in your lungs as you can, clamp down, hope you don't cough your guts out of your nose, then enjoy the result.

Yes, they are both drugs. Yes, they are both bad for you, although some medical research has said that one or two drinks a day can actually help prevent a stroke and be good for you, although there is certainly debate there. Here's a quick Google result of a "benefits of alcohol" search:

7 Health Benefits Of Drinking Alcohol

A search for "benefits of daily marijuana use" turned this up. It's MUCH more equivocal..

Marijuana Benefits and Risks: 10 Things to Know - Health

I have yet to hear of a study that says that marijuana is good, at any "daily dose," for a person without any health issues, but I'm sure they're out there. You can find a study that "proves" almost any point of view these days.

Personally, I'd like to see the government get increasingly out of our private lives and am not opposed to legalization of marijuana. I DO understand and mostly agree with the arguments re/ the hypocrisy of alcohol being legal and marijuana being illegal. I still wrestle with the fact that, and it IS a fact, marijuana is a drug, and NOTHING but a drug, while alcohol is a byproduct contained in many delicious beverages that simply can not be made alcohol-free. I simply can't equate someone sipping a single glass of Chardonnay with someone taking a few hits on a blunt. One is a drug user, and one is not. Now, someone pounding three glasses of wine, regardless of quality, in 20 minutes.. that's using a drug, too. Even having said that, as long as we are in our own homes, or not in a position where we could be of any harm to anyone else, I still think we should have the right to abuse ourselves as we wish. I wish not to go that extreme, but that's just me.
 

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People smoke weed to get buzzed, period. It happens instantly. You smoke to get stoned. You don't savor the flavor, or "sip" the smoke.. you get as much in your lungs as you can, clamp down, hope you don't cough your guts out of your nose, then enjoy the result.
I disagree with this. I have smoked some very good tasting pot, some very bad tasting pot, and points in between. If it was legal, I would enjoy smoking some good tasting pot once in a while as I now enjoy a fine cigar a couple of times per week.
 

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I disagree with this. I have smoked some very good tasting pot, some very bad tasting pot, and points in between. If it was legal, I would enjoy smoking some good tasting pot once in a while as I now enjoy a fine cigar a couple of times per week.
Two questions..

1. If pot didn't get you stoned, would you smoke it just for the taste?

2. Did the pot you smoked that tasted good truly taste good, or did you enjoy the taste because it was a harbinger of the buzz to come?

Honest answers to those two questions will probably result in a confirmation of my statement, but it's possible I'm wrong. People like all kinds of things. Check out the commercials about folks who still like cable tv... ;)
 

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Many, MANY, and probably even the vast majority drink alcoholic beverages because they like the TASTE.
Ha ha ha ha ha! That's one of the funniest pro-alcohol things I've ever read in the alcohol vs. marijuana debate and I've read a lot!

The taste.... ha ha ha! That's a real good one!
 

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Captain Obvious
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bblument,

Nicely written, and a reasonable tone, but complete b.s.

Alcohol is a drug. Come on. And it is now quite common for some to eat some delicious and enticing edible, just enough perhaps for a slight effect.

There is no moral issue here. What is truly different is your opinion of them.
 

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Two questions..

1. If pot didn't get you stoned, would you smoke it just for the taste?

2. Did the pot you smoked that tasted good truly taste good, or did you enjoy the taste because it was a harbinger of the buzz to come?

Honest answers to those two questions will probably result in a confirmation of my statement, but it's possible I'm wrong. People like all kinds of things. Check out the commercials about folks who still like cable tv... ;)
I would prefer to smoke good tasting pot that didn't get me stoned. Yes, it really tasted good (to me). I certainly don't smoke my cigars to get stoned. I am sure that there are many people who would not believe that some people enjoy cigars and pipes (with normal tobacco).
 

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Ha ha ha ha ha! That's one of the funniest pro-alcohol things I've ever read in the alcohol vs. marijuana debate and I've read a lot!

The taste.... ha ha ha! That's a real good one!
Umm... not sure why that's so funny. If it wasn't for the taste, why in the world would we have such a vast selection of artfully brewed, vinted, and distilled beverages that command such incredibly high prices? If it was simply and only a drug, surely the "generic" versions would be the only thing that sold, given the much cheaper access fee. If the only alcohol available to me was Bud Light, Chymes Whiskey, and Night Train Express, I'd never touch a drop. No point.

For the record, I'm not pro-alcohol. Not for one millisecond would I recommend or suggest alcohol consumption to someone opposed to doing so. I am pro personal decision, assuming your decision affects no one else negatively. Period.
 

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I would prefer to smoke good tasting pot that didn't get me stoned. Yes, it really tasted good (to me). I certainly don't smoke my cigars to get stoned. I am sure that there are many people who would not believe that some people enjoy cigars and pipes (with normal tobacco).
Fair enough. I certainly have no idea what tastes good to you, and I accept your word. Thanks for the reply.
 

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bblument,

Nicely written, and a reasonable tone, but complete b.s.

Alcohol is a drug. Come on. And it is now quite common for some to eat some delicious and enticing edible, just enough perhaps for a slight effect.

There is no moral issue here. What is truly different is your opinion of them.
Guess I should go read my post again; I don't recall saying anything was immoral, and I did say I felt that the current laws as they pertain to alcohol and marijuana were hypocritical. Not sure what I wrote to earn the "complete b.s." statement.. just stating my opinions on the subject, that's all. If we do disagree, and I'm not sure that we do all that much, does that mean that one of us must be full of "b.s.?" I don't see things that way.

We agree that alcohol is a drug, and that marijuana is a drug.
We may disagree that sipping a single glass of wine makes one a drug user. I do not believe it does, in the typical usage of the term "drug user," meaning one who uses a drug to alter their consciousness. You may disagree, and have a different interpretation of what a drug user is. Cumin and nutmeg in large quantities can cause hallucinations; am I a drug user because I use a bit in my recipes? If so, then by your definition a person enjoying a Pinot Noir with a nice plate of pasta primavera is a drug user. Book'em, Dano.

Another example about the difference... what do folks mean when they say, "Hey, I just scored some GREAT weed!" or whatever the vernacular is these days. Chances are, they mean it's really strong.. high THC content.. it gets you REALLY stoned fast. Contrast that with, "I just scored a great bottle of Chateauneuf"... it has nothing, and I mean NOTHING to do with the alcohol content or how fast it'll get you drunk, and all about the flavor profile, nose, mouthfeel, etc.

YES, unequivocally, alcohol is a drug. That's not why many people drink it. YES, marijuana is a drug. that IS why most (and I still say all, but in deference to ianjoub's post, I'll keep open to the idea that an isolated few may do it for just the taste) aficionados partake of it.

Note that not once did I say that either was immoral or make any judgements about those who partake of either.

We good?
 
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Man, I must be squarer than even I thought … I was ignoring this thread b/c I assumed “blunt offerings” were either rounded piers or abusive advice offered by marina jerks. Who knew “blunt” was a euphemism for joint??

Everyone but me I guess :eek:.

Haven’t read all the insightful and measured wisdom of the previous seven pages ;), but just wanted to add (once again) that Canada will show why we are the land of the free when we legalize pot this summer. Yet another reason to visit the Great White North, or to stay away, depending on your view of this.

There is no rational reason to have cannabis use be illegal, while also allow a whole slew of other drugs, not least of which is alcohol. Caffeine, nicotine, not to meant the long list of narcotics available via prescription, are all easily accessible and fully legal. Personally, I think we should legalize everything.

BTW, I would use cannabis for the buzz. Some might like the taste. Me, I hate smoking, so it would be edibles, and I’ve never noticed much extra taste in my special brownies. Yum, yum :).

Use of mind-altering drugs is as normal as homosexual or liking country music (ok, maybe that last one is questionable ;)). Many other mammals do the same thing. There’s nothing special about homo sapiens using drugs to create altered mental states. It’s part of who we are as natural critters.
 

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Umm... not sure why that's so funny. If it wasn't for the taste, why in the world would we have such a vast selection of artfully brewed, vinted, and distilled beverages that command such incredibly high prices? If it was simply and only a drug, surely the "generic" versions would be the only thing that sold, given the much cheaper access fee. If the only alcohol available to me was Bud Light, Chymes Whiskey, and Night Train Express, I'd never touch a drop. No point.
There are probably as many variations of cannabis as there are types of alcohol.

And I do apologize for my tone. As Sal pointed out, you were very reasonable and level-headed in your writing.

But c'mon. Even 1 drink gives you a slight altered warm buzzy feeling and it's total baloney to say that that has nothing to do with why you drink an alcoholic beverage.

Cannabis has come a long long way from what most people remember from their reefer madness indoctrination days. Most people I know who use it recreationally don't like getting "stoned" any more than you don't like getting drunk. It's very easy now to take a precisely measured dose of edibles down to the mg of THC and get a slight altered buzz feeling just like from that 1 drink you like to have.
 

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Another example about the difference... what do folks mean when they say, "Hey, I just scored some GREAT weed!" or whatever the vernacular is these days. Chances are, they mean it's really strong.. high THC content.. it gets you REALLY stoned fast.
Well, last time I purchased cannabis was in a retail store in Washington state when out visiting my in-laws there. I had a nice conversation with the rep about finding a mild edible to enjoy while out hiking, with a subtle mood-altering effect, and not something that would make me want to sit on the couch with the munchies. She steered me toward these little mints with 5 mg/THC each and they were very enjoyable. I felt slightly relaxed and more creative and just kinda happy for the few hours after I took one.

The ingrained bias against cannabis as shown by bblument is pretty interesting, but so completely wrong.
 

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People smoke weed to get buzzed, period. It happens instantly. You smoke to get stoned. You don't savor the flavor, or "sip" the smoke.. you get as much in your lungs as you can, clamp down, hope you don't cough your guts out of your nose, then enjoy the result.
It sounds like you are describing a teenager at a frat party here, this in no way aligns with how responsible adults are consuming herb. Getting stoned is rarely the objective and taking a 2 lung fulls of harsh smoke probably would not be the least bit enjoyable for the average casual toker.

I would argue, that like alcohol the taste and the ritual are just as important to the casual toker as they are to the average alcohol consumer.

Have you seen the elaborate offerings available to increase enjoyment and reduce the unpleasantness of the experience. You can go out and drop $700 on a water bong with features like percolator stems, splash guards 32 percalators divided between multiple chambers followed by a glycerin super coolers. The folks I know who smoke herb can be just as picky as their scotch sipping counter parts in both what herb they choose to smoke and how they choose to smoke it. Have you seen the price of good quality vaporisers and the maintenance steps involved in their use.

Then their is the whole edible and tea world out there. If the process is all about filling lungs with harsh black smoke to get messed up, then why do folks go to such effort to cultivate, decarboxylase, experiment with different teas and recipes.

The folks I know are not generally trying to get super baked, they are aiming for a mild pleasant buzz most of the time. I don't use the stuff myself, largely because it is still illegal, but the folks I do know who use it (including a couple of veterans-emergency services workers who have been prescribed it), just do not use it at all how you describe it. In fact, I suspect you wouldn't even be able to identify them as users and I also doubt earlier comments about non pot smokers ability to recognise a very mild dose more easily than identifying somebody who has had a single drink.
 

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Altho' some would disagree, I like my mind the way it is, no need for altering.
I am in favour of legalization just so the tokers can pay all those extra taxes and relieve my tax bill a little :)
 

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Well, last time I purchased cannabis was in a retail store in Washington state when out visiting my in-laws there. I had a nice conversation with the rep about finding a mild edible to enjoy while out hiking, with a subtle mood-altering effect, and not something that would make me want to sit on the couch with the munchies. She steered me toward these little mints with 5 mg/THC each and they were very enjoyable. I felt slightly relaxed and more creative and just kinda happy for the few hours after I took one.

The ingrained bias against cannabis as shown by bblument is pretty interesting, but so completely wrong.
Obviously, living in NYS, the interaction you described with a store rep and obtaining a measured dose of THC is out of my realm of experience. I still am not sure what I wrote that shows an inherent bias against cannabis. I'm assuming you ate the mints so that you felt slightly relaxed, more creative, and just kinda happy for a few hours. You used a drug to achieve that. No judgement or bias, just an observation. That's not why I drink a glass of cab, an IPA, or a finger of Laphroig. Even if it WAS, I'm still not making a value judgement, but just an observation.
 
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I'm assuming you ate the mints so that you felt slightly relaxed, more creative, and just kinda happy for a few hours. You used a drug to achieve that. No judgement or bias, just an observation. That's not why I drink a glass of cab, an IPA, or a finger of Laphroig.
I think that liking the taste of alcoholic drinks has a lot to do with the brain liking the pleasant relaxing effect -- whether you realize that or not. A person who has never taken a drink of anything with alcohol will take a sip of any alcohol drink and think it tastes terrible. Because it does. It's only through experience that the brain develops a positive association between the pleasant effect of alcohol with the taste. Same thing with coffee/caffeine.
 

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A very interesting post. Suffice it to say I'm learning a LOT about marijuana use!! More inserted below..

It sounds like you are describing a teenager at a frat party here, this in no way aligns with how responsible adults are consuming herb. Getting stoned is rarely the objective and taking a 2 lung fulls of harsh smoke probably would not be the least bit enjoyable for the average casual toker.
As someone who went to college in the late 70s/early 80s and who's spent his life as a professional and primarily jazz musician, I've been around my share of drugs and users of all ages, mostly early 20s through late 80s in age. The use you describe above is pretty typical of what I've seen.. long drags on joints or pipes or big hits on bongs. One guy was particularly fond of doing "pitchers." Funny to watch.

I would argue, that like alcohol the taste and the ritual are just as important to the casual toker as they are to the average alcohol consumer.
Ritual.. well, yeah, I guess. Dim the lights, put on some good tunes. Taste.. again, not as I observed over the decades, but it's a big world and I certainly haven't seen or experienced all of it.

Have you seen the elaborate offerings available to increase enjoyment and reduce the unpleasantness of the experience. You can go out and drop $700 on a water bong with features like percolator stems, splash guards 32 percalators divided between multiple chambers followed by a glycerin super coolers. The folks I know who smoke herb can be just as picky as their scotch sipping counter parts in both what herb they choose to smoke and how they choose to smoke it. Have you seen the price of good quality vaporisers and the maintenance steps involved in their use.
No, I haven't. I really did NOT have any idea. Honestly. Learn something new everyday. The folks I knew over the years enjoyed it, but they enjoyment was the buzz. The smoking (and occasional brownies) seemed to be enjoyed because they led to the buzz. Never saw anything other than joints, pipes, bongs (most homemade), and brownies. The times they are a-changin', I guess!

Then their is the whole edible and tea world out there. If the process is all about filling lungs with harsh black smoke to get messed up, then why do folks go to such effort to cultivate, decarboxylase, experiment with different teas and recipes.
I don't know. Is your assertion that it does NOT have anything to do with getting messed up? That the tastes of the teas and recipes are so desirable that people who do not wish to feel the effects of marijuana consume these products? I don't know the term "decarboxylase".. I'll have to look that up!

The folks I know are not generally trying to get super baked, they are aiming for a mild pleasant buzz most of the time. I don't use the stuff myself, largely because it is still illegal, but the folks I do know who use it (including a couple of veterans-emergency services workers who have been prescribed it), just do not use it at all how you describe it. In fact, I suspect you wouldn't even be able to identify them as users and I also doubt earlier comments about non pot smokers ability to recognise a very mild dose more easily than identifying somebody who has had a single drink.
I appreciate your post, and I still think that somehow folks are reading more into my posts than is there. I'm not of the opinion that using marijuana makes you a waste of a human being, unproductive, or immoral. Like any drug, both marijuana and alcohol can be ABused and cause great pain and suffering to you and/or those around you. We probably all know "stoners" who spend most of their waking hours baked, don't do much, and have lost jobs or dropped out of school. We also probably all know "drunks" who spend way too many hours drinking every day and have lost their jobs or families because of it. Sadly, we all probably know one or two folks who've had heart problems caused by alcohol OR by pot. On the other side of the coin, I know we all know folks who drink responsibly, and we know folks who use marijuana responsibly. In my experience, most folks who use marijuana use it for the buzz and the taste/ritual/whatever is a side effect. Most folks who drink (Ok, "use") alcohol enjoy the flavor of whatever their favorite beverages are, and the buzz is the side effect if you enjoy more than one or one strong one very quickly. That's my experience.

Those that DON'T enjoy the flavor the their alcohol and still drink it.. yeah, we've come full circle.. those are the teenagers at frat parties or folks at the local watering hole doing shots of whatever and grimacing afterwards, or chilled fruity shots just to get a buzz. I'm not saying that side of alcohol doesn't exist. It sure does. Based upon your post, I guess there's more in common between the two. As an admitted enjoyer of fine scotches, bourbons, and whiskeys, IPAs (primarily), and wines (primarily big reds) and an admitted abstainer from marijuana, I know not of the higher eschelons of cannabis exclusivity you described. I hardly live in a vacuum... if what you're describing is a significant portion of marijuana aficionados, I'm surprised I haven't run into anyone fitting your description in real life. The guys I know roll one or fill a bowl and enjoy the buzz. It's just different than savoring a Remy. It just is. Different is NOT a value judgement or condemnation of anything.

Thanks for the window into a different world. Best to you.
 

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Captain Obvious
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Guess I should go read my post again; I don't recall saying anything was immoral, and I did say I felt that the current laws as they pertain to alcohol and marijuana were hypocritical. Not sure what I wrote to earn the "complete b.s." statement.. just stating my opinions on the subject, that's all. If we do disagree, and I'm not sure that we do all that much, does that mean that one of us must be full of "b.s.?" I don't see things that way.

We agree that alcohol is a drug, and that marijuana is a drug.
We may disagree that sipping a single glass of wine makes one a drug user. I do not believe it does, in the typical usage of the term "drug user," meaning one who uses a drug to alter their consciousness. You may disagree, and have a different interpretation of what a drug user is. Cumin and nutmeg in large quantities can cause hallucinations; am I a drug user because I use a bit in my recipes? If so, then by your definition a person enjoying a Pinot Noir with a nice plate of pasta primavera is a drug user. Book'em, Dano.

Another example about the difference... what do folks mean when they say, "Hey, I just scored some GREAT weed!" or whatever the vernacular is these days. Chances are, they mean it's really strong.. high THC content.. it gets you REALLY stoned fast. Contrast that with, "I just scored a great bottle of Chateauneuf"... it has nothing, and I mean NOTHING to do with the alcohol content or how fast it'll get you drunk, and all about the flavor profile, nose, mouthfeel, etc.

YES, unequivocally, alcohol is a drug. That's not why many people drink it. YES, marijuana is a drug. that IS why most (and I still say all, but in deference to ianjoub's post, I'll keep open to the idea that an isolated few may do it for just the taste) aficionados partake of it.

Note that not once did I say that either was immoral or make any judgements about those who partake of either.

We good?
No bueno.

You contradict yourself here, seeming to compare them equally... but you wrote

"I still wrestle with the fact that, and it IS a fact, marijuana is a drug, and NOTHING but a drug, while alcohol is a byproduct contained in many delicious beverages that simply can not be made alcohol-free. I simply can't equate someone sipping a single glass of Chardonnay with someone taking a few hits on a blunt. One is a drug user, and one is not. "


You are all over the place. If they are both drugs then both are bought by drug users. I'm okay with different opinions, just not contradictory opinions held by one person.
 

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I think that liking the taste of alcoholic drinks has a lot to do with the brain liking the pleasant relaxing effect -- whether you realize that or not. A person who has never taken a drink of anything with alcohol will take a sip of any alcohol drink and think it tastes terrible. Because it does. It's only through experience that the brain develops a positive association between the pleasant effect of alcohol with the taste. Same thing with coffee/caffeine.
You're for sure correct about the "acquired taste" aspects, although I'm not convinced it's based, especially solely, on the brain's registration of the effect of alcohol. Lots of things are acquired tastes.. my wife used to hate raw oysters, blue cheese, and yes, scotch. She loves them all now. My daughter-in-law described one of my favorite bourbons as tasting like "paint thinner." Good.. more for me! :) Another future family member is actively teaching herself to like foods that she has avoided most of her life because she knows they're good for her (and because her fiancee is probably teasing her about being a picky eater). She's overcome her distaste for tomatoes and know likes them.

I drank too much Southern Comfort in college once. To this day I can't stand the taste of it and won't drink even a drop of it. That was almost forty years ago. Works both ways, I guess!

You definitely have a point.
 
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