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No bueno.

You contradict yourself here, seeming to compare them equally... but you wrote

"I still wrestle with the fact that, and it IS a fact, marijuana is a drug, and NOTHING but a drug, while alcohol is a byproduct contained in many delicious beverages that simply can not be made alcohol-free. I simply can't equate someone sipping a single glass of Chardonnay with someone taking a few hits on a blunt. One is a drug user, and one is not. "


You are all over the place. If they are both drugs then both are bought by drug users. I'm okay with different opinions, just not contradictory opinions held by one person.
Are we not engaging more in semantics than anything else? If you feel that having a glass of wine with dinner is using drugs, then that's your opinion and I'm not saying you are wrong to think that. I am saying that I don't agree with that assessment, that's all. By your definition, I am a drug user and am foisting drugs upon my guests when I include nutmeg in my bread puddings or sauces. Who am I to change your opinion? That's fine. I am not contradicting myself, however. The chardonnay-with-dinner person is not drinking their wine to catch an immediate (or any, unless they're chugging it or having two quickly) buzz, they're drinking it because they like the flavor and it goes well with their planked salmon. Therefore, they are not a "drug user".. they are not using the chardonnay as a drug. The fact that something CAN be used as a drug does not mean that it has to be used as a drug; taken in small quantities, it need not have the effect of a drug. If you take a hit or two from a joint, you will feel an almost immediate effect.. that's why you took the hit. You used a drug in order to get the effect from that drug.

AND.. one more time. I am not making a judgement about whether or not doing so is good or bad. That's up to the person doing so.
 

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So to put a sailing twist on this thread, we have discussed the mind altering effects of cannabis and chardonnay. They are both very real. You get a mild buzz off a single glass of wine, i do any ways, sometimes more, some times less, but you feel it.

Does sailing not create a mind altering effect? Okay, I know some cruisers are not that into sailing and view it as an efficient transportation method. I am not one of those people, thats not why I sail. I sail because its fun. There is an adrenaline rush when a hull flies, when a boat heels suddenly, when the boat accelerates through a gust, when you pull through a squall. Its an adrenaline rush caused by external stimulus and it keeps us coming back for more.

There are adrenaline junkies out there, people that need to take a risk for love of the rush. Most of us keep a lid on it, we will fly a hull, but know to cut it out before we flip. We'll go out in 25 knots, but think twice about 35 and forget about a hurricane. Its a well known phonomenon amongst Vendee sailors, they talk about the need to get back out there to fight nature, and it is a primary reason I gave up big boat sailing, it just isnt exciting enough and mistakes are too costly when you push them too hard. There are sailors who push it too far, not as common as motorcyclists, but it happens.

Certainly we wouldn't outlaw sailing because it can result in a mind altering effect? Is it not a mind altering effect caused by external stimulus that makes sailing "fun".
 

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LOL.. probably should have answered the original poster's question before "holding forth."

Offered any? Never. Came across one guy, 60-something-year-old, hunkered down underneath his bimini nursing a small pipe as the odor wafted across the dock. I stopped to ask him a question about how he had his reefs rigged (no pun intended), and he sheepishly hid the pipe. I told him I had no problem with it, but he didn't offer either, not that I would have accepted. Wouldn't have been offended, either.
 
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So to put a sailing twist on this thread, we have discussed the mind altering effects of cannabis and chardonnay. They are both very real. You get a mild buzz off a single glass of wine, i do any ways, sometimes more, some times less, but you feel it.

Does sailing not create a mind altering effect? Okay, I know some cruisers are not that into sailing and view it as an efficient transportation method. I am not one of those people, thats not why I sail. I sail because its fun. There is an adrenaline rush when a hull flies, when a boat heels suddenly, when the boat accelerates through a gust, when you pull through a squall. Its an adrenaline rush caused by external stimulus and it keeps us coming back for more.

There are adrenaline junkies out there, people that need to take a risk for love of the rush. Most of us keep a lid on it, we will fly a hull, but know to cut it out before we flip. We'll go out in 25 knots, but think twice about 35 and forget about a hurricane. Its a well known phonomenon amongst Vendee sailors, they talk about the need to get back out there to fight nature, and it is a primary reason I gave up big boat sailing, it just isnt exciting enough and mistakes are too costly when you push them too hard. There are sailors who push it too far, not as common as motorcyclists, but it happens.

Certainly we wouldn't outlaw sailing because it can result in a mind altering effect? Is it not a mind altering effect caused by external stimulus that makes sailing "fun".
Some good points. Sailing, and other adrenaline-inducing activites, are about "what can we do with our bodies and our minds," rather than "what can we do TO our bodies and our minds."
 
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Old soul
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...Certainly we wouldn't outlaw sailing because it can result in a mind altering effect? Is it not a mind altering effect caused by external stimulus that makes sailing "fun".
In that light, what activity isn’t “mind altering”? The brain is just a bunch of cells operating in a wet sack of drugs (hormones, neurotransmitters and other biochemicals). Pleasant or vigorous actives, like sailing, will encourage the release of endorphins which, amongst other things, “produce a feeling of euphoria very similar to that produced by other opioids.”

So we’re all doing drugs, all the time.

And speaking of that, it’s almost beer time. A fine IPA awaits!
 

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Land lubber
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if what you're describing is a significant portion of marijuana aficionados, I'm surprised I haven't run into anyone fitting your description in real life. The guys I know roll one or fill a bowl and enjoy the buzz. It's just different than savoring a Remy. It just is. Different is NOT a value judgement or condemnation of anything.
The vast majority of people who drink are not just savoring a fine scotch or wine either though... A significant portion of people who drink do not fall into that category. I would guess it is a small portion in the grand scheme of things.
 

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Everybody who drinks and/or tokes is looking for their Happy Place.
....a release, a brain stress dump...
There are some that think it makes them 'better' in certain situations.

Manage, manage.....

There, of course, some who feel more secure always being with a buzz. So they don't have to deal with life...unbuzzed..aka crutch.
 

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I haven't smoked, since college, and have no desire to start again. Eating a food product that causes intoxication has no appeal. But I do remember what everyone was like when smoking. Very different from drinking.

I have a question for the adult smokers now. Let's stick to the light to moderate, totally controlled consumption of either, not the abusers. Alcohol has varying effects on people. There are those that get happy or lose inhibition. There are those that get aggressive, which everyone hates being around (one theory is they suffer from depression and the alcohol makes it worse). There are those where this level of consumption is not noticeable at all, although, I know some won't accept that. In other words, a pretty wide spectrum of social reactions.

I've only been around a few adults now that have taken up the habit again. They've all had the same response, as best I can tell. I suspect there would be pushback, if I fully described it, so I won't. Let's say it's mellow and leave it at that.

My question is, are there people who display different social reactions to light to mod smoking, once the reaction is noticeable? Let's exclude those that some may claim show no signs. In this discussion, all booze and smoking users are lightly buzzed.

Bottom line is, there are some alcohol consumers I like to be around and some I really don't. It's obvious the latter are the aggressive ones. I have to admit, hoping not to offend, but I struggle with the social interaction with my adult friend's who are high. These are friends and I don't hold them in judgement. It's the change that I find hard to interact with. Are there different impacts on different people?
 

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Are we not engaging more in semantics than anything else? If you feel that having a glass of wine with dinner is using drugs, then that's your opinion . I am not contradicting myself, however. The chardonnay-with-dinner person is not drinking their wine to catch an immediate (or any, unless they're chugging it or having two quickly) buzz, they're drinking it because they like the flavor and it goes well with their planked salmon. Therefore, they are not a "drug user".. they are not using the chardonnay as a drug. .
Yes, I think so. The world of wine, I agree, is more culinary. I see that point. But I don't think it could be extended to scotchka.

It seems the marijuana world is catching on to that aspect, and indeed has it's own appeal.

In some sense we are talking apples and oranges. But I concede the culinary aspect of wine is worlds above pot. However you should try just a bit of sativa with a nice persecco and someone you love in front of a roaring fire after a day of skiing, or with duck for dinner. The appeal is there.
 

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.....I just don't socialize with anyone.
If you're happy, then I'm happy for you. We socialize with a lot of different people. A lot.

My question was not about me, but about whether smokers will exhibit different social traits from each other, when buzzed. I've not seen much variability, like I do with drinkers, but my sample set is a half dozen or so.
 

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Bottom line is, there are some alcohol consumers I like to be around and some I really don't. It's obvious the latter are the aggressive ones. I have to admit, hoping not to offend, but I struggle with the social interaction with my adult friend's who are high. These are friends and I don't hold them in judgement. It's the change that I find hard to interact with. Are there different impacts on different people?
From what I have observed in others, yes, very different. It seems some folks could have the exact same stuff and one person might get kind of dopey, while the other person mght become highly focused on a task- like cooking and do very well at it. Some athletes seem to have better flow.

Remember Ross Rebagliati? If you are a snowboarder you do, because he won the first ever Gold in Olympic Mens Giant Slalom Snowboarding and nearly had his medal revoked for testing positive for Marijuana, which sparked the debate in the Olympic community, is marijuana a performance enhancing drug. Ultimately he kept his medal, but not every one was happy about it.

There are also a huge variety of strains some of which dont really have any mellowing effect and some of which dont have really any hallucinogenic effect.

Not my town, but one of the next towns over has had its economy helped out by this thing too. There was a large manufacturing facility that shut down several years ago, leaving no manufacturing jobs in the area. A cannabis producer purchased the facility and turned it into a very large legal cannabis cultivation facility. Those were all "jobs" that were previously held by bikers producing plants with ever increasing potency, no quality control and paying no taxes. Now the company is doing R&D, producing multiple strains, both medical and recreational, providing jobs to the community and paying taxes- lots of them.
 

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Captain Obvious
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Minne

Like most things, it is how you manage it. At a fancy dinner party where conversation is key, no way. I want full cerebral cortex working so I can converse . At a music venue where its about loud music , dancing and laughing it up with spouse and friends, maybe. Its too loud to talk much anyway and some of our friends are a lot of laughs when the band takes a break. Cuddled up with wifey in front of the fire at home, or swimming in the pool on a Saturday evening...why not? Even, then...rarely and in moderation, moderation. What my friends might burn up in a month, would last us years.

I don't ever want anyone else, besides my wife and closest friends , to know I'm not 100%. After all I'm a 50+ year old man and I don't like to appear intoxicated. If I'm sailing, driving, any sports,motorcycling or work.... no bueno and no thanks. No way. I don't need the stupidity.I see the negatives.It is not important to our lifestyle but managed in a smarrt way, its not a negative. Not to splashing in the pool or just a relaxed time.

As I get older, I feel like my brain is getting slightly wiser, but definitely slower. This is age. Will the former win out over the latter? Will it matter at all? Hard to say....but making finer distinctions and less black and white pronouncements seems to be in the future.
 

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........and paying taxes- lots of them.
If there is an argument for addiction, it's this alone. Personally, I object to this being a good reason to legalize anything. The money always becomes a dependency to government. What would they do, if everyone stopped smoking and drinking the next day? It's argued that the funds will be devoted to abuse and rehabilitation, but if anyone believes that where it all goes, I have a bridge to sell them.

These taxes create dependency. They create a foundation under a society that can no longer choose.
 

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Two questions..

1. If pot didn't get you stoned, would you smoke it just for the taste?

2. Did the pot you smoked that tasted good truly taste good, or did you enjoy the taste because it was a harbinger of the buzz to come?

Honest answers to those two questions will probably result in a confirmation of my statement, but it's possible I'm wrong. People like all kinds of things. Check out the commercials about folks who still like cable tv... ;)
I would agree that smoking pot is primarily for the buzz although I have to say, some is quite tasty. If legal I would grow a couple of plants for the wonderful smell, they are quite aromatic.

However drinking alcoholic beverages only for the taste, maybe for wine, possibly for a nice craft beer but for whiskey, even a very nice single malt (which I can appreciate) no one would start drinking that because it tastes good. I can clearly remember my first tastes of distilled spirits and it was not tasty in any way to me.

Heard this before and in my opinion it's nothing more than a drinker's rationalization.
 

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My question is, are there people who display different social reactions to light to mod smoking, once the reaction is noticeable? Let's exclude those that some may claim show no signs. In this discussion, all booze and smoking users are lightly buzzed.
Someone feeling the effect of cannabis is generally more self-aware of the mood-altering effect, especially someone who does not use it often or who has taken more than intended. So such a person may be quieter in a social situation, or may seem distracted or withdrawn, probably more so when in the company of others who have not used any cannabis (the self-aware/self-conscious part). Some may go off on a tangent in a conversation and seemingly not realize it. That's about all you'll ever notice in my experience. It's very rare for someone to start acting inappropriately or to say or do things they wouldn't otherwise do, unlike some people under the effect of alcohol.

The way cannabis is going, it's going to become easier and easier to take a precisely measured dose and to have much more control over the effects, much like a drinker can have only 1 beer, or 2 beers, whatever they decide is the amount they are comfortable with. When this is the case with cannabis, and a person is comfortable with the effect, there's not really any noticeable difference in the person other than they may seem relaxed and happy, but normal relaxed and happy, not what I would call impaired/fake/fleeting relaxed and happy which is more how I would describe the effects alcohol.
 

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Old soul
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If there is an argument for addiction, it's this alone. Personally, I object to this being a good reason to legalize anything. The money always becomes a dependency to government.
There is a real problem with governments getting hooked on so-called sin taxes: booze, cigarettes, gambling are all biggies. Now add cannabis. But as they say, the alternative is worse. Prohibition only costs societies.

At least by legalizing and then taxing, the public at large can start to benefit from an activity many choose to do, regardless of legality. The alternative is to continue to fund criminals, and waste money on silly ‘war on drugs’ approaches.
 
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