[Tim R.]

My father in law was sailing his Etap 39 on Tuesday. When he arrived that day he noticed more water in the bilges than usual. He had previously changed out the speed transducer for the plug(something he does every time he leaves the boat) so he figured it was from that. He sailed the boat hard all day and spent the night. No problems wed morning when he left the boat. He gets a call from the marina on Thursday morning telling him his boat was sitting low in the water at the mooring and they found 3 ft. of water inside the cabin. They pumped it and hauled it for survey. A mechanic found a clear 1/2" hose connected to a thru hull with no seacock. The other end came disconnecedt from somewhere in the engine compartment but he did not know where. Surveyor will likely figure it out when he gets there.

The Etap has floatations foam as hull core and this boat can be completely holed without sinking. It could have been that the water did reach equilibrium at 3 ft. inside but am not sure.

Engine, batteries, woodwork, refrigeration, upholstery, wiring, etc all submerged. Probably totaled.

Anyone have any idea what this hose might have been for? I thought maybe a breather for a dripless shaft seal but I think this boat has a sail drive.

As for the story above, this was how it was related to me from my FIL who relies mainly on the yard for commissioning and maintenance,

 

[celenoglu]

A clear hose is never a good idea, most probably installed later by one of the owners. Make sure you install a seacock and proper hose if it is really necessary.

Some surveyors insist on double hose clamps for underwater connections. A hose above water level easily becomes underwater if the clamp fails. Make sure to use double clamps on every connection.

 

[deniseO30]

Hope he had insurance! It's kind of silly to speculate what happened.

 

[Sabreman]

This is what I love about SailNet.... This thread got me thinking ...

I have a PSS shaft seal with a breather hose. When I installed it, I ran the hose to the underside of the cockpit floor and made a small loop. But the end is open and that had made me nervous. In the 9 years since I installed it, there has been no water coming into the boat from the hose, even under the most vigorous conditions.

Is there any downside to installing a small ball valve near the open end? As long as I briefly open it when launching in the spring, I can't think of a reason that it needs to be open.

 

[Maine Sail]

A mechanic found a clear 1/2" hose connected to a thru hull with no seacock. The other end came disconnecedt from somewhere in the engine compartment but he did not know where. Surveyor will likely figure it out when he gets there.

:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

#1 No Seacock

#2 Seacock left open (had to, no seacock)

#3 Clear PVC hose for below water is a HUGE NO NO. This hose is for fish tanks...

Your FIL has bad luck with boats.... Sorry to hear of his loss but at least he got to test the positive floatation of the ETAP....

Likely also had crappy, substandard perforated hose clamps.....

This one I found yesterday at about 2:00 PM on a 30 foot lobster boat. It was the ONLY hose clamp...

 

[deniseO30]

Guess I'm in trouble with MS again I have this clear type on my PSS because I want to see the water.

"Clear reinforced PVC FDA approved hose for potable water uses. Tasteless, odorless and non-toxic. Series 164 for cold water use has a blue tracer, 150 psi/wp. Series 162 for cold or hot water use has a red and blue tracer, 175 psi/wp. Not recommended for use below the waterline. OPS Temp 20° to +150° F. 2 Year warranty. "

----
But this is available:
Reinforced PVC - Clear White with Blue Tracer - Series No. 164

Clear White Blue Tracer PVC Tubing has a white FDA formula vinyl tube. It has a clear vinyl cover, polyester braid reinforcement and 250# psi burst pressure. This hose is primarily used for pressurized water system supply (hot or cold), drain lines (sink, shower , icebox), wash down pump connections and head intake.
Applications

May Kink in Applications: - (Flexibility - 3)
Designed to give Excellent Service for:
• Non-Pressurized Supply
• Pressurized Supply: cold
Designed to give Good Service in normal Applications:
• Pressurized Supply: hot
• Drain Lines Below Water Line
• Drain Lines To Sump or Above Water Line
• Water Tank Vent

 

[capta]

Maine Sail,
What are your feelings about the pex water piping systems (or equivalent) for hot and cold pressure water systems aboard sailboats?

 

[Jaramaz]

Engine, batteries, woodwork, refrigeration, upholstery, wiring, etc all submerged. Probably totaled.

Sorry about the loss ...

Don't really see why engine & woodwork should be totalled. Uphostery is likely to be, fridge probably, wiring better to swap.

Where I live, most boats are put on land during winter (which always is hard ...), and when launching there are always some that doesn't really make it. Engines use to survive. Woodwork may get some damage, in particular if it isn't wood.

If insurance ... then it is another matter.

E39 looks nice otherwise.

/J

 

[capt vimes]

aren't etap yachts regarded as "unsinkable"?

 

[capta]

Sorry about the loss ...

Don't really see why engine & woodwork should be totalled. Woodwork may get some damage, in particular if it isn't wood.
/J

Unless this is an amazingly well built boat, woodwork on most production boats built in the last 30 years is veneer on plywood, which will NOT stand up to sea water immersion. It may not be immediately apparent, but in time the delamination of the plywood can become a serious problem.

 

[MedSailor]

My father in law was sailing his Etap 39 on Tuesday. When he arrived that day he noticed more water in the bilges than usual. He had previously changed out the speed transducer for the plug(something he does every time he leaves the boat) so he figured it was from that. He sailed the boat hard all day and spent the night. No problems wed morning when he left the boat. He gets a call from the marina on Thursday morning telling him his boat was sitting low in the water at the mooring and they found 3 ft. of water inside the cabin. ...

Why?

MedSailor

 

[christian.hess]

so it wont get fouled...very common in some places

 

[MedSailor]

so it wont get fouled...very common in some places

Ahhh... makes sense.

If I were to do this, I'd have to idiot proof it by attaching the engine key to the plug.

MedSailor

 

[Capt Len]

Doesn't take much of a fire to leave thruhulls naked.And after the fire is extinguished will continue to fill the boat if you can't shut it. Spent some time in a smouldering 50 ft hull in Alicante, whittling plugs to save whats left.

 

[eherlihy]

Guess I'm in trouble with MS again I have this clear type on my PSS because I want to see the water.

...Why do you want to see the water?

I have 3/8" ID Trident exhaust hose on my PSS. Double hose clamps. It extends well above the waterline just below the hatch on the lazerette, and as a result I don't need anything to catch any drips.

... and I already know that I'll catch hell for the perforated hose clamps, but can't find them (at a realistic price) unless you buy a whole box.

 

[eherlihy]

Tim,

What year Etap? I thought that they were a higher end, but quirky, boat. (kind of like the Saab of boats). I can't believe that a boat built after 1985 would NOT have a seacock on every through hull.

 

[Jaramaz]

What year Etap? I thought that they were a higher end, but quirky, boat. (kind of like the Saab of boats). I can't believe that a boat built after 1985 would NOT have a seacock on every through hull.

1) Why 1985?
2) Quirky?
3) How do you know that this boat was not originally fitted with a seacock?

Clearly some assumptions here.

Do not see the relevance of these matters now. We all agree, I guess, that there should be seacocks and so on - but that is not the issue now.

/J

 

[Tim R.]

More info provided by father in law. Appr. 1" hose attached to a seacockt running vertical in engine compartment. Open end attached to bulkhead in engine compartment. Hose is clear reinforced hose that is attached to bulkhead using cheap nylon wire loom clamp. There are a couple 3/8" hoses that are loosely fed into the open end of the hose. One appears to be the fresh water cooling overflow tube. He was not sure what the other is. Camp came loose and open end of hose fell below waterline and flooded boat. FIL's surveyor claims design defect. Insurance stipulates no coverage for design defect. Insurance adjuster has not surveyed boat yet. No mention of this seacock or it's purpose in the owners manual. Engine is Volvo sail drive. This was a sinking waiting to happen although could have been prevented if seacock had been closed. Still could have easily occurred while sailing/motoring with seacock open. I have seen a photo of this arrangement but am hesitant to post here as thie situation will likely be litigated.

 

[capta]

More info provided by father in law. Appr. 1" hose attached to a seacockt running vertical in engine compartment. Open end attached to bulkhead in engine compartment. Hose is clear reinforced hose that is attached to bulkhead using cheap nylon wire loom clamp. There are a couple 3/8" hoses that are loosely fed into the open end of the hose. One appears to be the fresh water cooling overflow tube. He was not sure what the other is. Camp came loose and open end of hose fell below waterline and flooded boat. FIL's surveyor claims design defect. Insurance stipulates no coverage for design defect. Insurance adjuster has not surveyed boat yet. No mention of this seacock or it's purpose in the owners manual. Engine is Volvo sail drive. This was a sinking waiting to happen although could have been prevented if seacock had been closed. Still could have easily occurred while sailing/motoring with seacock open. I have seen a photo of this arrangement but am hesitant to post here as thie situation will likely be litigated.

I don't see this as a design defect as I'd bet dollars to donuts that the designer never even dreamed anyone would do something so stupid. It also does not sound like anything the a Volvo installer would do. Sounds like another person afraid of thru-hulls who wanted to minimize the number of holes in the boat, so they consolidated several exhaust lines into one thru-hull.
If there's any liability here, as I see it, it can only lay with the last surveyor to survey the boat, and they specifically state they take no responsibility for any errors or inaccuracies in their very expensive reports, on those very expensive reports.
Where does the liability rest, legally? I don't have a clue, but I don't understand why any owner would allow such a ridiculous system aboard his boat for longer than it would take to fix it, no matter the cost.

 

[WoobaGooba]

...Why do you want to see the water?

I have 3/8" ID Trident exhaust hose on my PSS. Double hose clamps. It extends well above the waterline just below the hatch on the lazerette, and as a result I don't need anything to catch any drips.

... and I already know that I'll catch hell for the perforated hose clamps, but can't find them (at a realistic price) unless you buy a whole box.

Whats the story with the fuse holder suspended near the upper right?