[datswite]

We're wrapping up our refit and will be leaving for a long-term cruise starting this summer. We're heading first to the Caribbean... from there? Who knows?

Anyway, our boat does not have a boom vang. It's setup for mid-boom sheeting. Trying to decide if our precious pennies would better saved than retrofitting a boom vang.

Any thoughts?

Don't Pay the Ransom - Bucking the system one sunset at a time!

 

[Faster]

You definitely want a boom vang. Mid boom sheeting does not 'help' with leech tension when you're broad reaching and running (you'll be doing plenty of reaching in strong breezes and occasionally big seas) A good vang helps to control gybes as well, I'll sound like a broken record but I consider a vang an essential piece of safety gear, even in a small boat.

You have a beefy boat with plenty of power in the rig, as far as I'm concerned a good vang is as essential as a good winch. It need not be a rigid vang, if money is really an issue a simple (but strong) multipart tackle will do in combination with a topping lift, but a rigid vang is cleaner.

 

[MikeOReilly]

I don't have a vang on our current boat, and I wish I did. That said, I get by without an installed vang. We have end-boom sheeting, a long heavy boom, and I use a tackle as a vang/semi-preventer when running off the wind. So yes, I'd prefer an installed vang, but so far we get by pretty well without it.

 

[nolatom]

You can improvise with a preventer and your mainsheet at the lee end of the traveller sharing the load. Problem is, any trim or ease involves two trimming systems, a pain in the neck. And it will not assist in keeping the upper mainsail and leech "down" during a jibe, which is preferable.

So yes to vang. As one who grew up racing, it's a must-have. And it will give you better speed cruising too.

The only disadvantage I can see is if you ever get into an accidental jibe-knockdown, you want the boom end to be able to ride up so the main won't be "overtrimmed" by the ocean against the boom. But vangs are releasable, just make sure you can release it from the cockpit.

 

[vega1860]

I don't have a vang on our current boat, and I wish I did. That said, I get by without an installed vang. We have end-boom sheeting, a long heavy boom, and I use a tackle as a vang/semi-preventer to when running off the wind. So yes, I'd prefer an installed vang, but so far we get by pretty well without it.

Same situation on a Vega with roller reefing main. You need to run a vang/preventer from the end of the boom sailing off the wind. It can be a little awkward, but you do need it.

 

[eherlihy]

To put my answer in context; the boats that I teach on here in SW Florida all have vangs, outhauls, Cunninghams, adjustable split backstays, travelers and a bunch of other stuff. My boat in Rhode Island has a vang, an outhaul, and a traveler (no adjustable backstay, and no Cunningham).

To me, the vang is next in priority after the mainsheet, the outhaul, and the traveler in terms of sail shape, and therefore usefulness. If you plan to motor a lot, save your money for fuel, otherwise spend the $100-$200 on a vang (see here; Garhauer Marine Hardware -10239695), or the $300-$900 on a rigid vang (and ditch the topping lift) (see here; Garhauer Marine Hardware -10239696)

 

[RobGallagher]

I like the "ditch the topping lift" for a solid vang idea. One less thing to go wrong up there, no worries chaffing the main leach, no worries if it breaks and the boom whacks someone.

 

[SVAuspicious]

A good vang helps to control gybes as well

Pardon? A vang, even moved to the rail or a shroud base is not an effective preventer. Look at the geometry and calculate the force vectors.

I like the "ditch the topping lift" for a solid vang idea. One less thing to go wrong up there, no worries chaffing the main leach, no worries if it breaks and the boom whacks someone.

Assuming a running topping lift, a solid vang means you can have a spare main halyard without modifying the masthead.

 

[Faster]

Pardon? A vang, even moved to the rail or a shroud base is not an effective preventer. Look at the geometry and calculate the force vectors.

Not talking about gybe prevention.. but management. A vang's limitation of boom lift during the gybe can prevent an accidental "goosewing gybe"

 

[datswite]

Thanks for the comments... keep them coming! I'm leaning towards getting one, but, as you might imagine, there are far too many opportunities to spend money you don't have during a refit.

@MikeOReilly - Are you still happy with your Porta-Bote? I appreciated the discussions you've participated in regarding their use as tenders. Frankly, those discussions played a large role in helping us decide to get one. As luck would have it, after we decided that we wanted to get one, they agreed to sign on as partner to our voyage. We got a 10' a few weeks ago, and we're excited to try it out!

 

[SVAuspicious]

Not talking about gybe prevention.. but management. A vang's limitation of boom lift during the gybe can prevent an accidental "goosewing gybe"

Ah. Thank you. Excellent point. You still need a real preventer.

 

[Faster]

Ah. Thank you. Excellent point. You still need a real preventer.

Indeed...

 

[eherlihy]

Assuming a running topping lift, a solid vang means you can have a spare main halyard without modifying the masthead.

NIT: not necessarily; the topping lift on my boat is comprised of a SS wire from the top of the mast to about 10' off the cockpit soule. There is an eye on the end of the wire, and a block attached to that eye. There is a line that runs from the goose neck through a shiv at the end of the boom, then to the block, and back to the boom where it is fastened.

Tightening the topping lift, means a trip to the mast, where I pull on the line that runs through the boom.

 

[RobGallagher]

If you have a topping lift and it's not going to be replaced on your refit, you could always wait on the solid vang. When you do get the solid vang you might find uses for that vang.

A vang with snap shackles on both ends can double as a preventer, MOB retrieval aid, back up mainsheet, lift an outboard, get the dinghy on deck, the list goes on. It's a good thing to have around as for purchase power when you don't want to run back and forth to a winch.

On my last sail of the season the shackle holding my mainsheet to the boom fell apart and bent beyond repair. I keep my old vang/preventer in the cockpit lazarette. A couple of snaps and it got my boom under control and allowed me to continue sailing while I reassembled my mainsheet.

 

[SVAuspicious]

NIT: not necessarily; the topping lift on my boat is comprised of a SS wire from the top of the mast to about 10' off the cockpit soule.

Which is why I cited running topping lifts. My point is that if there is a sheave at the masthead you should use it. If not, and you have a fixed vang, you probably still want something to hold the boom up when a seal fails or for some other reason the vang doesn't work.

 

[Omatako]

Pardon? A vang, even moved to the rail or a shroud base is not an effective preventer. Look at the geometry and calculate the force vectors.

So I guess you're talking about taking nthe vang off the base of the mast and moving it to the toe-rail? In that case I agree. I use a 4:1 vang boom to mast base and then another exact copy to the toe rail when running off the wind. Total gybe control.

. . . . . you probably still want something to hold the boom up when a seal fails or for some other reason the vang doesn't work.

I'm not familiar with solid vangs having never had one. I always thought they had a beefy spring inside that threatened to push the vang out to max length which was then controlled by a rope block system to keep it at a chosen length/boom height. The above comment suggests that these things may be hydraulic?

I was also thinking about a solid vang but if they're hydraulic I'll pass.

 

[TakeFive]

OK, so the vang-as-preventer question has always bothered me, so I might as well ask it here (hijack alert).

My boat has swept back spreaders, so I can't allow the boom out very far when running, otherwise the mainsail stresses the rig by pushing forward against the spreader and upper shroud. This creates difficult geometry for a preventer, since it's a LONG way from the end of the boom to the bow, and the angle is not all that favorable.

It almost seems like it would be better to remove the vang from the mast base and attach it to the base of a stanchion. Then I'd have 4:1 purchase which could allow me to release the cam cleat under tension. But I've been told that such an arrangement is dangerous. Sounds like opinions here on that arrangement are mixed.

I'd like to hear some further discussion on the pros/cons of doing this, and since we're talking about uses for a boom vang, maybe it's not a hijack after all.

Right now I typically sail in flat enough waters that I don't need a preventer, and I tend to avoid the issue by using genoa/whisker pole with no main if I have to sail DDW. But it would be nice to know what I should do if I find myself in rolly seas and need a preventer.

 

[Omatako]

It almost seems like it would be better to remove the vang from the mast base and attach it to the base of a stanchion. Then I'd have 4:1 purchase which could allow me to release the cam cleat under tension. But I've been told that such an arrangement is dangerous. Sounds like opinions here on that arrangement are mixed.

As mentioned in my earlier post, I use a rope block system as a vang which controls the vertical position of the boom and when running off the wind I have a second identical setup (that I call a preventer) that connects to the same spot on the boom as the vang but the other end goes to the leeward toe rail. That allows total control over crash gybes and sail shape (IMHO). I guess this depends on geometry of your boom and whether you have a toe rail that can be clipped onto.

It's cheap and effective - the only reason I want a solid boom supporter is to be able to dispose of the topping lift for an almost frivolous reason.

 

[TakeFive]

I do not have a toe rail, but I do have a well-placed stanchion with a bail welded to to its base. The angle of attack would be pretty good.

But the attachment point on the boom is only about 1/4 of the way down the boom ('cause that's where vangs attach!). If backwinded, the forces at that point could be pretty high (entire force of the sail concentrated at the one point), and might damage the stanchion or buckle the boom. That's the issue that Auspicious is referring to.

 

[Bill-Rangatira]

I do not have a toe rail, but I do have a well-placed stanchion with a bail welded to to its base. The angle of attack would be pretty good.

But the attachment point on the boom is only about 1/4 of the way down the boom ('cause that's where vangs attach!). If backwinded, the forces at that point could be pretty high (entire force of the sail concentrated at the one point), and might damage the stanchion or buckle the boom. That's the issue that Auspicious is referring to.

that would be substantial mechanical advantage in favour of the wind
good way to fold bend or snap a boom