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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
As I've mentioned elsewhere, I've just bought a 1986 CS30, my first boat, and am learning my way around it. I've just found a problem and am kicking myself for not having caught this before I bought the boat.

The plate where the vang is attached has been nearly pulled out in one corner. The surveyor didn't catch this either.

Anyway, I have two questions. First, how much is it going to cost me to fix this? (It seems to still be solid, no movement in the plate, but obviously it's compromised.) Second, upon studying the setup I'm beginning to wonder if the vang is improperly attached and the mainsheet and vang tackles should switch places. Can anyone tell me if it's properly set up?

See the following photo to see what I mean

Actually, on second thought, that seems like the right setup because otherwise the mainsheet and vang lines will get tangled. Yet, it seems odd that the vang loading is all on one side of the plate, not centered or anything.

 

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I wouldn't be concerned about the arrangement with the attachment points for the vang and mainsheet, respectively. The vang is only slightly off-center -- shouldn't be an issue.

As for repairing the mast attachment plate for the vang, again it doesn't seem like a big job. I doubt you'd even need to replace the plate -- you should be able to bend it back. If not, a new plate would not be very expensive (relatively speaking;) ).

I can't tell if those are rivets or screws holding it in place. But it would probably be best to remove them and replace with a heavier fastener. You might have to shift the plate up or down a half inch or so and re-tap, or maybe not even.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
They're rivets. And yeah, I was hoping to do some heavy weather sailing, "break" the new boat in, so to speak. But not the sort of sailing where the vang tears the whole plate loose from the mast!

So I like your advice of moving the plate up and finding something stronger to attach it. I could be wrong, but to me rivets don't seem strong at all. Plus there's the problem of not having a rivet gun in my arsenal.
 

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The mainsheet goes to the base of the mast and back again? How exactly does that work?

I don't know, because I don't know your boat, but I suspect something's mis-rigged. I suspect that point where that block's attached that you have labeled "mainsheet" is actually the boom vang attachment point. That set of four bails to which it's currently attached doesn't look strong enough for a vang, to me.

Jim
 

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Belliure 41'
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This looks a bit dangerous as the plate on the bottom on the mast is clearly over loaded between the vang, Cunningham? and 2 reefing lines(looks like single line reefs running aft). To answer your question, no the vang should not be attached to the deck plate for the mast. Where the vang is currently located appears to be correct however everything else overloading that attachment point needs to go. It also looks like the mast plate has been distorted after the rivet failed. Pull the plate off, flatten it, drill out the old holes, tap the holes and use new machine screws to attach it. I would also relocate the Cunningham and reefing lines if possible.

Mainsheet running from the outboard end of the boom, down to the traveler, back up to the outboard end of the boom, down the boom to mast base and back to a winch and stopper on the cabin top is common for high load race boats. I’m not sure yours would qualify but if you have enough line and good blocks I would keep it. Note, this setup usually requires a good crew as the helm can’t adjust the main sheet from the wheel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
<snip>
Where the vang is currently located appears to be correct however everything else overloading that attachment point needs to go.
<snip>
Yeah, the everything else you see there are the reefing lines and outhaul. I've been googling the Isomat Autoreef system, which is the reefing system I have, and I suspect the reefing blocks should at least be on either side, not all one one side. Probably attached to the mast deckplate too, as I figure reefing loads aren't as much as vang and mainsheet loads.
Mainsheet running from the outboard end of the boom, down to the traveler, back up to the outboard end of the boom, down the boom to mast base and back to a winch and stopper on the cabin top is common for high load race boats. I'm not sure yours would qualify but if you have enough line and good blocks I would keep it. Note, this setup usually requires a good crew as the helm can't adjust the main sheet from the wheel.
I definitely don't qualify as a racer. I'm going to try to singlehand this baby. If you have a suggestion for that, I'm all ears!
 

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Hey,

As a quick suggestion, why not just take the vang off? IMHO, the vang doesn't do that much anyway. You can take the line off until you figure out a better way of attaching it, like to a block mounted on the deck behind the mast.

Barry
 

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Don’t remove your vang, you need it! I would never sail a boat without one as they can spill air out of the sail and lighten the loads on the helm. Vangs do so much more but I’m not going to write a novel on it.

Correct, spread the reefing blocks out to distribute the load and balance the looks. Make sure the mast deck plate is strong as the loads will be somewhere in the 1,000 to 2,000 lbs. range (max).

If you are going to single hand with the main sheet in on top of your coach roof then you will need one of two things, an autopilot or REALLY long arms. When single handing a boat the main should never be out of arms reach when you have to take the helm. I would suggest pulling the main back to the traveler (assuming your traveler goes across the cockpit and not above the doghouse and use a course/fine adjustment on it. I believe Harken makes a nice kit.
 

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Hey,

As a quick suggestion, why not just take the vang off? IMHO, the vang doesn't do that much anyway.
IMO you couldn't be more wrong. In fact: The longer I sail, particularly the more I race, the more important I find the lowly boom vang.

We used it yesterday, racing, on all points-of-sail, when the air was light and the water a bit bouncy, to keep the boom down. Naturally it didn't have much effect when we were hard on the wind, but neither did it hurt.

(Tho, next time, I really need to remember to ease the durned thing before trimming the main halyard. I'm lucky I didn't break something.)

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yeah, I'm a newbie and I can't see how else I can control sail twist, especially downwind. I'll be keeping the vang!

Mind, I saw a boat that had no vang and no traveller, just a split mainsheet running to either side of the boom. Even then I couldn't see how the dude could control sail twist with that setup.
 

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Vang

Guys,

To clarify, I am not suggesting that you take the vang off and discard it. I am suggesting that if you feel the attachment point on the mast is damaged, and you are worried about breaking something, that you can remove the vang and keep sailing until you can properly mount it

I did write that the vang doesn't do that much, and I continue to believe that. Perhaps if you are racing the vang is more important than just casual sailing, but even racing I don't think it does that much. On my boat (non racing) I have used the vang maybe 2 or 3 times in the three years I have owned by boat. Maybe it's just me, but I just don't find the vang all that useful. Upwind it doesn't do anything. Downwind it can be useful, but for some reason I just don't sail downwind all that often. On a reach I find my self using the traveler a lot more than the vang.

AFAIK, the main sheet is used to control sail twist for all points of sail except a run. And on a run a little more twist isn't going to really effect speed anyway.

I'll try to play with my vang some more, but I don't expect to see dramatic changes.

Barry
 

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That vang plate looks more like it was forced up against something. I can't picture the load that would bend one corner without affecting another. You probably will have the same problem singlehanding that vang that I do. Namely the cam cleat on the mast block. The way they are set, you can only increase your vang tension, not release. I will be swapping the blocks on mine. It means one more line hanging above the companionway but at least they are all in the same place.

Spreading the loads on the mast plate would be a good idea even if it is just for aesthetics. Gotta remember your feng shui in your rigging. :)
 
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