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Welcome. I would stay in the 16-22ft range to start off in and learn in. There are plenty of small boats like that around for well under 6k. Look around the lake and see what others are sailing, also its a great idea if there is a sailing club in your area to go down and just start talking . If they do racing everyone is looking for crew and you should be able to get on a boat and LEARN. You will learn what you don't know and then some. You will also get a feel for what you might want in a boat. Have fun sailing is addictive!
 

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You don't want an iron keel that's mostly rust. I've never seen a C22 centerboard that didn't have at least some corrosion/rust. You are going to be seeing a piece of iron that's been immersed in water and exposed to the air for 40 years. The keel on this 1981 boat will probably have a rough, uneven surface with dings and dents, even when covered with bottom paint. That's ok; l've never seen a really fair swing keel on a C22. What you want to make sure of is that the keel is all there (no big chunks missing), and that it is not rotting away under the paint. Tap it with a plastic or rubber hammer; if it's rotten, you will feel it. You may even knock off a chunk. Not good. And you not only want to see the condition of the keel, you need to see the condition of the cable pendent and the fitting that attaches it to the swing keel, and that the crank mechanism works. Remember, the only way you know if the cable is attached to the keel and that the crank works is if you actually see the board swivel into the hull from below.
 

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I don't know what that means.... won't I know if it works by whether or not the keel moves up when cranked?
Take a look at the drawing on this webpage. It shows what the board looks like up and down. The swing keel pivots on a pin at it's front, and swings up into a slot in the bottom of the hull. A wire pendent runs from the trailing edge of the swing keel up into the hull to a crank mechanism in the cabin.

Because you can't see how much pendent line is out or on the crank, the only way you know if the board is up or down is if you put the full number of turns on the crank (up or down). And my recollection is that the crank feels the same whether it's taking the line up or down or not working at all. So if the pendent is broken or the board is jammed, you won't know unless you actually witness the board moving.

 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Take a look at the drawing on this webpage. It shows what the board looks like up and down. The swing keel pivots on a pin at it's front, and swings up into a slot in the bottom of the hull. A wire pendent runs from the trailing edge of the swing keel up into the hull to a crank mechanism in the cabin.

Because you can't see how much pendent line is out or on the crank, the only way you know if the board is up or down is if you put the full number of turns on the crank (up or down). And my recollection is that the crank feels the same whether it's taking the line up or down or not working at all. So if the pendent is broken or the board is jammed, you won't know unless you actually witness the board moving.

Thanks, that makes sense. Is the "pendant" just an anchor of some kind at the end of the cable that is visible on the bottom trailing end of the keel? I'll know it when I see it? If the cable itself goes bad over time, are they replaceable?
I asked him to bring the trailer tomorrow and he said he wouldn't have time, but if we agree on purchase we just won't exchange money until we pull the boat out so I can inspect underneath. He told me that he "guarantees the keel will be totally rusty and there is no damage to the bottom of the boat". I'll verify conditions before purchasing.
Lastly... when I do get the boat out of the water, will the crank still raise and lower the keel or does that only work while in water? I don't know the trailer setup, so not sure if it allows room for dropping the keel or not.
 

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I don't remember the actual configuration of how the pendent is attached to the swing keel. And yes, you can replace the cable, but I'm no expert in how to do so. The cranking mechanism works in or out of the water. Here's a link to the C22 owner's manual. There are also Facebook groups and owner's forums for the C22 where you can get some real expert advice.

 

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currently... I called asking about slip availability. For longer, I have to get on a waiting list. Not a big deal, I'd just have to trailer launch until a slip became available. I'm actually going to go test sail a Cat22 at this marina tomorrow morning that already has a dock slip paid for for the year, which would alleviate the problem. I found it listed and just contacted the owner after your post above. It's cheap and comes with a poor quality trailer (would need trailer work, which I can do) and the paid dock slip. It would need bottom paint. He says it's in good condition, but I think it would at a minimum need cosmetic work. It's an 81 for 2750. He says it is a Gen 1 and has the "iron swing keel"...not sure exactly what that means to me. I'd rather spend a little extra money and get a really well cared for boat and trailer, but this may be too convenient to pass up, already being in the water at my small little local lake and all....
Cool. If you would be lucky enough to get the boat AND slip, that presents some advantages. You're always rigged. Sailing is more spontaneous.That is nice because then you can sail only on days of your choosing. You can take the fam out on great sailing days and skip the gnarly ones. Keeps it positive. You can use the marina facilities. You can sail an hour and park it. And, some days you'll just go to the boat and have lunch!
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I went on my first sail today. It was awesome...truly enjoyed it. The boat was fairly rough, but for 2750 I somewhat expected that. It sailed well, the sails were old but in what appears to me to be good condition. It badly needs painted. The wood was dry and rough. the top had some light spiderweb cracking of the fiberglass. The owner has never tested any of the lights. I know the mast light won't work bc I could see the wire was disconnected at the bottom of the mast... the rest I have no clue. He's told me the trailer is rough and will need bearings, tires, possibly some welding of the front stopper block post (?), new electric.... sounds like its the basis of a trailer but needs much work. The Mariner 9.9 ran but was definitely rough.
Bottom line, I could sail it in the daytimes and probably sell it and get most of my money back in the spring. I'm attracted to the low price and dock slip it comes with. It would be something to practice in. But... I'm also hesitant to put myself in a position to do that much work or have to change boats so soon.
 

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Hi,
I'm brand new to sailing. I've had 6 or 7 small (14' - 23') motorboats for fishing/skiing, etc... but never been on a sailboat. My wife did take a sailing course in college, but hasn't been on a boat since and insists she'll be starting over from scratch (though I question that... my wife's brain is a steel trap).
I'm probably 5-10 years away from retirement (which will put me in my low/mid 50's and still fairly physically capable), and I have developed the interest in looking at becoming a recreational ocean sailer in retirement. Honestly... I've gotten the interest in trying to spend half the year on a sailboat in the Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico or off coast of Panama/Costa Rica...something like that - but my wife assures me that's not going to happen while married to her. I realize that dream puts me into the large class of "gunners" as I've seen MarkOfSeaLife put it...but hopefully I'll rise above that.
So... to begin my journey of preparing myself for some version of this I need to get learning. I'm looking for a small boat that I can sail on my local lake alone (or with a kid/wife), and I'm going to continue watching videos and doing some reading to learn. Hopefully I'll find someone at our local sailing club that maybe I can pay to go out with me a few times and give me some lessons.
My first question would be -- any recommendations for a total newbie like myself on a good book to read to gain knowledge of the mechanics and physics of sailing and to learn the general layout and gear, etc. of boat types?
Second... and I know I'm getting ahead of myself here and shouldn't rush into anything (aka - take the time to make a good decision).... there is an '89 J/22 for sale near me for 6k that I'm thinking of picking up. I know that's not the longterm boat I want, but my thought is start small to learn for a year or two, then move into a 30 footer for a few years, then be ready for a 40-50' boat when bigger water time rolls around in retirement. Would a J22 be a good learner boat. At 6K, if I sink it the world doesn't end :)

Thanks!
Sounds like you have a good plan. Welcome, there are plenty of viewpoints here from one end of the spectrum to the other. Have fun!
 

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I went on my first sail today. It was awesome...truly enjoyed it. The boat was fairly rough, but for 2750 I somewhat expected that. It sailed well, the sails were old but in what appears to me to be good condition. It badly needs painted. The wood was dry and rough. the top had some light spiderweb cracking of the fiberglass. The owner has never tested any of the lights. I know the mast light won't work bc I could see the wire was disconnected at the bottom of the mast... the rest I have no clue. He's told me the trailer is rough and will need bearings, tires, possibly some welding of the front stopper block post (?), new electric.... sounds like its the basis of a trailer but needs much work. The Mariner 9.9 ran but was definitely rough.
Bottom line, I could sail it in the daytimes and probably sell it and get most of my money back in the spring. I'm attracted to the low price and dock slip it comes with. It would be something to practice in. But... I'm also hesitant to put myself in a position to do that much work or have to change boats so soon.
You may not want to get a different boat in the spring. One of the "joys" of boat ownership is the maintenance. Every boat needs it. You may find that you just don't care that much about the teak, and you'd rather spend your time sailing. When I bought my first big boy boat (an Oday 23), the teak was completely unfinished and a bit rough. I resolved to do a better job than the PO and make it shine. But when it came down to it, I sailed that boat as is for many years before I decided to tackle the teak. I just couldn't justify spending my valuable boat time doing cosmetic jobs rather than sailing. Same issue with the nav lights. Some of them worked, but most didn't. Turns out that I really never sailed at night anyway (still don't), so it was a non-issue. I eventually tackled the lights project more as a fun project than a necessity.

I'd be more concerned about the trailer. If he's telling you it needs that much work, it may very well need more.

And when you say the boat needs painting, what are you referring to? Is it the hull/deck itself (i.e., fading/failing gel coat or previously painted), or is it the teak or what?
 

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yep, any money you spend to upgrade the boat you can probably kiss goodbye when it comes time to sell it. You'll hear the phrase: the best boat upgrades are those done by the previous owner and from a monetary standpoint it's very true. The J22 is a very popular boat because you need one if you're going to enter one of the many racing regattas. But we're not talking about the America's Cup here. You could easily learn the basics of sailing on a boat like this but the larger boat you'll probably end up with (35' to 40') will be much more stable in ocean crossings - it'll also cost more to maintain, but hey, I doubt you'll get your wife doing any overnighters on a 22' boat. She's going to want a decent head and galley but this dream takes root. For now , lake sailing is kind of tricky in that the wind can be extremely variable (more learning experience) The upside is that fresh water is easier on the boat than salt water. Learn as much as you can on this puppy while spending the least amount possible and sell it when you're ready to upgrade. The big mistake is over investing in a boat you don't intend to keep.

Ps. As long as you keep it on the lake, you won't need any lights as it'll all be day sailing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
You may not want to get a different boat in the spring. One of the "joys" of boat ownership is the maintenance. Every boat needs it. You may find that you just don't care that much about the teak, and you'd rather spend your time sailing. When I bought my first big boy boat (an Oday 23), the teak was completely unfinished and a bit rough. I resolved to do a better job than the PO and make it shine. But when it came down to it, I sailed that boat as is for many years before I decided to tackle the teak. I just couldn't justify spending my valuable boat time doing cosmetic jobs rather than sailing. Same issue with the nav lights. Some of them worked, but most didn't. Turns out that I really never sailed at night anyway (still don't), so it was a non-issue. I eventually tackled the lights project more as a fun project than a necessity.

I'd be more concerned about the trailer. If he's telling you it needs that much work, it may very well need more.

And when you say the boat needs painting, what are you referring to? Is it the hull/deck itself (i.e., fading/failing gel coat or previously painted), or is it the teak or what?
By painting I mean pretty much everything.... the teak, which is a low concern, but moreso the hull is just faded and ugly and I'm sure the bottom hasn't been painted in years. The top is pretty good...but there are a couple spots with spiderweb cracking (the second pic shows one of a few similar spots on the seats). I know the keel will need blast cleaned and epoxied. When I asked him about condition he just said "I'm sure it's rusty as hell". I'd like to make the boat look prettier (if I buy it)... there's something to be said for pride of ownership... but my bigger hangup is the electric. We may not sail at night, but my son and I will spend the night on the boat if we have it.

I think my choice at this point is basically down to this '81 in need of a good bit of sprucing up for 2750, or to find a boat someone else has taken better care of for 4000-4500 or so. I like that Cat 22 as a boat, so I'll get this or something very similar... just a matter of which.



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139917
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
yep, any money you spend to upgrade the boat you can probably kiss goodbye when it comes time to sell it. You'll hear the phrase: the best boat upgrades are those done by the previous owner and from a monetary standpoint it's very true. The J22 is a very popular boat because you need one if you're going to enter one of the many racing regattas. But we're not talking about the America's Cup here. You could easily learn the basics of sailing on a boat like this but the larger boat you'll probably end up with (35' to 40') will be much more stable in ocean crossings - it'll also cost more to maintain, but hey, I doubt you'll get your wife doing any overnighters on a 22' boat. She's going to want a decent head and galley but this dream takes root. For now , lake sailing is kind of tricky in that the wind can be extremely variable (more learning experience) The upside is that fresh water is easier on the boat than salt water. Learn as much as you can on this puppy while spending the least amount possible and sell it when you're ready to upgrade. The big mistake is over investing in a boat you don't intend to keep.

Ps. As long as you keep it on the lake, you won't need any lights as it'll all be day sailing.
I think in general that makes a lot of sense. As stated above, I will need the lights regardless...but the rest of the point is probably right on.
 

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I went on my first sail today. It was awesome...truly enjoyed it. The boat was fairly rough, but for 2750 I somewhat expected that. It sailed well, the sails were old but in what appears to me to be good condition. It badly needs painted. The wood was dry and rough. the top had some light spiderweb cracking of the fiberglass. The owner has never tested any of the lights. I know the mast light won't work bc I could see the wire was disconnected at the bottom of the mast... the rest I have no clue. He's told me the trailer is rough and will need bearings, tires, possibly some welding of the front stopper block post (?), new electric.... sounds like its the basis of a trailer but needs much work. The Mariner 9.9 ran but was definitely rough.
Bottom line, I could sail it in the daytimes and probably sell it and get most of my money back in the spring. I'm attracted to the low price and dock slip it comes with. It would be something to practice in. But... I'm also hesitant to put myself in a position to do that much work or have to change boats so soon.
Imagine that evevrytime you wanted to go sailing, you had to rig a boat, stand in line at the launch ramp, launch, go park the truck, get everyone to the restrooms,and then you finally sail. If Mother Nature cooperates. Then at the end of a good day on the water, you get to do all that stuff in reverse. It's tedious even writing about it. That is the value of having a slip. If needs be, you could buy the status quo. And at some later point, sell the Catalina and get another boat. For me (old guy) , the slip is the most valuable part of this transaction!
 

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By painting I mean pretty much everything.... the teak, which is a low concern, but moreso the hull is just faded and ugly and I'm sure the bottom hasn't been painted in years. The top is pretty good...but there are a couple spots with spiderweb cracking (the second pic shows one of a few similar spots on the seats). I know the keel will need blast cleaned and epoxied. When I asked him about condition he just said "I'm sure it's rusty as hell". I'd like to make the boat look prettier (if I buy it)... there's something to be said for pride of ownership... but my bigger hangup is the electric. We may not sail at night, but my son and I will spend the night on the boat if we have it.

I think my choice at this point is basically down to this '81 in need of a good bit of sprucing up for 2750, or to find a boat someone else has taken better care of for 4000-4500 or so. I like that Cat 22 as a boat, so I'll get this or something very similar... just a matter of which.



View attachment 139916 View attachment 139917
Unless you have experience and the proper equipment, you aren't going to paint the deck or hull. It is a very labor intensive job, and in my humble and correct opinion, should be left to professionals. It will cost way more than the purchase price to have that boat painted. Most of the time, faded gel coat can be restored, at least to some degree. I've seen boats that look worse than that come out looking almost factory new. The equipment and material to do so is pretty inexpensive; the primary cost is time. A high quality, variable speed buffer, extremely fine sandpaper, a spray bottle (for wet sanding) some pads, compounding, polishing and waxing material, and Bob's your uncle. You can probably wet sand, compound, polish and wax a C22 with about 12 hours of solid work. You may not be able to lift your arms above your shoulders for about a week afterwards, but it can be done.

And spider cracks in gel coat are in and of themselves not a big deal. They are cosmetic. However, the reason for the spider cracks could be insidious; they could be an indication of a sharp blow or strain that has caused damage beneath the deck. Or, they could be the result of water intrusion into the core material of the deck; the saturated core then freezes during the winter, expanding and cracking the deck above.

As for painting the bottom: all boats need bottom paint. Unless the existing paint is in such bad shape it won't allow you to paint over it, you can just keep slathering on new coats of ablative over it. It may look bad; there may be large areas that aren't even close to fair. So long as you aren't racing, it won't make a difference to you. If you are only paying $2750 for the boat, you aren't going to pay someone to blast the bottom clean. And sanding off the existing paint yourself is a very messy, possibly dangerous job.

This is an inexpensive boat. If it has no deck leaks or big soft spots, the sails are serviceable and the engine works, and comes with a trailer, then $2750 sounds like a decent price, warts and all.
 

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Spot on. The OP will do a lot more sailing if the boats already in the water and ready to go. How much could a slip on a lake cost? Around here, people buy boats they don't even want just to get the slip. I think the OP will like the J22 once he gets it figured out. It'll be a bit twitchy at first but should be a hoot to sail even if he's not racing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Imagine that evevrytime you wanted to go sailing, you had to rig a boat, stand in line at the launch ramp, launch, go park the truck, get everyone to the restrooms,and then you finally sail. If Mother Nature cooperates. Then at the end of a good day on the water, you get to do all that stuff in reverse. It's tedious even writing about it. That is the value of having a slip. If needs be, you could buy the status quo. And at some later point, sell the Catalina and get another boat. For me (old guy) , the slip is the most valuable part of this transaction!
very good point...
 
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