[puddinlegs]

All the boats mentioned would be absolutely fine, and as others have said and said well, at 20-30 years old, maintenance by previous owners is the whole show. Pearson is easily on this list, and maybe a few C&C's and even J-boats should be as well.

 

[puddinlegs]

Always consider the boats that are still in production. There is a reason why Hunter and Catalina are still being built today while some of the others are not. Also, you will get better customer service from a manufacturer that is still around today versus one that went out 20 years ago.

The implication being that the best product survived while the inferior ones fell by the wayside? I hope that's not what you're saying. To digress, there were several manufactures now defunct that produced outstanding boats that are still considered superior to the boats you mention. I can think of a half dozen immediately off the top of my head. Customer service? Unless you're at the factory, manufacturers and brokers hire out local contractors to do their repair and commissioning. The same labor pool is available to anyone regardless of the age or manufacturer of their boat.

 

[puddinlegs]

I'm interested in the names of those half dozen. Would they include Pearson and Ericson? Cape Dory? (Yes, I know that is only 3 )

And this was what I was trying to get at in my OP about build quality. The reputation seems to be that some of the builders, even if no longer in business, produced a superior product to some of the current manufacturers. I'm still trying to grasp exactly what superior build quality refers to and perhaps I'll have to fall back to the car analogy that is sometimes used to rank boats...however incomplete that may be.

GRR

I'd say Pearson and Ericson make very nice boats that will suit your purposes well. Just find the right example and you should be fine. I've had friends cruise the Great Lakes on everything from a Catalina 27 to a C&C 61. Another friend was the first to windsurf across Lake Michigan in 1980!

Within the whole 'manufacture' discussion are outstanding individual designs. And of course budget not only to buy, but to maintain. Don't underestimate this. Costs rise exponentially roughly every 5 feet.

Of the Ericson boats that deserve special attention are those that were originally built by Olson ( Pacific Boat Works... outstanding glass work!) and the molds sold to Ericson after PBW went out of business: the Olson 34 and Olson 911. The Pacific Boat Works 911(s) is lighter and superior in build to the Ericson 911(se), but are great 30' boats from the board of the late Carl Schumaker. The Olson 34 is a great boat as well. Both the 911 and 34 are hard to come by as their owners are loath to part with them.

Others off the top of my head that haven't appeared in this thread:
Yankee 30, Olson 911, S2 9.1 or 10.3, J-34 or 35c (the nod goes to the 35c), Alsberg Bros Express 34. (Both the Express 34 and J35c where built in very limited numbers and both are very popular with their owners so hard to find.)
Then there are a number of C&C's (pre-Tartan and post Tartan ownership) that are popular, widely available, and have great user group info available. If you had the cash, an older S&S small Swan (36,37, or 38) would be nice, as might a Hinckley Pilot 35 ( a very different and older design than any of the aforementioned) CS made some very nice boats as well that are worth looking at. In the end, the right boat will not only be mechanically and structurally sound, but you'll just like looking at it in the slip! If you don't like the one you're dancing with, you'll always be looking for something else and focus is important. It's not just a boat, it's a life style!

You can find more basic info on the boats mentioned here:

http://sailboatdata.com/

 

[puddinlegs]

Shortlist for our boat over the past three years:

Re-powered.
Re-core deck around chainplates, bow pulpit, head mushroom vent, and port primary winch.
Backing plates for mast base turning blocks (6 total).
Replace cockpit multi-display (partial warrantee)
Replace mast head unit computer board.
New house and start battery
Replace GPS (this was a freebee... some things just work out. Clean living I guess!)
Rebuild head (mostly labor, a few small parts)
Replace forepeak hatch (bent frame)
Replace interior lighting (switch to LED)
Replace running light bulbs (again, LED)
New Life Sling (recalled and replaced by West Marine)
New dock lines
A couple of new fenders (ironically, we've had three wash up next to the boat over the past three years... put out an apb, but no takers)
replaced life jackets
new #3 kevlar tri-radial
replaced line clutches

replaced running rigging:
spinnaker sheets
jib sheets
jib halyard
main halyard
traveller line
topping lift
pole downhaul
pole mast control line
vang fine tune line
jib car adjustment lines
reef line(s)

re-cut old dacron delivery/cruising main
installed smart plug
replaced interior handrail
re-varnished our very small amount of brightwork
touch up paint to scratches on mast
disassembled, inspected spreader assemblies.
disassemble, lube and service winches (6.. twice a year)
Annual haulout, inspection, bottom paint, buff + wax hull.
The usual engine maintenance/oil changes.

To do's:
sort out the NMEA wiring between GPS,VHF, and the auto tiller.
replace headstay foil
re-rig spinnaker poles
buff + wax doghouse, cockpit (no, not the floor!)
Probably not this year, but we'd like a new #2.
Finish new lee cloths
Re-bed deck hardware aft of the doghouse
re-sew mainsail cover

Pretty typical list I'd guess. The boat has great bones and is well worth the effort. Not as long a list as Marty's though! ... fortunately the boat came with a great sail inventory! And yes, we do sail a good bit so it doesn't really feel like a constant project.

 

[puddinlegs]

Another boat to add, Islander, maybe Ranger too.

marty

Ranger 33, Islander 36... Good thoughts Marty! There's an absolutely stunning old Ranger 37 One tonner around here. Probably looks better than new.

 

[puddinlegs]

Hope our list didn't scare you away! Honestly, many of the jobs just aren't that big a deal, especially if you like boat work. The biggies, re-powering and re-coring, where from the results of the pre purchase survey. We made our initial offer, did the survey, found some issues, got estimates, subtracted those costs from the original offer, adjusted the offer, accepted, got the boat, and fixed the problems. It took about 2, 2 1/2 weeks of work for the deck. The engine was about 3 days. Both the engine and deck where professionally done. The rest is just my own sweat equity which saves a ton of money. Lots of stuff is just changing things out. Splicing new lines is kind of a zen exercise. It's actually relaxing. Yeah, our list was a little surprising to me as well. It just doesn't feel like it's been all that much work. Even with the money spent, we're still miles below what a new 34' boat would cost, and with arguably, a much better design and build quality than 95% of what's currently available new.

 

[puddinlegs]

GRR,

I would add to this list the S2 11 meter, another well-built boat from the '80s (there were few 10.3s built and they are hard to find on the used market)

--Karl

Ah! That's what I meant... the 11, not the 10.3. A friend has one and loves it. He and his wife have been chipping away at upgrades, replacements, repairs, etc... it has to be one of the nicest S2 11's around!

 

[puddinlegs]

So I've located a Pearson 34 that I'm considering going to see. This is a model that has been on my short-list. It is relatively close to where I live compared to the other examples on the market (in fact, if I ended up with this boat I could possibly sail it home rather than having it trucked) and has always been a freshwater boat save for 1 trip to the Bahamas. So that is the upside.

But there are some potential downsides:

1) The broker tells me that the boat was "side-swiped" about twenty years ago. He did not know a lot of detail, other than that he thinks the boat was able to be motored to a boatyard that had an excellent reputation for its work. He said some fiberglass work was done and then the hull was painted. He said you cannot tell by looking at the boat where the collision occurred, so apparently it is at least cosmetically okay. There is no paperwork for this repair. It is a two owner boat and the second owner reportedly knew the first owner well enough that he was not concerned about the integrity of the repair (and apparently the first owner) when he purchased the boat. The second owner apparently felt confident enough in the integrity of the hull to take the boat to the Bahamas.

That's the beauty of fiberglass. It's relatively easy to repair. So long as the repairs are good, I don't know that I'd be concerned enough NOT to go have a look a the boat.

2) This boat has the original Universal 5416 engine which rates at 16hp. It was pulled 3-4 years ago and completely rebuilt to the tune of about 3k. So, how long could I expect a rebuilt engine to last (ballpark)? I know the issue of underpowering has been debated elsewhere about the 16hp in a Pearson
34, with some folks saying you should always go with the 2hp/1,000lbs rule while others said that 16hp was good enough for Bill Shaw. I'm concerned about difficulty motoring in current/swells, although reportedly the current owner has never had difficulty motoring anywhere and felt confident enough to take it to the Bahamas and back.

Hard to say. Ask who did the work. If you make an offer, have the engine surveyed.

3) All the electronics work, but are old so would need replaced in the coming years. Also, the main and genoa would likely need replaced in the next few years, but not immediately.

The boat is priced 7-10k below other examples that have bigger engines and more upgrades, but in the same ball park as some other examples with similar engines.

A new main and genoa will cost you nearly the 7k difference in price. Add some electronics upgrades, and you're well into the pricing for boats with better electronics and sails. It's up to you. Remember, there's the asking price, and there's what you offer. If you like the boat but the sails are in poor condition, then subtract that cost from your offer. The worse the current owner will say is "no". They might also make a reasonable counter offer as well.

Worth a look or keep movin' on?

Again, why not go have a look? It's not a bad way to spend part of a day. You might see some other boats at the dock that look interesting. Buying a boat is a process. So long as you're not in a rush, you'll find something that suits both you and your budget.

 

[puddinlegs]

Just to add to the list of cost associated with sailing... I bought a fairly clean boat to start with, but the itch for new toys and upgrades have been severe.

I bought the boat for $55250 and have spent over $25,000 in the past year and a half. Very little, maybe $2000, has been repairing anything... the rest has all been upgrades. Really, I cannot believe I have spent even half of that. I just adds up way too fast!

Here is a link to cost up to may of this year:

Matt & Jessica's Sailing Page » COST

Amazing. You can do your bottom with only 2 quarts of VC17m?