[bljones]

GRR, why shop in Annapolis?

A well-maintained, Great Lakes sailed, Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau, or Ericson or Sabre would be better value than an East Coast saltwater-sailed Sabre. The boats may the same age, but the lake boat will have half as much usage, no hurricane exposure, annual haul-outs, less UV damage, no saltwater exposure, and will be about the same price, or less.

 

[mgraham49]

Pearson 10m

Someone should speak up for the
Pearsons. I have owned the same Pearson 10m (10 meter, 32.8 feet I think) since 1975. Hard to believe I bought it when I was 25, and was working on it this morning at age 61.

We have raced, cruised, raised children and grandchildren on it. It has been sturdy and virtually indestructible.

It has been a great sailing boat, still outpointing and quicker than many newer boats. It is moderate displacement at 12,000 pounds, fin keel, skeg hung rudder.

The early 10m (serial number less than 100) had a chainplate issue which was resolved in the post #100 boats, AMD could be fixed in the earlier boats.

I mention all of this because the late 70s and early 80s pearsons were built more heavily than the ericsons. I love the lines of the ericsons, and their trademark black mast, but I would rather be on my Pearson in an
Open Ocean blow.

Prices are way down on the 10m. I have a theory that any boat that cannot be immediately identified by the name as to size doesn't have as good a resale. Tartan 10s are an example, but a very different boat.

Hope this helps.

Mike

 

[T37Chef]

I dont think anyone said Pearson are not great boats?

 

[Grand River Raider]

GRR, why shop in Annapolis?

A well-maintained, Great Lakes sailed, Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau, or Ericson or Sabre would be better value than an East Coast saltwater-sailed Sabre. The boats may the same age, but the lake boat will have half as much usage, no hurricane exposure, annual haul-outs, less UV damage, no saltwater exposure, and will be about the same price, or less.

bljones,

Initially, I was looking primarily at Tartan 34-2 and 33 and there were few of them in my price range for sale here in the Great Lakes believe it or not. More of the Tartan 34C, which has beautiful exterior lines, but a rather spartan interior. And I was not really considering those other builders at first, but after I got on board a 1985 Pearson 34 that I really liked (save for the deep draft), I started looking more broadly at other builders. Those concerns that you mentioned are very real and certainly it would be easier to get a boat closer to home. If I can find "the one" (if such a boat exists) in the Great Lakes, I'll be thrilled.

GRR

 

[Grand River Raider]

J's might very well fit your need. IIRC the 35 or 35c would make good cruisers. Even the 37/37c. The c at the end just means IIRC that they have a bit nicer interior. along with it is easier to find a shoal draft version. The C versions will be a bit more money. Good old boat about a year or so ago did an article on a 32 ie July/August 2010. I could probably scan that review. The other boat is a Jeanneau Arcadia. an attalia is simalar, but about 2' longer, and a different designer. Then a sunshine 36/38 is a longer version, same designer as teh Arcadia. Sailing mag also has many reviews of some older boats too.

CS from that era also have a nice boat too. A dock/yc mate bought a 36 merlin last summer. Nice boat, look up Dejonda on here, along with mitempo? sp? has a CS 30, also Castro designs like the Arcadia, and sunshine boats.

Marty

My horizons are expanding even further. You have given me a number of new boats to consider. I'll have to do some more research. Thanks Marty.

 

[blt2ski]

HERE is the Arcadia review. There are only about 20 in the states. The attalia which is considered a 32' boat is very similar as mentioned, but much more findable, as is the Sunshine. ALL three models have fin and CB versions. Sundream, Sun light are some newer versions of these. Older jeanneau's are worth taking a peak at.

For me if you look at a Beneteau, look at some of the first series versions. These are nice interior wise, but have some speed and are ment to be raced then cruised, or cruised very fast. Most unfortunately for you, will be deeper keels. I have not heard that shoal keels are needed as much on the GL's as they are on the east coast in salt water. I would not personally rule one out if you can. If frieghters are moving about on the lakes with 15-20' drafts, a 5-7' draft sailboat should not have issues! or to me, at least no more than a 3-5' draft one! But that is coming from someone that sails in 300-600+ feet of water here in Puget Sound, shoal draft boats are a liability to sell vs deep draft boats!

As mentioned by the fellow with the Pearson, they are good boats. I know another fellow that has had one for many years, and know who sold it to him. 20 yrs tween them and it is still moving. BUT< the recent owner mentioned yesterday he has an offer or is close to do so on a C310! I think that one will be a bit nicer for him and spouse since they are close to retiring!

I would also suggest a boat if possible with in your budget newer than about 82, you will not have the pinched transoms from the late 70's IOR heyday. WHile upwind great boats, down wind, they can get tricky. That is a me personal opinion...not that it is worth much.

Marty

 

[mgraham49]

When did blistering stop being an issue? I know that it had something to do with the resins and glass, and have the sense that it isn't much of an issue on newer boats, but to what extent is blistering an issue in 80s boats?

 

[Grand River Raider]

HERE is the Arcadia review. There are only about 20 in the states. The attalia which is considered a 32' boat is very similar as mentioned, but much more findable, as is the Sunshine. ALL three models have fin and CB versions. Sundream, Sun light are some newer versions of these. Older jeanneau's are worth taking a peak at.

Thanks for scanning this review. I did a quick scan of yachtworld and could not find any in my range. I did find some J-boats and CS. I think I like a more traditional looking boat rather than the sleek, more contemporary look of these boats.

For me if you look at a Beneteau, look at some of the first series versions. These are nice interior wise, but have some speed and are ment to be raced then cruised, or cruised very fast. Most unfortunately for you, will be deeper keels. I have not heard that shoal keels are needed as much on the GL's as they are on the east coast in salt water. I would not personally rule one out if you can. If frieghters are moving about on the lakes with 15-20' drafts, a 5-7' draft sailboat should not have issues! or to me, at least no more than a 3-5' draft one! But that is coming from someone that sails in 300-600+ feet of water here in Puget Sound, shoal draft boats are a liability to sell vs deep draft boats!

Yes, I have been considering how much the draft matters for where I will sail. Most of the time the shallow draft won't matter as I will be day sailing and weekending on Lake Erie, but I would like the versatility to take a longer cruise up to Georgian Bay/North Channel. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing a shallow draft would be needed in this case. If not, the shallow draft is not that important.

As mentioned by the fellow with the Pearson, they are good boats. I know another fellow that has had one for many years, and know who sold it to him. 20 yrs tween them and it is still moving. BUT< the recent owner mentioned yesterday he has an offer or is close to do so on a C310! I think that one will be a bit nicer for him and spouse since they are close to retiring!

Yes, I'm liking the Pearsons a good deal.

I would also suggest a boat if possible with in your budget newer than about 82, you will not have the pinched transoms from the late 70's IOR heyday. WHile upwind great boats, down wind, they can get tricky. That is a me personal opinion...not that it is worth much.

Marty

Help me out Marty..."a pinched transom?"

 

[Grand River Raider]

Marty,

Well, I have managed to put my response into the quote of your last post. I'm still getting the hang of this site. I suppose I needed to hit the multi-quote button at the bottom to respond to different segments of your post individually?

GRR

 

[Grand River Raider]

It has been a great sailing boat, still outpointing and quicker than many newer boats. It is moderate displacement at 12,000 pounds, fin keel, skeg hung rudder.

I mention all of this because the late 70s and early 80s pearsons were built more heavily than the ericsons. I love the lines of the ericsons, and their trademark black mast, but I would rather be on my Pearson in an
Open Ocean blow.

Mike

Mike,

It sounds like you have had a great experience with your Pearson to say the least. Wonderful that your boat has been so durable.

I'm wondering what you think about the 1970's and early 80's Pearsons versus that Pearsons made closer to the time the company closed. I've considered looking at some of the late 1980's and early 1990's Pearson 31-2.

Thanks,

GRR

 

[Grand River Raider]

Not sure about the shallow draft

Marty,

In case this point got lost as I managed to embed it in your quote from a previous post, I've been debating how important a shallow draft is for me. Most days it probably won't be important as I will daysail and weekend on Lake Erie. There are some islands near by for weekending, so it could be an issue there. I also want to have the versatility to take a longer cruise up to the Georgian Bay/North Channel and I'm thinking a shallow draft would likey be needed there.

GRR

 

[manhattan08]

Always consider the boats that are still in production. There is a reason why Hunter and Catalina are still being built today while some of the others are not. Also, you will get better customer service from a manufacturer that is still around today versus one that went out 20 years ago.

 

[blt2ski]

Something to think about, While Pearson 'quit" selling there own brands, they STILL MAKE boats per say. IE J-boats, Aleron Express to name a couple of brands they subcontract too.

Pinched stern.....need to find some pics. but the Ericson depending upon the year may very well have on. If you can find a pic of a San Juan 24, this is the hull form in which I speak of. Others have it. If you can get on a bit less pinched, ie like the Jeanneau in the review above. Most J's do not have the pinched stern. A friends P29 or 30 has a bit of one........

Major blistering was late 70's to early 80's IIRC, more from N American built boats vs European. This was as much to do with the fuel crises at the time.

ALso, the ones that went BK in the 80's, frankly not that I should get political, BUT at least in the US, the feds put a rather large tax on boats of X size or larger or maybe it was price, pretty much killled, and many stayed killed the ability of boat manufactures here in the states. It was not due to bad running of the manufactures. Altho some, ie the ones Bangar Punta bought, this may be the running body screwing them up, ie Ranger, Oday, cal, to name three in NA< and they owned Jeanneau too, but the French government found a local to buy the assets, keep it running, 10 yrs later Group beneteau bought the company..... Even thos Jeanneau still exists, they have gone thru SOO many variations of different sizes, that finding parts for my boat in the review is pretty much a "i'm on my own" I would suspect that of even some other still currently manufactures boats frankly! Then again, there are very few items I need direct from Jeanneau, so I do not worry personally about factory assistance.

Marty

 

[Sabreman]

GRR,
I think that you're beginning to experience what I was when we were looking for our latest boat. Even though we'd owned a Sabre 28 for 15 years, I was scanning the entire market and started thrashing. When there are too many choices, it's easy to become paralyzed with all the variations available. Finally, my wife (bless her) suggested that we stay with Sabre because we'd had so much luck with them (3 years on a Sabre 34 as crew racing, then the Sabre 28). After she said that, within a week I'd narrowed the search to 3 Sabres (2 34s and a 38). We looked at all three in a day and bought the 38.

The point is that all the boats that you mention are great. I'd recommend narrowing the search to the one that is most affordable and which strikes your eye, and then buy it. When you do, don't look back at any other boat, especially to compare prices. Sail the thing!

Good Luck,
Mark

PS. My wife's advice was so good that I put her name on the boat.

 

[tempest]

Sabre is still in business ( 41 years) and providing excellent service to their customers past and present..... Just saying.

I don't know what business decision went into their discontinuing the 34 or 362..
I've sailed quite a bit on the 386 and it's a sweet ride...

I talked to the owner and went aboard an '87 34 MK11 that came into my yard to haul out on Saturday..it looked like a brand new boat... which is really what you want to see when you buy a 25 year old boat...How much did the PO love her...regardless of what model or manufacturer you choose....and then does it call to you..

 

[PalmettoSailor]

But race them well?? I'm working on that.

True. I've owned 2 Sabres and worked for two Catalina dealers so I know the brands well. The reality is that the boats listed have sold thousands and are perfectly fine for the 99.99% of conditions that we experience. The crew tends to give up far sooner than the boat. Two weeks ago, we sailed Gov Cup upwind in 22 kts (sustained) and 2' seas for 20 hours. Palmetto Moon (C36) endured the same conditions and arrived just as safely as us, but later

Find the boat that suits your pocketbook and tickles your fancy, then buy it. They're all good. BTW, Sabre 38's of mid 80's vintage in good conditions are about $40k higher than the budget listed. Not sure what a 34 would go for.

Not that much later, but the Sabre 38 that was in my fleet kicked our butt in convincing fashon. ;-) Partly the boat, but mainly a much better skipper. (ie 30+ years of racing experience and the event chair).

My advice is to not let your wife or SO see a newer Catalina or Hunter if what you want is an older Sabre/Tartan/Ericson. My C36 has quite a bit more room than below deck than a 36' Sabre and probably more than the 38.

When I began my search for our current boat, I wanted a Saber 36 or 38, a Tartan 37 or an Ericson 38. I also looked at a couple of CS36's a traditional and a Merlin. Of these boats, the only one in our price range that was equipped with the things we knew we wanted was a really nice Ericson 38, but even it needed some significant work and we couldn't agree on price. All the other boats had both maintenance issues and lacked one or more of the things on our "Must have" list. As others have pointed out if you find a boat that's had above average maintenence that fills 90% of your desires its the boat to buy. Condition pretty much trumps builder when it come to older production boats. Thats what happened with our C36. It was in the best condition of any boat I found during my search, had all of the items on our "must have list" and since it was the Admiral's favorite its what we bought despite my desire for a boat with a better PHRF rating.

I've now got a case of twofootitis and would like a boat around 40-42 feet that rates under 100, with nice crusing accomodations, AC and a separate shower in the head for under $100k. In otherwords my perfect boat doesn't exist.

Oh yeah, about that Gov Cup, Did you guys have Lasanga and hot garlic bread for dinner? ;-)

 

[Sabreman]

Did you guys have Lasanga and hot garlic bread for dinner?

No. To heavy. We opted for fresh lobster, roasted potatoes, local greens with a choice of flan or hot apple pie for desert. Decanted the wine at 1800 and served with our best crystal.... all at a 30 degree heel and 22 kts up my nose. Wet night.......

I don't know what business decision went into their discontinuing the 34 or 362

The answer is economics. Sabre has progressively priced themselves out of the market for "smaller" boats. They've dropped the classic 28, then 30 on up.

 

[Grand River Raider]

Buying from current versus past manufacturer.

Always consider the boats that are still in production. There is a reason why Hunter and Catalina are still being built today while some of the others are not. Also, you will get better customer service from a manufacturer that is still around today versus one that went out 20 years ago.

This is an interesting consideration and I've heard opinions on both sides. Marty makes the point that rarely does he need a part directly from Jenneau. And I wondered the same thing, how often would you need something directly from the builder. To my novice eye, it seems that the most important thing about the builder is that they develop a structurally sound boat (i.e., hull/deck/keel). Beyond this, much of the boat is not unique to the builder (i.e., engine).

 

[Grand River Raider]

Sailboat Mania

GRR,
I think that you're beginning to experience what I was when we were looking for our latest boat. Even though we'd owned a Sabre 28 for 15 years, I was scanning the entire market and started thrashing. When there are too many choices, it's easy to become paralyzed with all the variations available. Finally, my wife (bless her) suggested that we stay with Sabre because we'd had so much luck with them (3 years on a Sabre 34 as crew racing, then the Sabre 28). After she said that, within a week I'd narrowed the search to 3 Sabres (2 34s and a 38). We looked at all three in a day and bought the 38.

The point is that all the boats that you mention are great. I'd recommend narrowing the search to the one that is most affordable and which strikes your eye, and then buy it. When you do, don't look back at any other boat, especially to compare prices. Sail the thing!

Good Luck,
Mark

PS. My wife's advice was so good that I put her name on the boat.

Mark,

This has been very true lately. Initially, the Tartans caught my eye and being from the Cleveland area the influence was there. I was interested almost exclusively in the Tartans. But then I got on board a few (34-2, 33) and I was not sure about the interior and it appeared difficult to find one in the condition I wanted that was in my price range. Granted, the interior is not the most important part of a sailboat, but it does matter for my purposes. Then I got on a mid 1980's Pearson 34 and liked the interior better. It felt more open so I decided to expand my search to other builders and this is how I arrived here. So yes I am thrashing around a bit (not only about builders, but length of boat, shallow versus deep draft, and on and on), but I must admit it has been an adventure so far and I'm enjoying it. And I appreciate hearing the opinions of sailors from around the country.

Thanks for your advice.

GRR

 

[Grand River Raider]

My advice is to not let your wife or SO see a newer Catalina or Hunter if what you want is an older Sabre/Tartan/Ericson. My C36 has quite a bit more room than below deck than a 36' Sabre and probably more than the 38.

When I began my search for our current boat, I wanted a Saber 36 or 38, a Tartan 37 or an Ericson 38. I also looked at a couple of CS36's a traditional and a Merlin. Of these boats, the only one in our price range that was equipped with the things we knew we wanted was a really nice Ericson 38, but even it needed some significant work and we couldn't agree on price. All the other boats had both maintenance issues and lacked one or more of the things on our "Must have" list. As others have pointed out if you find a boat that's had above average maintenence that fills 90% of your desires its the boat to buy. Condition pretty much trumps builder when it come to older production boats. Thats what happened with our C36. It was in the best condition of any boat I found during my search, had all of the items on our "must have list" and since it was the Admiral's favorite its what we bought despite my desire for a boat with a better PHRF rating.

I've now got a case of twofootitis and would like a boat around 40-42 feet that rates under 100, with nice crusing accomodations, AC and a separate shower in the head for under $100k. In otherwords my perfect boat doesn't exist.
QUOTE]

Midlifesailor,

My girlfriend is absolutely no help in settling this matter. We were looking around on the internet today and saw a very nice mid 1980's Ericson 35-3 and she said "that's it, that the one, call off the search". Mind you, two minutes earlier she was singing the praises of a Pearson 34 I would like to go see. You get the idea..."the seas" are very choppy here and I'm being tossed all over the place.

The consensus is forming that maintenance history trumps builder with regard to the 1980's production boats and I'm good with this approach. Fortunately, I really like the looks of the Tartans, Sabres, Pearsons and Ericsons for the most part so if I can just find one that gets pulled out of the water looking brand new as someone mentioned, then I'll be in luck. I've even taken a gander at some Catalinas recently and may decide to go look at a few (No offense intended, I was just not drawn to them initially). Thanks for your input.

GRR