[joebeach]

Trying to get a sense of what's involved in finishing and fitting out a clean(ish) project boat.

The particulars: there is an ad for an Allegra 24 hull on Craigslist in Cape Coral, FL for $3K asking - there are 3 photos. The interior photo show a "new" forward bulkhead with compression post, sole, and nothing else but the bare fiberglass hull. The second photo shows one of seven (uninstalled) bronze portlights. The last photo shows what appears to be an intact hull on jacks (possibly on a trailer) with a sloppy looking paint job and an unstepped mast beside it. A Yanmar 1 cyl is available "separately" (I'd upsize to a 2 cyl). Presumably there is nothing else - no rigging, sails, rudder/tiller, internal structure of any kind, etc.

The Allegra 24 is a rare bluewater pocket cruiser, reportedly a stretched and improved reworking of the Flicka, (being bigger, faster, and less prone to stern squatting). It was mostly sold as a kit boat, I believe in the '80s and '90s. The most comparable boat to it is probably a Dana 24, which has a PHRF of 228 (not bad for a small heavy cruiser), and sells used for $40-50K.

So - this is an opportunity to take the hull of a solid, proven bluewater pocket cruiser that is also (reputedly) a decent light air sailor, and finish it out as you would like it - it's a blank, high-quality sailing canvas.

And I am a dinghy sailor with no boat-building, mechanical, electrical, or construction skills, whatsoever.

My (crazy) questions are:

1 - what would it cost, roughly, to complete the interior of this boat to a comfortable, clean, rugged standard for cruising - meaning joinery, glasswork if any, plumbing and through-hulls, electrical (not including gizmos), 2 cyl diesel w drivetrain, etc. - IF one didn't have the skills or time to do it himself, and wanted to hire a competent yard or builder or series of workmen to do it for you?

2 - where can one get plans for #1 above? Is it necessary to hire a naval architect, or can one buy available plans for a comparable boat for a few hundred dollars and count on competent workmen to adapt them as necessary?

3- what would it cost, roughly, to complete the exterior of this boat to a comfortable, clean, rugged standard for cruising - meaning sails, rigging, lifelines rudder/tiller, prop, portlight installation, bottom paint, non-skid, windex, etc. - IF one didn't have the skills or time to do it himself, and wanted to hire a competent yard or builder or workmen to do it for you?

4 - Is there anyone you would recommend or consider for the work at ##1-3 above, particularly if in the Tampa Bay area?

5 - Assuming reasonably full-time work by experienced people, what is the approximate time from acquisition to splash-in, e.g., is 6 months reasonable?

Yes, I realize that this project is probably way too expensive to farm out, and a better project for someone with the skills, or the time and inclination to develop those skills, to take on. But the Allegra 24 is a boat I've been interested in for a while, and I'd like a least to get some thoughts (from more experienced sailors and project-finishers) on what it might take.

And if this thread alerts someone on SN better suited to the project about this boat, I'm OK with that. Thanks in advance.

 

[svHyLyte]

You might want to look at Ben Zartman's site concerning his construction of (click on) Ganymede

 

[Westsailforever]

Depends on how bad you want it Joe . There are lots of books to read on the subject . I would say when your done you will have more into it than if you found one ready to go, I think . You talk about the Dana 24 for 40-50 , check this web site (boats for sale) Westsail 28 . You have me thinking though you want a cruiser but you are talking about PHRF ratings. Any boat can be sailed badly(slow) and then given a unfair reputation . Check out the SHTP race going on right now a Westsail 32 sailed by Gary Burton, he is first in his division and fourth over all . Just click on the owners association . Good luck let us know how it turns out . WESTSAIL - WORLD CRUISER YACHT CO.

 

[deniseO30]

gad, I know how to do it all, make it happen (with help) and I would not even consider such an undertaking. If you want to sail, find a boat that meets most of your needs and go sailing!

 

[Ferretchaser]

I started out with a 36 foot hull. No deck. no cabin , not even stringers or bulkheads. Just a flimsy tub..... took me two years to splash and then another 6 month to make it livable. Don't want to think about the costs. But I did everything myself other then the sail. Jeckels made them.

Good luck

Michael

 

[Alex W]

1 - what would it cost, roughly, to complete the interior of this boat to a comfortable, clean, rugged standard for cruising - meaning joinery, glasswork if any, plumbing and through-hulls, electrical (not including gizmos), 2 cyl diesel w drivetrain, etc. - IF one didn't have the skills or time to do it himself, and wanted to hire a competent yard or builder or series of workmen to do it for you?

Far more than a used Dana 24, and probably more than a new one. It's the same work as building a new Dana 24, and without the yard having the advantages of molds and fixtures and knowing exactly how a Dana 24 goes together.

 

[deniseO30]

omg

offer em $500

 

[christian.hess]

yeah thats not worth 3k...no way even for me who loves these project...its just a hull...

there is no rigging and a motor separately(btw the yanmar 1 cylinder is fine for that size no need to go bigger)

look at other boats in this size range and you can get them in the water in ready to sail shape for even cheaper...

might not be a flicka(dana) but damn decent.

 

[miatapaul]

offer em $500

And make them include the motor. If they don't take it you can offer it to them again in two years. Look into an Albin Vega well under 10,000 for a ready to go proven offshore blue water boat. And will have more room than this and be more comfortable.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk

 

[christian.hess]

or a folkboat, contessa 26, triton, etc...jejeje

 

[deltaten]

A generalized estimate, going by what folks have reported latelythat. yards charge to fit out and install.

15k engine +, 15k rig and sails, 7-10k interior, 6-8k exterior, with incidentals; call it nearer $50K. !!!

Mostly DI?, prolly half that if ya wait to find bargains and used equipment.AND if ya wanna take 4-6 yrs to do the job.Average the two, come up with 35K and there's plenny of boats like the one your'e looking at for under that figure if your willing to clean it up some

Go small,go cheap,go NOW

 

[joebeach]

Thanks to all for your responses. Clearly this project is uneconomical, unsuitable, untimely, etc., etc. - or at least it is for me.

Once again the bracing feedback of the SN crew has slapped the temporary insanity out of a dream-walking noob. Thanks again.

 

[hellosailor]

Joe, as soon as you mention hiring someone to do the work, there goes the budget. I think you can guarantee that hiring someone to do custom work, as opposed to buying a factory-built boat in any condition that is usable "as is", will cost you at least DOUBLE what the complete boat would have cost.

Now, if you want a ten thousand dollar education in boat building, but the three thousand dollar boat and you'll learn a lot while you're at it. Just remember, find out what you can buy a ready boat for, and cut off your spending before you reach that point.

On the engine, a one-lunger would be fine for a light 24' boat. At that point you're still pretty much in outboard territory, so even a hamster cage with good bearings (and steroids for the hamster) will do. Twice as many cylinders, and the boat is no longer a light-air boat, it is overweight and out of balance.

Personally? I'd say RUN AWAY. Don't get into a project boat until you've got the skills, unless you want to make the project into a long skill-building affair.

 

[deniseO30]

Thanks to all for your responses. Clearly this project is uneconomical, unsuitable, untimely, etc., etc. - or at least it is for me.

Once again the bracing feedback of the SN crew has slapped the temporary insanity out of a dream-walking noob. Thanks again.

Joe, that boat was a kit boat that most likely was never finished by the owner. The Allegra 24 Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org

 

[Shinook]

I evaluated that boat too.

I like the Allegra 24 and the boat you listed definitely caught my eye, but it's not a boat for someone that wants to sail it right away or can't do the work themselves. If we had the space, I'd have bought it (the boat is worth more than $500) and worked on it, but not without having another boat or knowing that it could be 2 years before she sees the water.

There is no way I'd pay a yard to do the work, the cost and likelihood of incompetence isn't worth it. If you did most of the work yourself, the cost could be less than a Dana 24, but paying a yard you'd end up over the $70k+ that a Dana runs. If you did the work yourself, you could probably finish in under $35k, not including the cost of your time.

OTOH, the beauty of a boat that size is that it is only 24ft and everything is a lot simpler and cheaper. You can also build it to your liking.

If you like that style, you might take a look at the Flicka. There are a few on the market right now for less than $15k.

 

[BeejDeC]

OMG - run away. 3k for the boat, a year to three renting space at a boat yard, weekends lost scouring the internet for hard to find parts, easily a grand spent on tools (just for you), inevitable fights and differences of opinions with contractors.. firing contractor, hiring contractor...

Sailing is supposed to be fun. Mine's old too and I know I don't have many/most of the skills needed to bring her back to ship-shape, but i can sail her all season and either learn the requisite skills each winter or learn to grab my ankles, but I'll still be sailing.

 

[Stumble]

A project like this is good for one thing only. Learning the skills necessary to build a bigger one. Like any good education it will cost you money and time. So unless you really want to spend a lot of cash to learn to build a boat there is no point in it.

I have seen way to many people get into these projects thinking they can save a boat load by doing the work themselves, and wind up sinking more money into them that they will ever be worth. Typically projects like this go thru multiple buyers before ever hitting the water, and only the last buyer has a prayer of coming out of it ok.

Just an example, I know of a 54' boat that at the time was selling in the $300,000 range. A guy bought it for $2,000. Thinking he would fix it up and save a huge amount of money. Two years and $250,000 later he sold it for $50,000. That owner dropped another $150,000 and sold it for $100,000. The third owner spent an additional three years and $200,000 to get it back in the water. But she is now in amazing shape. Not a single buyer thought they were going to loose money, but only the last buyer stands to make a dollar on this project.

 

[dabnis]

I helped my Dad build both boats & houses, really not much fun, for me, anyway.

I enjoyed sailing more than building. If you want to learn "skills" there are lots of ways to do that besides building a boat.

To each his own.

Paul T

 

[christian.hess]

Ill play

DIY to finish the interior you need at least 5k in materials, wood, glass etc, tanks. That will get you an interior,

then move onto the rest.

true amateur builder or restorer could get this boat up and running in a year or so, and spend anywhere from 5k to 15k depending on what is wanted.

market value for said boat would be around 7.5k on a good day.

no matter how you slice it this boat wont make money to the new owner or succesive owner after him.

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWEVER if its a project of love and dedication and you use it and love her, ane keep her a while

thats PRICELESS

so who cares...

 

[CharlzO]

Joe, as soon as you mention hiring someone to do the work, there goes the budget.

My thoughts exactly. If you aren't able to do the work, you just sunk the project, pun partially intended. The labor alone to cover anyone else doing the work is going to skyrocket your costs beyond feasible.

It would have to be a truly one-of-a-kind vessel to even consider hiring someone else, and would be a definite labor of love. If you are able to do the work, even then it's barely a wash half the time I bet. I know I've put more into mine than it's worth, and that was barely anything. But for me, I did the work myself and it's my learning experience, so it makes it worth it TO ME. No one else afterwards is going to care what I put into it, they will only value it at market.

All that said though... and I would love to start with a bare hull and create something of my own doing. To me, it sounds like quite the adventure, which I'm sure in a bunch of years I will do. But to hire someone to do it... either a very special boat, or very deep pockets with no regard to resale market value.