[chall03]

It looks like every armchair sailor's favourite cruising family are now selling the boat and have bought an RV.

They have been the subject of more than one thread here and elsewhere, but I personally have really enjoyed their blog, following their adventures and respect what they have achieved.

I wish them well in their future adventures.

Full post here.

Bumfuzzle » Roll On

 

[PCP]

It looks like every armchair sailor's favourite cruising family are now selling the boat and have bought an RV.

They have been the subject of more than one thread here and elsewhere, but I personally have really enjoyed their blog, following their adventures and respect what they have achieved.

I wish them well in their future adventures.

Full post here.

Bumfuzzle » Roll On

I always said that there are two types of cruisers:

1 - The ones that use the boat as a vehicle for cruising and are indifferent about sailing (if they had the money they would do it probably in a motorboat).

2 - And the ones that are not only cruising but enjoying sailing in at least equal parts or even like more sailing than cruising.

Its easy to tell the two types apart: The first ones when they find a nice place they stay several days. The others after a day or two in each place while their wives want to stay all they want is go out sailing again.

The first type frequently leaves the boat in the marina and rent a car for several days to explore the inland. They have an easy to sail sailboat and a inexpensive one. The others try to have a boat as fast and fun to sail as they can and that means many times a more modern and expensive boat (or a very spartan old racing boat), expensive sails. That means also to change boat from time to time for a better and more rewarding faster one.

you can look at the Bumfuzzles boat and that will give you some clews about to what group they belong:

<p><a href="http://vimeo.com/79676408">Sailing San Carlos to Mazatlan, Mexico</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/bumfuzzle">Bumfuzzle.com</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

and regarding that if you listen what they say all the doubts will vanish :

"That trip is for people that enjoy sailing...

For quite a while we lingered on that idea of sailing to Panama for a season, spending the summer months in a rented condo in the Casco Viejo neighborhood with the locals. That would be fun. Then go through the canal and spend a year in Cartagena, Colombia, renting a condo in the old city there during the worst of the summer heat.

Eventually we came to the conclusion that these were ridiculous plans. Why sail all of these hard-fought miles to leave the boat (paying hundreds of dollars a month for it to languish in a marina) and live ashore? .....

“With boats. I think I’m done. This just isn’t the way I want to spend my time. Our time.” ...

We talked about how our cruising plans were actually pretty stupid. Cruising to places in order to get off the boat. That’s stupid....

So we’re headed off to live the life of motorhome gypsies. Or Overlanders. Or Boondockers. Or whatever it is these people are called. Old fogies? Geriatrics? Bus bums?"


In fact they are going to continue to cruise but now on a bus instead of a boat. I do that to, out of season, but on a sports car. I also like as much to drive as to cruise in a car.

Most of the times the two types have an hard time to understand each other. The first type says about the 2nd type:

Why they spend a fortune in a new boat that is just 1K faster than my old shoe? They can buy an used old boat, slower but much more comfortable at sea and spend all that extra money cruising

The other type think about the first one: what in hell is the pleasure those guys take out of sailing (while cruising) on outdated slow boats being overtaken by everybody? what is the fun in sailing a no fun boat?

One thing is for sure, the first group can stop sailing as a mean for cruising and opt to cruise in another way and the second group can stop cruising with a boat...but not sailing. They will continue to sail a fast and fun boat, maybe a daysailer, because sailing is what they like, some even more than cruising.

And this is not about money but about lifestyle and personal choices. Take as example all those guys that go for a circumnavigation or extensive cruising using old inexpensive adapted race boats, or cruiser racers and there are many of them. The first type regarding this ones think they are just roving mad guys

Regards

Paulo

 

[smackdaddy]

I've always liked and respected the Fuzzles. I wish them very well and intend to keep following their adventures.

Go The Fuzzles!

I will, however, disagree with this:

Boats are meant to be sailed and lived on, not to be used as an alternative to a car.

For us, the boat IS a car or an airplane. It's the thing that takes us to places we can't drive to - on a highway that is much, much more interesting and adventuresome than a highway. And it does so when WE'RE ready to do it.

I have ZERO desire to live on a boat. And at this point, I have ZERO desire to continuously sail around the world for years.

But we will use our boat to take us to interesting places. And when we get tired of that - we'll sell it. THAT'S where I think Pat gets a bit confused. Their boat was a home that, despite the sentimentality of it, was just too much trouble.

 

[sailordave]

This is something I wrestle with as I debate what it is exactly I want to do w/ the next chapter in my life. I *can* retire and move on anytime I want now.
I have thought about going cruising. Wife is game too. BUT... I've always been a SAILOR. I love to sail. Just take off and go. And seeing new places is nice; just don't want to stop for months at a time.
Having just spent 3 weeks in the company of some full time cruisers (Transatlantic crossing) who were also on the boat w/ me I got a very good look at the life from their perspective. The boat is their home. They don't have a house back here.
And while I would definitely want to spend some time doing land travel in the various countries/ports, I don't see myself spending more than a week or so anchored out somewhere or going back and forth to the same couple of places for multiple seasons.
I can however see us going and cruising CT/RI/MA for a summer and moving on every day or two. Maybe even going south to BDA after that and continuing on to the Caribbean for a season.
But there are a lot of other things I want to do. Build another house (smaller this time!), Build a small runabout. See the last 4 states I haven't seen yet.

Anyway, good on the Bumfuzzles for not being afraid to call it quits and move on to something else. Takes a certain amount of courage to know when to stop.

 

[Donna_F]

sailordave, why is how long you stop at any one location an issue? If you want to stay a weekend or a week, it's up to you. If you love a town and want to immerse yourself in the local atmosphere for a month, that's up to you. Isn't that part of the point of the lifestyle?

 

[kwaltersmi]

I've always respected Pat and Ali's candor. They've shown it again with their latest post and decision.

Looking forward to continuing to follow their blog. Great writing, great photos, great story!

 

[capt vimes]

paulo and sailordave have it nailed down for me...
my lady and myself we are actually planing a circumnavigation and i just feel it in my water that this is going to be a very hard test for our relationship...
while i also like to see different places, ports and pubs, beautiful bays and like to meet different people or not, i could get bored if moored in one place after a couple of hours...
i want to go round cape horn - east to west - which scares my lady really badly...
i want to race in the sydney hobbart at least once which my lady does not understand and already threatens me with staying in sydney for the time...
i want to do long passages and my lady is always only talking about bay hoping...
at least i can choose the boat i like, because my lady is not interested in that as long as the interior is to her liking...
money is right now the only restriction and a major one too...

 

[PCP]

paulo and sailordave have it nailed down for me...
my lady and myself we are actually planing a circumnavigation and i just feel it in my water that this is going to be a very hard test for our relationship...
while i also like to see different places, ports and pubs, beautiful bays and like to meet different people or not, i could get bored if moored in one place after a couple of hours...
i want to go round cape horn - east to west - which scares my lady really badly...
i want to race in the sydney hobbart at least once which my lady does not understand and already threatens me with staying in sydney for the time...
i want to do long passages and my lady is always only talking about bay hoping...
at least i can choose the boat i like, because my lady is not interested in that as long as the interior is to her liking...
money is right now the only restriction and a major one too...

I guess our wives are much alike and that you and me are not that different.

What is the boat you have ?

I have been cruising for many years with my wife and now that I have all the time to sail things become clear and a kind of compromise was reached: kind off, I can do passages with her but for no more than about 3 days and we don't stay more than a day in a place unless we both agree (and that is very rare)....well I hope with time she gets more used to bad weather and the boundaries will extend. For now I guess I cannot do more than 3000Nm, for season but I am satisfied with what I got. I have fun anyway.

Regards

Paulo

 

[capta]

"The others try to have a boat as fast and fun to sail as they can and that means many times a more modern and expensive boat (or a very spartan old racing boat), expensive sails. That means also to change boat from time to time for a better and more rewarding faster one."

PCP, I'm afraid that I'm going to have to disagree with you on that. IMO, most of us who cruise full time are not nearly as interested in speed and performance as we are in a comfortable home. Our money is not spent on a newer boat, but something that will give us the most for it, in livability, ease of handling and maintenance. New sails are a huge expenditure on a cruising budget and I know of no cruiser that spends more than necessary on a well made cruising sail. None of us buy the esoteric materials and cuts the racers use, nor do we have to treat them with the kid gloves those sails require.
As for changing boats for better performance and speed, that's just silly. We spend years getting our boats to suit our needs, little improvements here and there; why would we sell a boat we've just gotten as close to perfect, as we can (within our budget), for another knot or two of speed? We like sailing and being out there on the water; what's the hurry?
Many full time cruisers do not have a home; our boat is our home. It must be comfortable under way AND in an anchorage, not the fastest, best performing vessel on the water.
Perhaps you are really Bill Gates, writing under a pseudonym, and can afford those fancy sails and to change your boat from time to time, but believe me, we will not be selling this boat for any high performance, "very spartan old racing boat", any time soon.

 

[PCP]

Quoting PCP:"The others try to have a boat as fast and fun to sail as they can and that means many times a more modern and expensive boat (or a very spartan old racing boat), expensive sails. That means also to change boat from time to time for a better and more rewarding faster one."

PCP, I'm afraid that I'm going to have to disagree with you on that. IMO, most of us who cruise full time are not nearly as interested in speed and performance as we are in a comfortable home. Our money is not spent on a newer boat, but something that will give us the most for it, in livability, ease of handling and maintenance. ... We like sailing and being out there on the water; what's the hurry?

...Perhaps you are really Bill Gates, writing under a pseudonym, and can afford those fancy sails and to change your boat from time to time, but believe me, we will not be selling this boat for any high performance, "very spartan old racing boat", any time soon
....

Well, that was precisely what I said. That there are two types of cruisers and that they have a lot of difficulty to understand each others desires needs and life styles. Your post is an example of that. That's not about hurry its about having fun while sailing, the type of fun that only a very fast boat can gave.

You don't have to live in the boat or to cruise full time to be a cruiser, at least while you are cruising and for what I understood regarding the average of NM done by year some that don't live in the boat and that don't cruise full time make more miles that some that live in the boat. Besides in the winter most that live in the boat don't cruise significantly but stay at the marina waiting for the good weather to come.

I believe you are right when you say that "most of us who cruise full time are not nearly as interested in speed and performance as we are in a comfortable home.", yes probably most but not all, some will trade some comfort for sailing fun. I know of an American that is in France waiting for his boat to be finished to live aboard. The boat is a Pogo 12.50, difficult to find a faster and more fun to sail cruiser on the trade winds. Certainly not the most comfortable boat to live in, but it seems enough comfort for him and plenty of space

Regards

Paulo

 

[youmeandthed]

there are far more than two types of cruisers......

 

[outbound]

Remain a bit confused. Don't understand why you can't have a boat that sails well and cruise and hang out in interesting places as long as you want and weather permits. Don't understand why you can't have the biggest boat you can afford/handle and the smallest house that covers your needs. At present with the add ons the boat costs about as much as the house. Thinking of downsizing the house. But will live in each as mood/need strikes us.
Business of joy of sailing also strikes me as odd. Mean to say when I'm on a old gaff rigged boat and tweek it a bit to get a 1/10 kt more it's less fun that when I'm doing the same on a racing one off. Posh- that's just silly. Like saying going 40mph on a KTM through the whoops is less enjoyable then going a 140mph through the flats on a duc. Or riding a Brough Superior is less fun then a Benelli. Agree some cruisers like sailing and some cruisers are going to buy a trawler or RV pretty soon. But think most cruisers like to sail otherwise why would they put up with all the headaches and expense.

 

[capt vimes]

I guess our wives are much alike and that you and me are not that different.

glad to here that...
aren't we all our ladies slaves with interludes of freedom?

What is the boat you have ?

i have none... and what for should i have one?
i am living and working 600 km away from the next seaside with only 5 weeks of holidays a year...
i am better off to charter boats for 3-4 weeks - nothing to worry about, no docking fees, no maintenance or repair costs, just book and sail for a lot less than an own boat would cost me money and time only for a few weeks sailing...
the boat i am buying, i am living on and sail!

 

[sailordave]

sailordave, why is how long you stop at any one location an issue? If you want to stay a weekend or a week, it's up to you. If you love a town and want to immerse yourself in the local atmosphere for a month, that's up to you. Isn't that part of the point of the lifestyle?

Donna you're absolutely right. I just don't know if I want to be a fulltime liveaboard cruiser. Fact is, the boat that is tricked out for THAT kind of cruising is generally (and I emphasize GENERALLY) loaded down w/ a lot more stuff than I like to have on a boat. Not that you can't cruise a la Minimalistic, but I won't want a boat that takes a lot of time prepping/caring for just to go to sea. And the fact is if your more into SAILING you don't really need a lot of systems/stuff.

I fully intend to stop and smell the roses and enjoy the scenery for as long as I want to stay, I just don't see me putting down roots in an anchorage for very long! And after being at see for 12 days on a mostly monotonous crossing (a good thing when your in the middle of the ocean!) I also realize that a boat you have to SAIL as opposed to pushing a few buttons on the autopilot and electric winches is more my type. I missed the tactile interface w/ the boat and actually SAILING the boat.

Current boat is really pretty good for the way I use it. Only has depth, knot meter and analog wind. Autopilot but no refrig or windlass. Given a choice I'd take the windlass before refrig. so I would be less likely to kill my back. Probably will get a tablet for backup navigation next year. Still like my charts and handheld GPS. Sorry for the thread drift.

Bottom line is I identify myself more as a sailor than a cruiser; it'll take some time for me to make that transition I'm sure.

 

[bigdogandy]

I tell you what, stirring up all of this kind of controversy is just the kind of behavior I've come to expect from those Bumfuzzles...the nerve of them to go and do something that makes them happy, and in plain sight of all the rest of us!

I am one of those sailors that loves sailing. I have an old worn out boat right and I love sailing it. I had a Nacra 5.2 when I was a kid that was breathtakingly fast, and I loved sailing it. Same for the sunfish, American 16 daysailor, Irwin 25, and Morgan OI41 I've spent time on - enjoying sailing for me isn't nearly as much about the boat as it is about harnessing the power of the wind to move along. And where I get my buzz from sailing is probably totally different from lots of other sailors........

There are way more than two kinds of cruisers, too, in my opinion. I like to "cruise" on the weekends, and sometimes don't even have to leave the dock to do it. Spending the night on the boat at the marina counts as an overnite cruise for me. Some folks don't consider it cruising unless they're gone for months, or go across oceans, or whatever. Some go in awesome new yachts and some go in leaky old tubs. Some drink rum all day and some don't. Some sail with hot chicks, some with their kids, some with their fears. All kinds of cruisers. My wife and I lived in a motorhome for a few years, and when we were going places we considered that cruising.

Didn't intend to rant like that, but sometime you just gotta let it out, right?

I have a lot of respect for the Bumfuzzles in that they are doing their thing, having fun, and sharing their experiences with the rest of us in a way that is entertaining and informative. Long live the Bumfuzzles, whether they are "cruisers" or not!

 

[outbound]

Of course they're cruisers. And wish them the best. Really like Bruce Van Sants description of cruisers in the thornless way book.

 

[chall03]

Who would of thought that posting pictures of pretty boats on the internet apparently makes you a sailor, and that sailing around the world apparently makes you a non sailor.

Go figure.

 

[PCP]

Remain a bit confused. Don't understand why you can't have a boat that sails well and cruise and hang out in interesting places as long as you want and weather permits. Don't understand why you can't have the biggest boat you can afford/handle and the smallest house that covers your needs. At present with the add ons the boat costs about as much as the house. Thinking of downsizing the house. But will live in each as mood/need strikes us.
Business of joy of sailing also strikes me as odd. Mean to say when I'm on a old gaff rigged boat and tweek it a bit to get a 1/10 kt more it's less fun that when I'm doing the same on a racing one off. Posh- that's just silly. Like saying going 40mph on a KTM through the whoops is less enjoyable then going a 140mph through the flats on a duc. Or riding a Brough Superior is less fun then a Benelli. Agree some cruisers like sailing and some cruisers are going to buy a trawler or RV pretty soon. But think most cruisers like to sail otherwise why would they put up with all the headaches and expense.

That's like cruising (on land) on a Ferrari or on a 4 wheel drive: You can also perfect the trajectories on a twisting road on a four wheel drive but it is not the same thing as on a Ferrari isn't it? Maybe for you the fun will be the same, not for me By the way last year I drove in Italy a brand new Ferrari on a mountain road ...well, those grins are not enough to express the fun...just the sound of that 12 cylinder reeving up was music for my ears.

Regards

Paulo

 

[PCP]

... Long live the Bumfuzzles, whether they are "cruisers" or not!

They are cruisers but now they cruise on a bus and don't use sail for cruising anymore.

regards

Paulo

 

[PCP]

Who would of thought that posting pictures of pretty boats on the internet apparently makes you a sailor, and that sailing around the world apparently makes you a non sailor.

Go figure.

I never said that they were not sailors. I quoted them:"That trip is for people that enjoy sailing...".Obviously this means that they use sailing as a mean for cruising and not primarily for the fun of it. Many sailors sail just for the fun of it others like to cruise and like also to have fun sailing while doing it.

There are car drivers that have drove their car hundreds of thousands of miles, that voyaged in it and don't like to drive. They use the car as a mean of transportation and even for cruising and voyaging because they like to cruise and voyage not because they like to drive. They are drivers nonetheless.

No, posting pictures does not make me a sailor but having done well over 20000nm while sailing and cruising for many years does and I don't just sail as a mean to go somewhere, I truly enjoy sailing just for the fun of it, even while cruising.

Regards

Paulo