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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, this is a question for all the pros out there. I am looking at purchasing my first sailboat. I have narrowed it down to what I think is ideal but have a couple of questions.

What I am looking at is a Hughes 28, 1980. It has been cared for and has everything I think I need. However, when I research online I can't seem to find a Hughes 28. I can find a 26 and a 29, but no info on a 28. Does this make sense? Is there such a thing - I have seen it in person and inspected it, but of course didn't actually measure it. Why would there be no info anywhere about this?

Additionally what are your opinions about this for a first boat, and are there things particular to this boat I should look for?

Thanks
 

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Read this:

Hughes Northstar Forum - History

and this:

Columbia Yacht Owners Association

try to determine if it is a Hughes, a Northstar, or a Hughes-Columbia.

then go back to the boat and get the HIN (Hull Identification Number). It should be etched into the fibreglass somewhere on or near the transom.

Come back here and post the HIN and you'll be able to find out when the boat was built.

See you soon :)
 

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I have a Northstar 1000 which is almost identical to the Hughes 31 built after US Steel left the game. Love my boat. Sails well, keeps a good track, stiff and plays well in the waves.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
28 hughes

Ok, here is what happened. This guy, clearly a boat lover extended the stern by 36 inches when he refinished the hull above the water line making a much bigger cockpit. It is actually a 26 Hughes, however it is now 28 feet long...appears to be an excellent job, no doubt about it and in great shape.

Should this be a concern?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
28 hughes

Also, it has a refurbished/replaced Evinrude saildrive gas/oil mix 30hp detuned to 15hp with 4hours of use on it. I have read crazy stories of hatred and disdain for saildrives, but am lost on this one? Why is this good or bad?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Wanted to post a photo, but not able to ...too big apparently? Anyway it is not in Port Dover...it is in ottawa
 

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You can not post a pic until you have 10 posts. Or link directly for that matter.

Marty
 

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When I read of all of these modifications to the boat and motor they make me nervous. Here is why...

Unless there is something spectacular and unique about the Hughes model that was extended, then I think that the reason it was extended was because the owner wanted a bigger boat but could not afford to buy one. Therefore, he/she reasoned it would be cheaper to extend the current vesel.


Doing something like extending a boat by three feet is major structural work. It's a project that needs a lot of time and space, not to mention money. Any bonds between old and new fibreglass/epoxy are going to be suspect. The strength of a secondary bond rarely approaches the strength of primary ones. If the individual who extended the boat had done it properly, it would have cost many thousands of dollars, and would have been much more expensive an exercise than buying a longer boat to begin with.

Even when they are properly done, changes of that type rarely result in a craft that is balanced. The center of gravity is no longer where the sail plan's center of effort needs it to be. The result is a boat that will not sail well, and may even be unsafe.

Ditto for the motor. There is a lot of bad feeling out there for saildrives - some of it deserved and some not so deserved. What can be safely assumed though, is that the likelihood of an engine being a problem increase with each non-standard modification made to it. I believe that the Hughes 26's were sold with OMC Saildrives and that the OMC (Evinrude) is the brand that hs generated the most negative emotion. You first clue is that it has four hours on it. I am sure the vendor is hoping that it runs for another four or so until he an offload the craft.

If you are being seduced by a low, low price for a 28 foot boat - shake your head. This is not a 28 foot boat. This is a disabled 26 footer - someone's make work project.

If you want a good deal on a 28 foot boat, look in Michigan. It is a simple matter to get the boat up to Ontario, and you will get far, far more for your money there right now than you will anywhere in Canada.

Don't mean to burst your bubble but the vendor is not selling a "Hughes 28". They are trying to salvage some dollars from an expensive mistake.

Good Luck ! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Price flexibility

Ok, that is great info, thanks...I hadn't considered any of what you were able to point out. Great to have my eyes openned by someone who knows what they are talking about, thanks...

The other boat I am looking at is a 28 San Juan 1980...(a true 28!) I have seen the hull and deck, but not the interior first hand (that will happen tonight)....I guess what I am lloking for advice on here is what kind of play in price has there been over the past year. A broker was telling me that boats are selling for around 85% of asking price and then a friend who just bought one was saying that he paid about 60% - it seems to be all over the map.
 

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Are you in Kingston Wa? If so, there should be MANY SJ 28's around as tey were built in Kent? Not a bad boat, looked at that on myself before buying the Jeanneau I have.

What are you planning to do with this boat? What type of interior etc. I am realizing this is going to be a first boat. Are you going to try and race maybe? if so, Edmonds across the way has races, along with cruises. I a recalling 2 or 3 members keeping there boats in Kingston.

There are plenty of boats available depending upon what you want to do, that will fit in a price range.

Marty
 

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I would be leary of trusting a brokers opinion on selling price. When you use a broker, you are automatically adding 10% to the cost. Brokers have to get paid and that money has to come from somewhere. I'm not saying the broker is wrong, just saying to use a bit of common sense.

Pricing is all over the map. I've seen variances on the same year and model with similar equipment as much as 30%. Here is what I think is a reasonable way to come up with a fair market price.

Look at Nada, BUC for suggested value. Keep in mind, these tend to be on the low side. If you have access to Boat Wizard (usually through a broker) you can get an idea of what these boats have actually been selling for recently.

Now comes the confusing part. After arming yourself with this information, you have to figure out what the boat is worth to YOU. Has the owner installed brand new electronics that are up to date and well cared for? That's one less thing for you to worry about. Has equipment been added that you deem necessary? If its already there, that's less time and effort to you to outfit the boat. Does the owner have maintenance records for you to look at? This could also up the value as you will be aware of any ongoing problems and you will have a better idea if in fact the boat has been "meticulously maintained". Many owners claim this, then can't tell you the last time they had the rigging inspected or the engine serviced.

In my situation, time is money. I am willing to pay a bit more for a truly turn key boat. Likewise, if a boat requires a lot of work to bring it into usable condition I will make my offering price reflective of this. Your mileage may vary, but I think this is a realisitc to go about purchasing a boat. Hopefully, you find a realistic seller!
 

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Looking at the boats on the link below, it seems that they are offered between 10 and 20K. Generally, if there are a lot of boats of the same vintage being offered privately for the same general price, you can figure that the market value is within 25% of that. BUT that is only a generalisation.

SJ's FOR SALE

In these times you have no way of knowing what a vendor's financial situation may be and there may well be deals to be had.

So figure out how much money you have to pay for a boat. Find a boat you like. Estimate the appropriate selling price based the prices of like boats. Deduct the cost of obviously needed repairs you spot and the repairs the surveyor points out (don't even THINK of buying a boat without a survey). Offer this to the vendor.

Always be prepared to walk away - there is no such thing as an irreplaceable boat.

Good Luck ! :)



SJ's FOR SALE
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks

Excellent advice and help thanks.

To answer sailorman's question, I am in Kingston, Ontario, Canada, not Washington unfortunately. A good selection of boats to be had, but this is the sailing capital of Canada (lake ontario) so, the prices seem to reflect that. Now when I look at Toronto prices, they seem a bit lower, but I have to ask myself if it is reasonable to make a trip to see a bot, then survey it, then go back for a sea test and pay for hauling in and out and then have it shipped to where I am (about 300kms away) and then pay to have it launched......you get the picture.

As for the San Juan it was in great shape, 2 sails, both 1 year old....excellent selection of electronics, ening a bit older but apparently well maintained. A surveyor actually owned this one before the current owner. The current owner has already purchased and moored a 40ft Catalina 2002. So my read on this is that he has another boat already, does not want two, has the obvious means not to worry too much about a couple thousand dollars (CAD).

Now, he wants 23900, I want to go with something along the lines of 17000, so I am pretty sure it is not even worth the offer, but I may get brave, we'll see.
 

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I think you're on the right track giving a pass on the Hughes "whatever" it was.. That boat was already a pinched-ends design, can't imagine what they had in mind extending it, or what it may have looked like. Also, refurbished or not, that particular engine is a future headache... pretty much guaranteed.

SJ 28s are roomy boats that do fairly will in PHRF fleets when well handled. However in today's market conditions it seems to me that the asking price is high, I'd expect the asking to be about what you're thinking of offering. But again, we're on the West Coast, not in the so-called Sailing Capital of Canada (we might debate that statement one day! ;) .. but I admit I'm biased.)

You should have a pretty good (if a bit overpriced) selection there.. don't get fixated on any one boat early on. Best of luck.
 

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I would suggest an offer of $12,000 max.

There is a huge number of boats for sale right now on Lake Ontario. A San Juan 28 in Bristol condition wouldn't sell much higher.
Make sure you get a professional survey done first!!!
Why would you say you would have it shipped down to Kingston?? Hell - that's a beautiful sail!!
 

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To answer sailorman's question, I am in Kingston, Ontario, Canada, not Washington unfortunately.
Not my question...trust me there is nothing unfortunate about not living in the US ;)

$17,000 sounds fair to me. Tell the vendor that's what you have and let him know that you're still looking at other potentials. Then walk away and let him think for a while. Chances are that he'll call you.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
There is a huge number of boats for sale right now on Lake Ontario. A San Juan 28 in Bristol condition wouldn't sell much higher.
Make sure you get a professional survey done first!!!
Why would you say you would have it shipped down to Kingston?? Hell - that's a beautiful sail!!
12K??? Seriously? I would jump at that!
No matter what boat I will have a survey done - no doubt about it.

As for shipping to Kingston - this would be my first boat. I have experience racing albacores and lasers but that was ages ago, in my teen years....so I don't want to risk my first voyage on a toronto-kingtson sail, although I want to be comfortable enough by the end of the summer.

So back to the price though, are you saying that this kind of price can be had on Lake Ontario? It seems absurdly low, but if I could pull that off it would be fantastic.
 

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If you can sail an Albacore in Kingston waters -

you can easily navigate a keelboat down to Kingston.
I imagine you have sailed in the Canadian Olympic Regatta Kingston (CORK)? We may have raced against each other at one time - I was commodore of the CAA back in 1993 to 1996.
Here's a link to the Grampian website so you can check out some pricing - index These boats were built in Oakville and they have an excellent record for racing and cruising.
BTW - a Grampian G26 will beat the pants off a SJ-28 any day of the week (I have done it many times). The G-26 has the interior room of a 30 footer.
Hope this is of some help.
 
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